dac opinions on DAC / AMP / to replace onboard sound - to mixer, AVR - 600ohm DT 880 - overly complicated setup.

[flitzanu]

I've perused a few posts and been googling a few days without finding an exact solution, and wondering if someone may have some insight.

 

Sorry to be wordy, I want to try to cover all the info so people don't have to ask a bunch of questions I should already include.

 

I'm looking to replace using onboard audio, though I fall into the "don't necessarily need to" camp, but half of my use case is giving me grief.

 

Current specs/items:

 

ASUS ROG Maximus X Code mobo

Beyerdynamic DT 880 Special black 600 ohm headphones

Yamaha AVR HTR-5240 / Klipsch R52C center/  R51M fronts

Behringer X1204USB mixer

-related, also have a Soundblaster G6 and another cheap USB sound chip/card.

 

If there's another key item that you want to know, let me know, I think that's basically the items involved.

 

A. 

The basic setup -- optical out from onboard mobo into my AVR, to power my speakers and all my audio runs through this most of the time.

**on a whim, I recently tried using the G6 as my "main" audio and hooked it (mini toslink to toslink) to my AVR and though I feel like it shouldn't make so much difference, it really seemed to open up a lot of sound and things seemed to be clearer and better - so option 1 could simply be, get another G6.

 

B.

The secondary setup and use -- the audio from my PC is also being used for (twitch) streaming, which leads to looking for another audio solution to replace using the onboard audio.

Ignoring part A as it doesn't relate to how this is used in this purpose:

1. onboard audio on mobo from Gaming PC using 1/8th to dual 1/4 into Behringer mixer on Line In 7/8.

2. cheap USB soundchip from Gaming PC using 1/8th to dual 1/4 into Behringer mixer on Line In 5/6

3. Soundblaster G6 from Gaming PC using 1/8th to dual 1/4 into Channel 3 and Channel 4 (hard panned L and R)

4. this is where I use the DT880 headphones for monitoring/gaming/stream - into the headphone jack on the mixer

 

Now, for both of these, I don't have to change any hardware, I just have to change Windows sound output from "amp" to "line out" when streaming, and change it back when I'm done and then I carry on using my AVR and speakers instead of the mixer.

 

This setup isn't broken in any way, but it feels like it has some areas to improve, and one of them is that the audio from the G6 is way better than my onboard audio.  Now, the G6 goes into two mic channels that are amped - so I do have some gain adjustment - and maybe I should just swap these around, because for some reason my line-out from onboard audio is just REALLY quiet, with all volumes maxed.  I swear it didn't used to be that way, that I had adequate volume adjustment with the slider in the past, and I tend to blame this on Windows somehow because all my sound issues tend to be because of Windows updates.

 

That being said, I got to looking at DACs to replace using my onboard audio, and to hopefully find a combo DAC/headphone amp sufficient to power my DT880s - AND that also has an optical out so that I can use it to run audio to my AVR as I'm currently doing.  I DO NOT NEED A HEADPHONE AMP THOUGH, that part truly is secondary - it is more wishful thinking.  I have a feeling that the better opinions will always be to get two separate items anyway and not something that does both, but again the DAC is the main part, and fixing/improving my sound source.

 

So far what I've found, which sort of meets criteria but maybe not perfect:

 

a. the Topping D10 Balanced - which actually has balanced dual 1/4 outs which would be perfect to run to a mixer, and has optical out.  However, not a headphone amp/preamp.

b. Soundavo HP-DAC1 - roughly the same price as the Topping, has RCA outs instead of 1/4 jacks though, has optical out, and has a headphone preamp - Headphone Output Level: 0.1% THD 1KHz 32mW (32 ohm)

c. FX Audio DAC-SQ3 - which looks like a low end non-branded Topping?  They are sold under the same "name" on Amazon so I'm not sure on this.  It looks to be the same as the D10 but with RCA.  It has volume, but no headphone jacks.

 

I keep digging and most of the headphone amps with DAC that I find do not have optical outs.  The DAC I find with optical outs don't seem to also be headphone amps.  The weird Soundavo HP-DAC1 might be the best solution but I'm not seeing much mention of it anywhere, and not sure if it is a solid piece, or just a solid...piece of garbo.

