repasting Best Thermal Compound for Laptops?

[noniq]

I've been occasionally repasting both my personal Laptops and some devices at work. But I've always run into issues: The temps are great for the first couple days, but just a few weeks / months after repasting, the CPU is back to old temps. One year later, I even had a few devices crashing because of the CPU overheating under load.

 

After some googling, it turns out that the regular thermal paste (Arctix MX4 / MX5) that I've been using, isn't ideal for direct die application. I suppose it doesn't as well, because of pump out.

Reddit recommends to go with high viscosity thermal compound, such as Gelid GC Extreme or Honeywell PTM7950.

 

What is generally considered the best price/performance thermal compound for laptops?

 

And is there a difference in what I should use between repasting office and gaming laptops?

[Rayyan9400]

And is there a difference in what I should use between repasting office and gaming laptops? no, its the same usually

 

What is generally considered the best price/performance thermal compound for laptops?  anything thats liquid metal and has good reviews

 

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, noniq said:

I've been occasionally repasting both my personal Laptops and some devices at work. But I've always run into issues: The temps are great for the first few days, but just a couple weeks / months after repasting, the CPU is back to old temps. One year later, I even had a few devices crashing because of the CPU overheating under load.

 

After some googling, it turns out that the regular thermal paste (Arctix MX4 / MX5) that I've been using, isn't ideal for direct die application. Reddit recommends to go with high viscosity thermal compound, such as Gelid GC Extreme or Honeywell PTM7950.

 

What is generally considered the best price/performance thermal compound for laptops?

 

And is there a difference in what I should use between repasting office and gaming laptops?

Anything non conductive, artic silver 5 is in comparison which can give you problems with direct die pasting. Like when your GPU doesn't POST after swapping coolers, take the cooler off and see a strand of Artic Silver 5 just bridging to one of the capacitors around the GPU. Break strand and it POSTed. 

 

It really depends on convenience and price. It genuinely doesn't matter outside of cringey min-maxing unless you're doing XOC-lite overclocking. I've either been using whatever tubes I get with coolers and/or Corsair's XTM50 because I can drive to my local Best Buy and grab it if I run out.

[noniq]

4 minutes ago, Rayyan9400 said:

And is there a difference in what I should use between repasting office and gaming laptops? no, its the same usually

 

What is generally considered the best price/performance thermal compound for laptops?  anything thats liquid metal and has good reviews

Oh yeah, I read that too. But I think I don't want to use liquid metal due to the risk of damaging the devices. At least not for work laptops. 

[Rayyan9400]

3 minutes ago, noniq said:

Oh yeah, I read that too. But I think I don't want to use liquid metal due to the risk of damaging the devices. At least not for work laptops. 

should be fine, aslong as its not gallium based or other elements that pcs dont like

[Maloo]

I use Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut on my desktop PC at home it's not exactly cheap but it got great thermal conductivity and long life might be overkill for a work laptop but you won't have to redo it for a long time.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

Either gd007 or gc extreme

 

Gd007 is dirt cheap and works very well in my experience

 

Gc extreme is one of the cheaper high end thermal pastes

 

I prefer the former cause 30g is like 5$ so when it comes to direct die i just go overkill with the thermal paste to make sure the entire die gets covered, no harm in overkill when 30g is 5$, maybe id care abit more with a more expensive thermal paste but with a cheap paste go nuts. Gd900 is around 3$ for a 30g tube/tub but seems like i got a bad batch or something cause my gd900 is kinda crap (30g tub, maybe i should have gone for a tube). I do a decent amount of testing so thats why id want 30g

[Zando_]

58 minutes ago, Rayyan9400 said:

should be fine, aslong as its not gallium based or other elements that pcs dont like

That is what liquid metal is. I haven't seen any sold that isn't gallium. 

23 minutes ago, BigHoss said:

I use Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut on my desktop PC at home it's not exactly cheap but it got great thermal conductivity and long life might be overkill for a work laptop but you won't have to redo it for a long time.

^^ I use TG Kryonaut or Noctua H2, both thicker pastes. Thermal Grizzly's stuff has been great in my experience. 

[manikyath]

1 hour ago, Rayyan9400 said:

anything thats liquid metal and has good reviews

goodness f*cking god no..

 

liquid metal in a laptop is actually dangerous if the laptop isnt designed for it, and/or specific precautions are taken.

 

1 hour ago, noniq said:

The temps are great for the first couple days, but just a few weeks / months after repasting, the CPU is back to old temps. One year later, I even had a few devices crashing because of the CPU overheating under load.

how about checking for dust? this sounds like a dust issue to me.

[noniq]

5 minutes ago, manikyath said:

how about checking for dust? this sounds like a dust issue to me.

I don't think thats the reason. If dust was the problem, repasting wouldn't fix it for a couple weeks and it is unlikely that all our laptops suddenly got too dusty 2 weeks after repasting.

7 minutes ago, Zando_ said:

That is what liquid metal is. I haven't seen any sold that isn't gallium. 

