Suggestions for PC Platform Upgrade

[Devastator0]

So, awesome LTT community, I need some help and advice. I recently performed a platform upgrade on a friend's computer using the following components:

 

CPU: i5 13600K

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S Chromax Black

Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming Wifi D4

RAM: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32GB F4-3600C14D-32GTZN (Samsung B.Die RAM)

SSD's: Using old 1TB Samsung 970 Pro + he picked up a 2TB Samsung 980 Pro

GPU: Using his ROG 2080 from old/existing build

PSU: SeaSonic PRIME PX 1300 W 80+ Platinum

 

and it has now given me the itch to upgrade my platform as well (I saw how snappy and extremely stable his new system is), specs are:

 

CPU: i7 9700K at 5Ghz

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X52

Motherboard: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO (WI-FI)

RAM: 2 x Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) CMW32GX4M2C3200C16

SSD's: 2 x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB's

GPU: ROG Strix 3080Ti

PSU: SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000 W 80+ Titanium

 

Now, in terms of me upgrading the platform, I was leaning towards the same CPU as my friend got but I'm genuinely not sure on the motherboard or RAM to go with. Really tossing up between staying on DDR4 and going with the same set(s) or B.Die ram that my friend did or move up to a DDR5 platform. If I do DDR5 though, I legit know nothing about it and not sure what is an equivalent set of RAM to get (is there even B.Die stuff for DDR5?). This is where I really need some direction. I do want to stay on an Intel platform but the RAM point is the main point of contention.

 

Any advice would be more than welcome! Please also let me know if any further info is required.

 

Budget (including currency): ~$2000AUD

Country: Australia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Gaming primarily. Mix of old and newer titles. Star Citizen, Cyberpunk 2077, Stellaris, Fallout 3-NV-4, Horizon Zero Dawn, SWTOR, Crusader Kings 3, Freelancer, Pillars of Eternity etc etc

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Devastator0 said:

Really tossing up between staying on DDR4 and going with the same set(s) or B.Die ram that my friend did or move up to a DDR5 platform

Outside of a handful games, DDR5 is the faster of the two. B die has its place if you're going to be manually tuning the subtimings, but at the same time most tuned DDR5 will still beat out B die in everything but the most latency sensitive workloads. Besides, a decent kit of DDR5 will cost the same (if not slightly less) than a good kit of B die, so you might as well get the newer tech. Only reason I really see to stick to DDR4 with a -K SKU is if you already have a kit, if you're building a whole new system you should go DDR5. 

 

2 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

I legit know nothing about it and not sure what is an equivalent set of RAM to get (is there even B.Die stuff for DDR5?)

There isn't yet a B die equivalent where it does timings and frequency that are legitimately impossible for anything else to come close to, though there likely never will be because B die was such an anomaly in the memory IC space. Right now the two kings for performance are Hynix 16Gb M die and A die, with Hynix 24Gb M die potentially being even better (very little is known about 24Gb M die other than it clocks super high). 16Gb M die does tighter timings than A die, mainly tRFC, tRTP, and tRCD, though not by a ton, and M die tends to top out between 6800 and 7400 for max frequency at ambient on a good motherboard. A die does a bit looser timings, though not by a ton, and is consistently higher clocked. On 13th gen where you can clock the memory to the moon, A die is the better option, while on Ryzen 7000 where best case scenario you're doing 6400, M die is the better of the two. 

 

Unfortunately, there aren't really any M die specific memory bins, just Hynix bins. Usually the way you can tell if a kit is Hynix is if the tCL value is about 6-10 ticks below the tRCD value, so kits like 6000 CL32-38-38, 6400 CL32-39-39, 5600 CL30-36-36, 7200 CL34-45-45, etc. For the most part, A die is replacing M die, so you're more likely to get A die, though it's hasn't completely and you don't end up with guaranteed A die until you're at DDR5 6800 or above. I would just aim for a Hynix kit, probably 6000 CL30/32 as they tend to be the cheapest, and figure out what to do with it once you know if it's A die or M die. 

 

Granted, A die vs. M die only matters if you're going to do manual RAM tuning, otherwise just aim for higher clocked kits, though because the 13th gen IMC is a bit sketchy at high speeds I'd stick to 6400MT/s and lower for reliability concerns. 