 

Does anyone have any input, opinions, or ideas on this?  I often find the magical niche area where no one makes an item that fits exactly what I need, and it feels like I'm at it again with finding a moderately priced item with a strong enough headphone amp and good DAC, with proper outputs.

 

Thoughts?  Am I looking for a unicorn, and should I just focus on a DAC with proper outputs instead of both?

 

Also, I could use a DAC with XLR outs, and I "can" use RCA which would make it more universally usable for other situations, but balanced TRS 1/4 is pretty rad.

 

 

 

[rice guru]

Had to retract my previous comment. Missunderstood your situation just want to say if the only issue with the d10 for your problem is it's lack of an amp. I would just look into getting a separate amp along with it. seems like the most stress free solution. 

[flitzanu]

11 hours ago, rice guru said:

Had to retract my previous comment. Missunderstood your situation just want to say if the only issue with the d10 for your problem is it's lack of an amp. I would just look into getting a separate amp along with it. seems like the most stress free solution. 

thank you, i know i jumped around a little bit.  i really can't seem to find many that have optical out at all, and virtually none with optical out and an amp.

 

i'm really tempted to try out the Soundavo HP-DAC1 as it hits most of the items i want, but also want to try the D10 because it supports DSD which i literally just learned about which intrigues me because i hate poor quality audio files.  

 

i may just have to get both.

 

but yes, that's roughly what i'm trying to find, a moderately cheap DAC with optical output, and even better, a DAC with optical output and a headphone amp.

 

**i guess to add to that point, if i ran a DAC and separate amp, they kind of loop together, so that still seems like i'd need to find an amp that i'd run the optical out from the DAC into the amp, and then need optical out from the amp to then go back to my AVR unless i constantly unhook things?

 

[rice guru]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:27 AM, flitzanu said:

thank you, i know i jumped around a little bit.  i really can't seem to find many that have optical out at all, and virtually none with optical out and an amp.

 

i'm really tempted to try out the Soundavo HP-DAC1 as it hits most of the items i want, but also want to try the D10 because it supports DSD which i literally just learned about which intrigues me because i hate poor quality audio files.  

 

i may just have to get both.

 

but yes, that's roughly what i'm trying to find, a moderately cheap DAC with optical output, and even better, a DAC with optical output and a headphone amp.

 

**i guess to add to that point, if i ran a DAC and separate amp, they kind of loop together, so that still seems like i'd need to find an amp that i'd run the optical out from the DAC into the amp, and then need optical out from the amp to then go back to my AVR unless i constantly unhook things?

 

Ngl DSD as cool as it is is generally not worth it sticking with FLAC is generally fine. My hesitance with the soundavo is looking up specs it doesn't tell much about how powerful the headphone amp is. Which is really important tells you what it claims to power which motherboards claim to power up to 600 ohm problem with this is to power the 880 properly requires more power than advertised 

So when a product doesn't tell me accurate specs that's a problem. The only review on it I found by audio YouTubers complain about dac quality for the price. At a $130 it's is kinda hard to find something better. But for your needs a magni 3+ and a topping d10 seems like a great combo but is more expensive.

[cmndr]

If it were 2001 I'd suggest upgrading the DAC. It's not 2001 and a DAC is a DAC for the most part, especially if it's sending the signal digitally. Amplification, EQ and "other stuff" still can matter but ehh... 

 

Consider buying an old, but not ancient AVR that has HDMI-in and aux out for headphones. I paid $200 for a Denon X3200W that checks all the boxes needed. You can even slap on more speakers for atmos. 

 

 

The moment you plug in head phones sound dynamically switches to the headphones. 

 

You don't need a sound card with this. You don't need a bunch of hacky stuff. It's mostly plug it in and use it. 

 

[Spuriae]

The Soundavo output quality has really bad specs (for comparison Apple's $9 3.5mm dongle is 0.0025% THD+N at the same load level), wouldn't recommend using it as a DAC. Its digital output is also significantly worse than the others, though that shouldn't matter too much in practice.

 

The typical use case for the optical out on the ~$100 level DACs is to use them as USB converters for older but more expensive DACs, since the conversion circuitry remains basically the same at all price points.