^^ I use TG Kryonaut or Noctua H2, both thicker pastes. Thermal Grizzly's stuff has been great in my experience. 

I heard Kryonaut is bad in environments where temps frequently exceed 80°C which is quite common for laptops.

25 minutes ago, Somerandomtechyboi said:

Either gd007 or gc extreme

 

Gd007 is dirt cheap and works very well in my experience

 

Gc extreme is one of the cheaper high end thermal pastes

 

I prefer the former cause 30g is like 5$ so when it comes to direct die i just go overkill with the thermal paste to make sure the entire die gets covered, no harm in overkill when 30g is 5$, maybe id care abit more with a more expensive thermal paste but with a cheap paste go nuts. Gd900 is around 3$ for a 30g tube/tub but seems like i got a bad batch or something cause my gd900 is kinda crap (30g tub, maybe i should have gone for a tube). I do a decent amount of testing so thats why id want 30g

Thank you, I read about GC Extreme. Will also check the Gd007!

[manikyath]

Just now, noniq said:

I don't think thats the reason. If dust was the problem, repasting wouldn't fix it for a couple weeks and it is unlikely that all our laptops suddenly got too dusty 2 weeks after repasting.

likewise, if you didnt completely bung up the paste application, it shouldnt screw up in 2 weeks time.

 

in fact.. any acceptable paste should last pretty much the lifetime of the machine.

[Zando_]

2 minutes ago, noniq said:

I heard Kryonaut is bad in environments where temps frequently exceed 80°C which is quite common for laptops.

Looks like the OG grey one (what I normally use and haven't had problems with) can: 

 

Tis fixed on the new pink colored Kryonaut Extreme. 

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

in fact.. any acceptable paste should last pretty much the lifetime of the machine.

^^ Also worth noting that almost every laptop is going to run hot. No matter the shenanigans you pull, the bottleneck is usually the heatpipes/heatsink not being capable of removing enough heat, it's pretty rare that the major issue is the transfer from CPU/GPU to the heatpipes. I'm not sure why the temp would be lower at first and go back up again after a bit though, I assume something with how the paste settles in. 

[Biohazard777]

18 minutes ago, manikyath said:

how about checking for dust? this sounds like a dust issue to me.

It sounds exactly like paste pump out or break down to me...

 

7 minutes ago, manikyath said:

likewise, if you didnt completely bung up the paste application, it shouldnt screw up in 2 weeks time.

 

in fact.. any acceptable paste should last pretty much the lifetime of the machine.

Do you own a laptop? Thermal paste on a toasty bare die can easily degrade or pump out in 2 weeks.

@noniq Do not use liquid metal... some of the replies here are, well worse than bad.
You will get a lot of replies from desktop only users, who think their desktop logic applies to laptops somehow.

Anyhow, for me personally Kryonaut didn't work... I mean no wonder it has thermal breakdown temp of 80° C and for laptops it is pretty common to go over that. Had to re-paste after 2 weeks (10c drop in performance).

NT-H1 was better, but 3 months and again had to re-paste (10c drop in performance)
Ended up using: be quiet DC1 and sure it underperformed by about 2c in the begining, but that one kept the same performance for well over a year.

[noniq]

8 minutes ago, manikyath said:

likewise, if you didnt completely bung up the paste application, it shouldnt screw up in 2 weeks time.

 

in fact.. any acceptable paste should last pretty much the lifetime of the machine.

Well, 2 weeks was exaggerated and I don't think there is much you can do wrong when repasting. That's why I said I suspect pump out might be the reason.

 

Immediately after repasting: Temps are way better and noticeably less fan spin.

2-6 weeks later: Fan noise and temps slowly keep crawling up.

2-6 months later: Temps reach / exceed pre-repaste levels, fan noise keeps increasing.

1+ years: Temps much higher and noticeably more fan noise than with 4yr old stock thermal compound. A few devices suffer harsh thermal throttling or even shutdown due to overheating.

[manikyath]

2 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

Do you own a laptop? Thermal paste on a toasty bare die can easily degrade or pump out in 2 weeks.

i've spent 6 years doing support for some 500-odd laptops.. majority of them lasted 6+ years, never once was thermal paste an issue.

[Biohazard777]

Just now, manikyath said:

i've spent 6 years doing support for some 500-odd laptops.. majority of them lasted 6+ years, never once was thermal paste an issue.

And you never heard of pump out and break down?
Were they all business level 15W CPUs without a dedicated GPU to up the heat?

[noniq]

5 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

It sounds exactly like paste pump out or break down to me...

 

Do you own a laptop? Thermal paste on a toasty bare die can easily degrade or pump out in 2 weeks.

@noniq Do not use liquid metal... some of the replies here are, well worse than bad.
You will get a lot of replies from desktop only users, who think their desktop logic applies to laptops somehow.