[Devastator0]

3 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Outside of a handful games, DDR5 is the faster of the two. B die has its place if you're going to be manually tuning the subtimings, but at the same time most tuned DDR5 will still beat out B die in everything but the most latency sensitive workloads. Besides, a decent kit of DDR5 will cost the same (if not slightly less) than a good kit of B die, so you might as well get the newer tech. Only reason I really see to stick to DDR4 with a -K SKU is if you already have a kit, if you're building a whole new system you should go DDR5. 

 

There isn't yet a B die equivalent where it does timings and frequency that are legitimately impossible for anything else to come close to, though there likely never will be because B die was such an anomaly in the memory IC space. Right now the two kings for performance are Hynix 16Gb M die and A die, with Hynix 24Gb M die potentially being even better (very little is known about 24Gb M die other than it clocks super high). 16Gb M die does tighter timings than A die, mainly tRFC, tRTP, and tRCD, though not by a ton, and M die tends to top out between 6800 and 7400 for max frequency at ambient on a good motherboard. A die does a bit looser timings, though not by a ton, and is consistently higher clocked. On 13th gen where you can clock the memory to the moon, A die is the better option, while on Ryzen 7000 where best case scenario you're doing 6400, M die is the better of the two. 

 

Unfortunately, there aren't really any M die specific memory bins, just Hynix bins. Usually the way you can tell if a kit is Hynix is if the tCL value is about 6-10 ticks below the tRCD value, so kits like 6000 CL32-38-38, 6400 CL32-39-39, 5600 CL30-36-36, 7200 CL34-45-45, etc. For the most part, A die is replacing M die, so you're more likely to get A die, though it's hasn't completely and you don't end up with guaranteed A die until you're at DDR5 6800 or above. I would just aim for a Hynix kit, probably 6000 CL30/32 as they tend to be the cheapest, and figure out what to do with it once you know if it's A die or M die. 

 

Granted, A die vs. M die only matters if you're going to do manual RAM tuning, otherwise just aim for higher clocked kits, though because the 13th gen IMC is a bit sketchy at high speeds I'd stick to 6400MT/s and lower for reliability concerns. 

wow, that's an incredibly detailed and helpful response! Thank you so much for that, you are a champion! Given what you've said, would you have a recommendation for a specific kit of DDR5 RAM that you think I should go with? I'm probably looking to have at least 64GB.

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, Devastator0 said:

wow, that's an incredibly detailed and helpful response! Thank you so much for that, you are a champion! Given what you've said, would you have a recommendation for a specific kit of DDR5 RAM that you think I should go with? I'm probably looking to have at least 64GB.

If you're just gaming, you don't need more than 32GB of RAM. More RAM just reduces the max speed you can run, and doesn't really give you any performance benefits, so I don't really see a point given what you're trying to do. 

 

For a specific kit, it would be helpful to know what motherboard you were planning on getting, as that can give some indication of what the max speed you can possibly run. A kit like this should work on most boards, not be too expensive, and that should be Hynix based, though really I wouldn't pay all that much attention to who made the kit or anything like that, more just the speed bin and getting the cheapest of that particular speed bin. 

[Devastator0]

2 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

For a specific kit, it would be helpful to know what motherboard you were planning on getting

Ahhh yes, I realise I didn't say that. I had been considering the ROG Maximus Z790 Hero as I've really just had good experience with the Maximus line of boards in the past but keep in mind I'm not locked into that board. If there's a better option, I'd look at it.

 

3 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

If you're just gaming, you don't need more than 32GB of RAM.

Well, I did say gaming primarily, but I do some VM related stuff for work so the 64GB is more a "nice to have"

[RONOTHAN##]

Just now, Devastator0 said:

Ahhh yes, I realise I didn't say that. I had been considering the ROG Maximus Z790 Hero as I've really just had good experience with the Maximus line of boards in the past but keep in mind I'm not locked into that board. If there's a better option, I'd look at it.