 

The D10s is the cheaper single-ended version of the D10B, if you'd be interested in that. The SQ3 is a different product by a different company, with further worse but still respectable performance (about on-par with the G6).

 

I think the best fit for your requirements is the SMSL PO100AK. The PO100 is a family of USB digital audio adapters, and the AK is one with a high performance DAC tacked on (performance between the D10B and D10S). It only has single-ended outputs, but it's also considerably cheaper than either of the D10 models. It's cheap enough that you could add a good headphone amplifier to it and end up with a much better overall package with the same feature set for about the same price as the Soundavo.

[flitzanu]

17 hours ago, rice guru said:

Ngl DSD as cool as it is is generally not worth it sticking with FLAC is generally fine. My hesitance with the soundavo is looking up specs it doesn't tell much about how powerful the headphone amp is. Which is really important tells you what it claims to power which motherboards claim to power up to 600 ohm problem with this is to power the 880 properly requires more power than advertised 

So when a product tells me accurate specs that's a problem. The only review on it I found by audio YouTubers complain about dac quality for the price. At a $130 it's is kinda hard to find something better. But for your needs a magni 3+ and a topping d10 seems like a great combo but is more expensive.

i'm doing a bit of learning as i'm in this journey and you're absolutely right.  my headphones and the G6 were actually a gift, and as it turns out (from researching) the general consensus is i'd want about 100mW for 600ohm headphones, and i can't seem to find listed specs for the G6 - so assumedly it isn't pushing 100mW, and i did find a Soundavo tech sheet that it was 76mW @ 600ohm so as you're suggesting it would be smarter to find a better amp regardless.  i'd rather find something to push the headphones to full potential rather than just be "ok" 

[flitzanu]

13 hours ago, cmndr said:

If it were 2001 I'd suggest upgrading the DAC. It's not 2001 and a DAC is a DAC for the most part, especially if it's sending the signal digitally. Amplification, EQ and "other stuff" still can matter but ehh... 

 

Consider buying an old, but not ancient AVR that has HDMI-in and aux out for headphones. I paid $200 for a Denon X3200W that checks all the boxes needed. You can even slap on more speakers for atmos. 

 

 

The moment you plug in head phones sound dynamically switches to the headphones. 

 

You don't need a sound card with this. You don't need a bunch of hacky stuff. It's mostly plug it in and use it. 

 

i appreciate the info, but HDMI really isn't an optimal solution for the setup i listed.  that's a solution for the secondary part of the headphones, but not a solution for getting balanced sound from my PC into my mixer.

[flitzanu]

11 hours ago, Nimrodor said:

The Soundavo output quality has really bad specs (for comparison Apple's $9 3.5mm dongle is 0.0025% THD+N at the same load level), wouldn't recommend using it as a DAC. Its digital output is also significantly worse than the others, though that shouldn't matter too much in practice.

 

The typical use case for the optical out on the ~$100 level DACs is to use them as USB converters for older but more expensive DACs, since the conversion circuitry remains basically the same at all price points.

 

The D10s is the cheaper single-ended version of the D10B, if you'd be interested in that. The SQ3 is a different product by a different company, with further worse but still respectable performance (about on-par with the G6).

 

I think the best fit for your requirements is the SMSL PO100AK. The PO100 is a family of USB digital audio adapters, and the AK is one with a high performance DAC tacked on (performance between the D10B and D10S). It only has single-ended outputs, but it's also considerably cheaper than either of the D10 models. It's cheap enough that you could add a good headphone amplifier to it and end up with a much better overall package with the same feature set for about the same price as the Soundavo.

i don't think i found that SMSL in my searching, that's really interesting.  as i said i've been having a hard time finding very many things with optical out, most seem to just be optical in.

 

i guess my concern is, i know it is possible to get cables that are RCA to TS/TRS but that's going unbalanced into balanced, right?  that's what caught my attention with the D10B is that for running it to a mixer with XLR/TRS (the mic channels will take TS/TRS or XLR) that optimally it seemed that would be less...sidestepping...if i were able to run dual 1/4 into dual 1/4 instead of using RCA to TRS or using a single 1/8 to dual 1/4 like i'm doing now.  so much advice always seems to be to avoid using adapters as much as possible, if possible, but i don't know how accurate that really is.