Anyhow, for me personally Kryonaut didn't work... I mean no wonder it has thermal breakdown temp of 80° C and for laptops it is pretty common to go over that. Had to re-paste after 2 weeks (10c drop in performance).

NT-H1 was better, but 3 months and again had to re-paste (10c drop in performance)
Ended up using: be quiet DC1 and sure it underperformed by about 2c in the begining, but that one kept the same performance for well over a year.

When I first repasted my own laptop I figured I just did something wrong, but when similar things happened to the notebooks I repasted at work, I figured it may be the thermal compunds fault.

It's a bit confusing because even on Reddit threads that specificly mention laptops, you still get the usual recommendations like Arctic or Kryonaut.

While I'm not 100% sure, pump out seemed to be the most likely reason for the issues I encountered. 

 

Thanks for your input!

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Biohazard777 said:

And you never heard of pump out and break down?
Were they all business level 15W CPUs without a dedicated GPU to up the heat?

not all of them, but most of them ran max turbo for most of their lifespan.

 

but here's the thing, if those office bangers running at 95°c because max turbo dont ruin their paste, yoru gaming cpu running at 95°c shouldnt either.. because 95°c is 95°c.

 

and if your laptop gets such insane thermal cycles that it wrecks the paste in months, you need to RMA that thing yesterday, because that is a design flaw like i've never seen one. these things (legally have to) come with a 2 year warranty at least in the EU, so if the stock paste doesnt last 2 years, every single one of them is gonna come on RMA. does that sound reasonable to you?

[noniq]

8 minutes ago, Biohazard777 said:

And you never heard of pump out and break down?
Were they all business level 15W CPUs without a dedicated GPU to up the heat?

I experienceed this even on U-Series CPU, I believe this is due to those laptops often having very passive fan curves, so the CPU often briefly hits 95 degrees briefly (e.g. when launching an application) because the system prefers to stay quiet. So you have these frequent jumps in temperature between 50/60 and 95 degrees that you don't have on a desktop and I assume it also happens less often on gaming notebooks.

[Maloo]

5 minutes ago, noniq said:

I heard Kryonaut is bad in environments where temps frequently exceed 80°C which is quite common for laptops.

Although I don't personally use Kryonaut, my friend does and he has an overclocked 13900k in a Lian Li Dan A4-H20 Mini-ITX Case. After a year of heavy use, he checked the thermal paste and it was still as effective as the day he applied it. This is particularly impressive as we both live in Queensland, Australia where summers can be incredibly hot and humid.

[noniq]

2 minutes ago, manikyath said:

and if your laptop gets such insane thermal cycles that it wrecks the paste in months, you need to RMA that thing yesterday, because that is a design flaw like i've never seen one. these things (legally have to) come with a 2 year warranty at least in the EU, so if the stock paste doesnt last 2 years, every single one of them is gonna come on RMA. does that sound reasonable to you?

Well our Latitudes definitely do that - but since thermal paste degradation wasnt as much of an issue with stock thermal paste it led me to assume there is better thermal compound out there than the Arctic MX4 I smeared on them.

[manikyath]

Just now, noniq said:

Well our Latitudes definitely do that - but since thermal paste degradation wasnt as much of an issue with stock thermal paste it led me to assume there is better thermal compound out there than the Arctic MX4 I smeared on them.

did you properly spread the paste? you should always spread on a bare die. (to ensure the entire die is covered).

 

past that.. MX4 is what i use on pretty much anything, and i've never had issues with it.

[noniq]

1 minute ago, BigHoss said:

Although I don't personally use Kryonaut, my friend does and he has an overclocked 13900k in a Lian Li Dan A4-H20 Mini-ITX Case. After a year of heavy use, he checked the thermal paste and it was still as effective as the day he applied it. This is particularly impressive as we both live in Queensland, Australia where summers can be incredibly hot and humid.

With laptops is a bit of a different story, because you put the thermal compound directly on the CPU die (as opposed to on the lid like in a Desktop PC). Also, Laptops usually operate at much higher temps than Desktops.

[noniq]

11 minutes ago, manikyath said:

did you properly spread the paste? you should always spread on a bare die. (to ensure the entire die is covered).

 

past that.. MX4 is what i use on pretty much anything, and i've never had issues with it.

Yes, I spread the thermal paste with one of those tiny spatulas. I was told it is neccessary because the contact pressure between CPU and heatpipe in a laptop is much lower as opposed to in a Desktop PC.

I also experimented with different amounts because I feared I had used too much, but same story.

 

Is there anything else I could've messed up?

[Maloo]

12 minutes ago, noniq said:

With laptops is a bit of a different story, because you put the thermal compound directly on the CPU die (as opposed to on the lid like in a Desktop PC). Also, Laptops usually operate at much higher temps than Desktops.

that's what my friend had to do with his overclocked 13000k he had to de-lid it and use an EK Quantum Velocity2 Direct Die or the CPU would have just kept reaching its thermal limit such is the life of going with SFF cases the pain isn't worth the smaller footprint imo.