The Z790 Hero is a really good board, but the issue I have with it is that it's also ridiculously expensive. It's more expensive than all CPUs you can put in the socket with the exception of the 13900KS. I would try to find something a bit cheaper, especially if you plan on going for a CPU that isn't a 13900K. If you really want to stick with ASUS, the Z790-E Strix is a very similar board, just without the onboard Thunderbolt and x8/x8 support for multiple GPUs. On the lower end of the spectrum, the Z790 Aorus Elite is pretty good for not a lot of money. The Z690 Force/Carbon (same board, different color scheme) has a pretty similar feature set to the Hero, just without the Thunderbolt for significantly less. The Z790I Edge WiFi is a really good option if you want high speed memory, same with the Z690I Unify. By the time you high boards in the same price range as the Hero, you could already get other boards like the Z690 Dark and Z690 Tachyon, boards that have really good feature sets and will do insanely well for the price, as well as be capable of things like DDR5 8000 with enough tuning. The Z790 Apex also exists on the high end, not much more than the Hero but significantly better and arguably the best board on Z790. 

 

11 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

Well, I did say gaming primarily, but I do some VM related stuff for work so the 64GB is more a "nice to have"

If that's the case, I might say wait a few weeks for the 24GB DDR5 DIMMs to become a bit more commonplace. You could end up getting 48GB of RAM for the same speed as the 32GB kits for not a ton more. If you really need 64GB of RAM, that's fine, though 48GB would be a good sweet spot IMO. A kit like this would be a decent high end pick once it's available in Australia (it might already be, but I'm not Australian and don't really know Australian storefronts so wouldn't know where to check): https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/374/1680070806/F5-7200J3646F24GX2-TZ5RK-QVL

[Why_Me]

57 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

So, awesome LTT community, I need some help and advice. I recently performed a platform upgrade on a friend's computer using the following components:

 

CPU: i5 13600K

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S Chromax Black

Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming Wifi D4

RAM: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32GB F4-3600C14D-32GTZN (Samsung B.Die RAM)

SSD's: Using old 1TB Samsung 970 Pro + he picked up a 2TB Samsung 980 Pro

GPU: Using his ROG 2080 from old/existing build

PSU: SeaSonic PRIME PX 1300 W 80+ Platinum

 

and it has now given me the itch to upgrade my platform as well (I saw how snappy and extremely stable his new system is), specs are:

 

CPU: i7 9700K at 5Ghz

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X52

Motherboard: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO (WI-FI)

RAM: 2 x Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) CMW32GX4M2C3200C16

SSD's: 2 x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB's

GPU: ROG Strix 3080Ti

PSU: SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000 W 80+ Titanium

 

Now, in terms of me upgrading the platform, I was leaning towards the same CPU as my friend got but I'm genuinely not sure on the motherboard or RAM to go with. Really tossing up between staying on DDR4 and going with the same set(s) or B.Die ram that my friend did or move up to a DDR5 platform. If I do DDR5 though, I legit know nothing about it and not sure what is an equivalent set of RAM to get (is there even B.Die stuff for DDR5?). This is where I really need some direction. I do want to stay on an Intel platform but the RAM point is the main point of contention.

 

Any advice would be more than welcome! Please also let me know if any further info is required.

 

Budget (including currency): ~$2000AUD

Country: Australia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Gaming primarily. Mix of old and newer titles. Star Citizen, Cyberpunk 2077, Stellaris, Fallout 3-NV-4, Horizon Zero Dawn, SWTOR, Crusader Kings 3, Freelancer, Pillars of Eternity etc etc

No idea what resolution you game at but if you want to reuses your RAM then here's an option.  

 

https://support.nzxt.com/hc/en-us/articles/4407896253339-How-to-get-the-LGA-1700-Bracket 

NZXT: How to get the LGA 1700 Bracket

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/xNKKHx/msi-pro-z790-a-wifi-ddr4-atx-lga1700-motherboard-pro-z790-a-wifi-ddr4  

MSI PRO Z790-A WIFI DDR4 $339.00

 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-Z790-A-WIFI-DDR4

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product/xz8bt6/intel-core-i7-13700f-21-ghz-16-core-processor-bx8071513700f 

Intel Core i7-13700F $558.00 

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/230491/intel-core-i713700f-processor-30m-cache-up-to-5-20-ghz/specifications.html

[Devastator0]

5 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

Z790-E Strix

Ahh yes, I had seen that board, seems like a good alternative based on what you've said. I completely agree on the cost of the Maximus Hero so doing this will just save me the good ol' dollaridoos.

 

5 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

24GB DDR5 DIMMs

Yeah, so since you brought it up, what's the deal with these 24GB kits?

 

6 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

No idea what resolution you game at but if you want to reuses your RAM then here's an option.