 

the above, however, does create a bit of a secondary issue, that so many headphone amps and such seem to have/prefer RCA inputs for interconnecting pieces, so the D10B would cut down a bit of versatility.

 

i mean the other option could/would be finding a similar DAC that has XLR outs as well as optical out.

 

sorry, again not intending to downplay the suggestion, that's absolutely a cheaper option, i'm just really trying to wrap my brain around getting optimal performance.  so much of what i'm looking to do is quite often a "this streamer does it this way so i'm doing the same thing" type of setup where everyone buys a GOXLR and runs everything from a 1/8th jack and does everything digitally, and i'm trying to do everything as analog as possible (except for the additional step of getting my PC audio from USB to optical into my AVR for speaker use)

[Spuriae]

35 minutes ago, flitzanu said:

i guess my concern is, i know it is possible to get cables that are RCA to TS/TRS but that's going unbalanced into balanced, right?  that's what caught my attention with the D10B is that for running it to a mixer with XLR/TRS (the mic channels will take TS/TRS or XLR) that optimally it seemed that would be less...sidestepping...if i were able to run dual 1/4 into dual 1/4 instead of using RCA to TRS or using a single 1/8 to dual 1/4 like i'm doing now.  so much advice always seems to be to avoid using adapters as much as possible, if possible, but i don't know how accurate that really is.

Avoiding adapters is good advice because it tells you when you're trying to connect things that shouldn't normally be connected. But if you have good reason to be doing something that isn't normally done, adapters may be necessary to make that happen. I'm not really sure how/why you have three different outputs from your PC going to your mixer at the same time, maybe if you could explain that I'd have a better idea of what would work within your setup.

 

Balanced output to single ended input adapters can damage the balanced output device. Single-ended output to balanced input is normal and is officially supported by the X1204.

48 minutes ago, flitzanu said:

the above, however, does create a bit of a secondary issue, that so many headphone amps and such seem to have/prefer RCA inputs for interconnecting pieces, so the D10B would cut down a bit of versatility.

Funnily enough, the D10B comes with TRS to XLR adapters because balanced TRS is nonstandard for headphone audio.

 

Don't use those adapters to run the D10B output into the X1204 XLR input, since they're technically incompatible (D10B max output level is 4.2Vrms/14.7dBu; the X1204 XLR max input level is 12dBu and starts to clip well below that); use the line input if you need it to feed into the mixer.

 

1 hour ago, flitzanu said:

i'm doing a bit of learning as i'm in this journey and you're absolutely right.  my headphones and the G6 were actually a gift, and as it turns out (from researching) the general consensus is i'd want about 100mW for 600ohm headphones, and i can't seem to find listed specs for the G6 - so assumedly it isn't pushing 100mW, and i did find a Soundavo tech sheet that it was 76mW @ 600ohm so as you're suggesting it would be smarter to find a better amp regardless.  i'd rather find something to push the headphones to full potential rather than just be "ok" 

The correct output level is loud enough for your needs; 100mW into 600Ω is a good rule of thumb to be enough to comfortably drive almost any high impedance headphone, but it's not a requirement if you can already get the sound you want with less power. For what it's worth the G6 is 5Vrms output, so 42 mW into 600Ω.

 

The more I look into the Soundavo, the weirder it becomes. The output specs on their website don't match the specs in their manual. The product image on Amazon shows a different PCB in the same chassis, using different chips from the ones on any of their product listings. The power supply markings on the product itself and in the manual are different, while the power requirements to reach the manual's output specs would be different yet again. I'm tempted to buy one, test it, and tear it down just to know what the actual product is.

[flitzanu]

1 hour ago, Nimrodor said:

Avoiding adapters is good advice because it tells you when you're trying to connect things that shouldn't normally be connected. But if you have good reason to be doing something that isn't normally done, adapters may be necessary to make that happen. I'm not really sure how/why you have three different outputs from your PC going to your mixer at the same time, maybe if you could explain that I'd have a better idea of what would work within your setup.

 

Balanced output to single ended input adapters can damage the balanced output device. Single-ended output to balanced input is normal and is officially supported by the X1204.

i think we're getting somewhere now

 

so, as i was indicating, "normal" PC into Mixer is using a standard 1/8th to dual 1/4 into the 5/6 or 7/8, which works...but for whatever reason, my volume level using that is really low.  a couple years ago it was fine and i had headroom but i still suspect windows has goofed something along the way but who knows.  that's where this search started.  i'd have to have my volume slider at 0 on the mixer with the PC line out volume at 100 just for it to be "fine" but still often quiet in some games, even with those game volumes maxed.  so i started looking for other ways to boost that, and there's seriously such a lack of information on it that i've been exploring more "pro audio" type solutions.

 

now, in reference to that, after using both 5/6 and 7/8 i needed a third channel, so i started using the G6 and same thing, 1/8th to dual 1/4 into mic channel 3 and 4, hard panned L/R, which also gives amp/gain and i can boost the signal quite well to get much more volume.  

 

and also the terminology "single ended output" is not something i'm familiar with, as i'm just encroaching this whole thing, i just know that the x1204 does indicate it will take balanced/unbalanced jacks.

 

as for the 3 audio sources, i don't like having all my audio dumped through one line, so the rough idea is:

 

(dual PC streaming setup, i don't know if i mentioned that, so all audio goes to the mixer from A) gaming pc and piped to B) stream pc from the USB on the mixer)

 

1. onboard mobo line out - 1/8 to dual 1/4 to channel 7/8 on the mixer.  this is video game audio ONLY.  that way it is entirely separated from anything else.

2. cheap amazon $5 USB sound chip (the cheap one with just a line out and mic in jack) - 1/8 to dual 1/4 - to channel 5/6 on the mixer.  this channel is strictly for superfluous things like discord chat, voice chat, or other communication - which often needs different volume settings than game volume.

3. the G6 is then 1/8 to dual 1/4 into mic channels 3/4 hard panned L/R and this was being used for background music, stream alerts, sound effects/sound board, stupid noises, etc., which again often needs different volume levels than the other two things.  also have gain control on these two channels to give more headroom for volume.

 

sidenote: because i'm an idiot overlooking one obvious solution, i never thought to simply switch item 1 and 3, so i did that last night so now i have gain control volume for my game audio and gave me the headroom that i was needing.  it was a simple notion that had been staring me in the face that i just completely ignored.

 

1 hour ago, Nimrodor said:

Funnily enough, the D10B comes with TRS to XLR adapters because balanced TRS is nonstandard for headphone audio.

 

Don't use those adapters to run the D10B output into the X1204 XLR input, since they're technically incompatible (D10B max output level is 4.2Vrms/14.7dBu; the X1204 XLR max input level is 12dBu and starts to clip well below that); use the line input if you need it to feed into the mixer.

this is what caught my attention with the D10B that it had proper balanced 1/4 out and for the minimal price it really got me thinking that it could be something to try out for what i'm doing above, and would avoid using those Y adapters for 1/8 to 1/4.  i don't suspect it is going to be a phenomenal change, and possibly not even noticeable, but really curious if it might help clean up the signal into more of how "it should work" since it is proper jack to jack.  again, maybe that's ignorant.

 

1 hour ago, Nimrodor said:

The correct output level is loud enough for your needs; 100mW into 600Ω is a good rule of thumb to be enough to comfortably drive almost any high impedance headphone, but it's not a requirement if you can already get the sound you want with less power. For what it's worth the G6 is 5Vrms output, so 42 mW into 600Ω.

 

The more I look into the Soundavo, the weirder it becomes. The output specs on their website don't match the specs in their manual. The product image on Amazon shows a different PCB in the same chassis, using different chips from the ones on any of their product listings. The power supply markings on the product itself and in the manual are different, while the power requirements to reach the manual's output specs would be different yet again. I'm tempted to buy one, test it, and tear it down just to know what the actual product is.