I realise I missed entering that too, my bad. I game at 1440p. I also will be handing down the existing platform to my wife so the current RAM will be going with it.

[PC HEROES]

1 hour ago, Devastator0 said:

So, awesome LTT community, I need some help and advice. I recently performed a platform upgrade on a friend's computer using the following components:

 

CPU: i5 13600K

CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15S Chromax Black

Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming Wifi D4

RAM: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32GB F4-3600C14D-32GTZN (Samsung B.Die RAM)

SSD's: Using old 1TB Samsung 970 Pro + he picked up a 2TB Samsung 980 Pro

GPU: Using his ROG 2080 from old/existing build

PSU: SeaSonic PRIME PX 1300 W 80+ Platinum

 

and it has now given me the itch to upgrade my platform as well (I saw how snappy and extremely stable his new system is), specs are:

 

CPU: i7 9700K at 5Ghz

CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X52

Motherboard: Asus ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO (WI-FI)

RAM: 2 x Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) CMW32GX4M2C3200C16

SSD's: 2 x Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB's

GPU: ROG Strix 3080Ti

PSU: SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000 W 80+ Titanium

 

Now, in terms of me upgrading the platform, I was leaning towards the same CPU as my friend got but I'm genuinely not sure on the motherboard or RAM to go with. Really tossing up between staying on DDR4 and going with the same set(s) or B.Die ram that my friend did or move up to a DDR5 platform. If I do DDR5 though, I legit know nothing about it and not sure what is an equivalent set of RAM to get (is there even B.Die stuff for DDR5?). This is where I really need some direction. I do want to stay on an Intel platform but the RAM point is the main point of contention.

 

Any advice would be more than welcome! Please also let me know if any further info is required.

 

Budget (including currency): ~$2000AUD

Country: Australia

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Gaming primarily. Mix of old and newer titles. Star Citizen, Cyberpunk 2077, Stellaris, Fallout 3-NV-4, Horizon Zero Dawn, SWTOR, Crusader Kings 3, Freelancer, Pillars of Eternity etc etc

Hi... I have been building PCs for 30 years, it's actually my profession. I have made you a build list that I think you are going to love. It;s built for speed and silence. You will however have to use the 3080Ti. It's a really good card to begin with and I see no reason to upgrade it at this point when a platform upgrade will do much better for you.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/7ZnT6r

 

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor  ($485.00 @ BPC Technology)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler  ($94.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX B760-A GAMING WIFI D4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  ($385.00 @ Skycomp Technology)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory  ($190.00 @ I-Tech)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($78.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Storage: PNY CS2241 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($299.00 @ JW Computers)
Video Card: Asus ROG STRIX GAMING OC GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB Video Card  (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case  ($108.00 @ Scorptec)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF1 PE 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($184.11 @ JW Computers)
Case Fan: be quiet! Light Wings PWM high-speed 71.7 CFM 140 mm Fans 3-Pack  ($83.00 @ MSY Technology)
Total: $1906.11

[Herobrine Player]

First off I'll say that your system already seems very fast. I would think a lot of the speed improvements you saw on your friends machine is the fresh OS install that I am assuming he did (Saying this because you mentioned he got a new faster SSD so I assumed).

 

With that being said I would recommend pretty much what PC HEROES recommended with only a few tweaks. I would first switch to a air cooler, you could get something like the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 for nearing half the price and is still overkill for that CPU. I would  also recommend upgrading to a 1TB or preferably a 2TB SSD noting that you don't need a Gen4 drive (Though they are blazing fast). My last note is the $83 on fans seems like a bit much.

[RONOTHAN##]

6 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

Yeah, so since you brought it up, what's the deal with these 24GB kits?

They were released like a month or so ago by both Micron and SK Hynix, and they're trickling into availability in the Western market (Corsair was first with some Micron based kits, G.Skill has some Hynix based kits available now, and TeamGroup should release a couple within a month). I have no idea when Australia will get access to them though, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't within the next month that the Corsair kits showed up. Looks like they already are starting to though: https://www.newegg.com/global/au-en/g-skill-48gb/p/N82E16820374458?quicklink=true

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/61486/corsair-vengeance-48gb-2x24gb-7000mhz-c40-ddr5

 

12 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

Ahh yes, I had seen that board, seems like a good alternative based on what you've said. I completely agree on the cost of the Maximus Hero so doing this will just save me the good ol' dollaridoos.