 

i think mentioning the headphone part might have muddied what i was originally after, but it is also giving me good learning information.  as i said, the headphones and the G6 were a gift a long time ago, and what i've learned in the last few days is that i haven't really used these to their potential.  since there were many DAC/amp combos i was thinking i could find something that would fit my interest for a new DAC and also be able to get one with an amp, but there seems to be a weird missing niche in that category where DACs with headphone amps will also passthru optical out.  

 

that's where i happened to see the Soundavo, and although it was using RCA outs, it also had optical out and the headphone amp (again for a minimal price) so it was really interesting.  looking at the headphone output as discussed, falls below the "100mW into 600ohm" so it may work just fine, but if i'm going to find something to push the headphones, i'd lean toward finding something to REALLY push them properly, yaknow?  but again...that part is truly secondary, so i'd rather not get a combo piece that half-ass does both things, and if the better choice is two separate things that do things properly i'd go that route.

 

so...ultimately, what happened was what i briefly touched on, one day i was messing around with hardware and decided to switch my G6 directly to my AVR with a spdif instead of using my normal mobo spdif, and maybe i'm crazy...but i swear it sounded better on my speakers.  i didn't "want" it to sound better, so i don't really feel like it was a weird placebo bias that i convinced myself it did.  again...maybe it was imaginary, but i started thinking of getting a 2nd G6 to start using it for my normal PC audio and bypass onboard mobo audio completely.  i've always been a supporter of proper sound cards but just sort of fizzled out when decent audio became onboard (i literally had the first sound blaster card, and i can't remember if it was that generation or a following, but they made a "daughterboard" addon for it as well that i got - back when beeps and boops were king).  but instead of immediately grabbing a 2nd G6 i got to thinking...there's obviously other options, and started looking at USB DACs.  and that's where we are.

 

i know there's a lot of contention that onboard is fine, DACs are DACs blah blah, and i'm by no means an expert, but i can look at spec sheets for chips and know that the ESS ES9023P on my mobo is not the same as ESS ES9038Q2M on the D10B.  i can also know that some of those changes may be imperceptible, but there can still be improvements in my setup.  and also i know that there's resounding advice to get audio sources "outside" of the inside of your PC due to so much noise pollution, so that's also part of what i'm exploring.

 

maybe that gives a little more detailed story on it.

 

i'm not looking for the holy grail of equipment, but if i can piss away ~100 bucks and clean up my signal/chain a bit and get some minimal/moderate improvements that's what i was hoping to do, without immediately jumping into buying another piece of "gaming" audio equipment.  

 

there truly is this weird void that i've found right at this imaginary/arbitrary area where "gaming" equipment and true audio equipment is meeting and it seems vastly unexplored, or, i'm looking in entirely wrong places.

 

"gaming" and "streaming" hardware is just getting way too digital, and i don't want to do everything through software, i want to try to keep as much analog as possible (aside from the obvious digital signal out of the pc and back into another pc).  i can't tell you how hard it was to try to work out hardware for like, voice changers, voice effects and whatnot - the answers are always "buy a GOXLR" or "use voicemod software" or "use a DAW and edit in post" which doesn't help for live audio.  i digress...i ended up getting a TC Helicon Perform-VE for that and it works amazingly well, and gives me L/R stereo voice and effects, and without taxing my CPU to do it.

[rice guru]

5 hours ago, flitzanu said:

i'm doing a bit of learning as i'm in this journey and you're absolutely right.  my headphones and the G6 were actually a gift, and as it turns out (from researching) the general consensus is i'd want about 100mW for 600ohm headphones, and i can't seem to find listed specs for the G6 - so assumedly it isn't pushing 100mW, and i did find a Soundavo tech sheet that it was 76mW @ 600ohm so as you're suggesting it would be smarter to find a better amp regardless.  i'd rather find something to push the headphones to full potential rather than just be "ok" 

https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-plus

This is generally my all around reccomendation 215 mw at 600 ohms you have plenty of power to work with should be able to push it to full potential. Having that extra power will compensate for how hard dit is to drive at certain other frequencies.

[cmndr]

5 hours ago, flitzanu said:

i appreciate the info, but HDMI really isn't an optimal solution for the setup i listed.  that's a solution for the secondary part of the headphones, but not a solution for getting balanced sound from my PC into my mixer.

Not sure about HDCP issues but AVRs often have zone 2 out. 

[Psittac]

If you're missing out an anything it is a proper amp for your dt880-600, above all other headphones I have and am aware of this needs some heft to unlock everything it has to offer.  A proper amp will unlock more than a dac will, for your headphones at least.

 

If you don't want to do an amp right now, I would make it a priority as a follow up addition.  I have the older version of this Emotiva Basx A2m amplifier and it brings every last bit out of those headphones, also means that I can power any headphones that aren't electrostatic, again that I'm aware of.  Another options would be the THX AAA linear however it's sold out right now.

 

Trust me, those headphones soak up power that normal amp's can't provide, I've tested it side by side vs other amp's I have.

[rice guru]

18 minutes ago, Psittac said:

Another options would be the THX AAA linear however it's sold out right now.

I would never reccomend thx amps to beyer users. Their brighter sound signature really doesn't pair well with beyers already bright signatures. the cheaper magni amp is more powerful and is just as clean as well as more neutral sounding closer to the sound that comes out of a jds labs atom. Which to me is a way nicer sounding amp than the bright and clinical sound of the drop/early thx amps.  Emotiva is a decent option but is pricey but will at least be a great speaker amp as well. 

[flitzanu]

47 minutes ago, Psittac said:

If you're missing out an anything it is a proper amp for your dt880-600, above all other headphones I have and am aware of this needs some heft to unlock everything it has to offer.  A proper amp will unlock more than a dac will, for your headphones at least.

 

If you don't want to do an amp right now, I would make it a priority as a follow up addition.  I have the older version of this Emotiva Basx A2m amplifier and it brings every last bit out of those headphones, also means that I can power any headphones that aren't electrostatic, again that I'm aware of.  Another options would be the THX AAA linear however it's sold out right now.

 

Trust me, those headphones soak up power that normal amp's can't provide, I've tested it side by side vs other amp's I have.

it's so interesting, i just literally never did much with headphones.  i use JBL Studio 580 towers for my home theater/movie watching and just didn't have a real need for headphones.  i'm starting to learn through this process that this phones i got are being completely underutilized

[flitzanu]

i keep going back to the D10B.  again, still learning, but seems like balanced outputs can help avoid any electrical noise or ground loop that can be introduced from using RCA jacks, anyone have opinions on that?  i was about to save some cash and get the normal D10 with RCA but seems it is worth the extra 30 bucks for using balanced (since it is going into balanced TRS on a mixer).

 

any opinions for/against?

[rice guru]

24 minutes ago, flitzanu said:

i keep going back to the D10B.  again, still learning, but seems like balanced outputs can help avoid any electrical noise or ground loop that can be introduced from using RCA jacks, anyone have opinions on that?  i was about to save some cash and get the normal D10 with RCA but seems it is worth the extra 30 bucks for using balanced (since it is going into balanced TRS on a mixer).

 

any opinions for/against?

I don't see why not if your willing to spend the cash sometimes peace of mind is worth the money. I personally think rca is great but I also dont have a mixer in my setup. But I doubt your cable runs are long enough for balanced to matter. Its your gear though I've definitely seen worse. Even I run balanced from my dac to my balanced amp. 

[flitzanu]

39 minutes ago, rice guru said:

I don't see why not if your willing to spend the cash sometimes peace of mind is worth the money. I personally think rca is great but I also dont have a mixer in my setup. But I doubt your cable runs are long enough for balanced to matter. Its your gear though I've definitely seen worse. Even I run balanced from my dac to my balanced amp. 

yeah i guess it's just one of those things i won't know unless i tried both of them side by side.  i do end up using about 12 feet of cable just for cable management and wrapping from one side of the desk to the other.  since ultimately that's one goal is to clean up everything possible it might be worth removing RCA cable interference as an option.  

[Psittac]

A balanced connection will certainly remove interference, but if you have a ground loop or other similar situation that is out of the norm and is an actual problem.  I had a ground loop problem in my single ended chain and it turned out to be a poor quality RCA switch and/or one of the amp's connected to it.  Since I solved that issue I have no interference and currently run only single ended.  I plan on utilizing the XLR function of my dac but don't currently have a balanced amp.