To be fair, the Z790-E is still really expensive, but it's better than the Hero. I'd still look at some of the competitors from non-ASUS as they can be pretty competitive as well. 

[PC HEROES]

3 minutes ago, Herobrine Player said:

First off I'll say that your system already seems very fast. I would think a lot of the speed improvements you saw on your friends machine is the fresh OS install that I am assuming he did (Saying this because you mentioned he got a new faster SSD so I assumed).

 

With that being said I would recommend pretty much what PC HEROES recommended with only a few tweaks. I would first switch to a air cooler, you could get something like the Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 for nearing half the price and is still overkill for that CPU. I would  also recommend upgrading to a 1TB or preferably a 2TB SSD noting that you don't need a Gen4 drive (Though they are blazing fast). My last note is the $83 on fans seems like a bit much.

The extra fans are to maximize the airflow in the case and I thought I would stick with the same brand as the case. I am fixing the list right now.

[Why_Me]

14 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

I realise I missed entering that too, my bad. I game at 1440p. I also will be handing down the existing platform to my wife so the current RAM will be going with it.

That means an entire new build? If so the gpu alone will eat up almost half your budget.   

[Devastator0]

Just now, Why_Me said:

That means an entire new build? If so the gpu alone will eat up almost half your budget.

Yeah so the only thing I'm carrying across is the GPU, case (Fractal Define R6) & PSU, I have an old 1080Ti in a separate rig so there will be some hardware re-shuffling as I move the existing platform down to my wife.

[Herobrine Player]

6 minutes ago, PC HEROES said:

The extra fans are to maximize the airflow in the case and I thought I would stick with the same brand as the case.

Makes sense, just thought I would point it out.

[PC HEROES]

3 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

Yeah so the only thing I'm carrying across is the GPU, case (Fractal Define R6) & PSU, I have an old 1080Ti in a separate rig so there will be some hardware re-shuffling as I move the existing platform down to my wife.

Hi... I have been building PCs for 30 years, it's actually my profession.I remade the build list, this one is much better. Let me know what you think. If you have any questions please let me know. The jump from i5 to i7 will allow you to do more multitasking like gaming, streaming/recording, and VMs at the same time.

 

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/VQCm6r

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor  ($628.00 @ Austin Computers)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock 4 CPU Cooler  ($94.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX B760-F GAMING WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  ($439.00 @ Centre Com)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory  ($250.80 @ Amazon Australia)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($78.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Storage: PNY CS2241 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($299.00 @ JW Computers)
Video Card: Asus ROG STRIX GAMING OC GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12 GB Video Card  (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case  ($108.00 @ Scorptec)
Power Supply: SeaSonic PRIME Ultra Titanium 1000 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $0.00)
Case Fan: be quiet! Light Wings PWM high-speed 71.7 CFM 140 mm Fans 3-Pack  ($83.00 @ MSY Technology)
Total: $1979.80

[Why_Me]

17 minutes ago, Devastator0 said:

Yeah so the only thing I'm carrying across is the GPU, case (Fractal Define R6) & PSU, I have an old 1080Ti in a separate rig so there will be some hardware re-shuffling as I move the existing platform down to my wife.

Something like this keeps the cost down while getting you into a new platform.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i5-13600KF 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor  ($449.00 @ PCCaseGear) 
CPU Cooler: *Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM CPU Cooler  ($99.00 @ Centre Com) 
Motherboard: *MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  ($379.00 @ Centre Com) 
Memory: *G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL32 Memory  ($205.00 @ I-Tech) 
Storage: *Crucial P3 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($171.58 @ Amazon Australia) 
Total: $1303.58
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-30 12:34 AEST+1000

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, Devastator0 said:

Yeah so the only thing I'm carrying across is the GPU, case (Fractal Define R6) & PSU, I have an old 1080Ti in a separate rig so there will be some hardware re-shuffling as I move the existing platform down to my wife.

Oh that makes sense. Otherwise I would have personally saved by keeping your current ram and upgrading to a i7 13700k with the extra money you save. Also if you really want more memory 64gb kits that are 2x32 gbs is what I would recommend for ddr5 as most platforms are really finicky with 4 dim kits. Like they run significantly slower frequencies to get 4 dim kits stable vs 2 dim kits. Also could opt for 2x16gb kit if you are ok with only 32gb.