PC NAS or Prebuilt NAS?

[ReapWhatYouSow]

Hey all. thinking of setting up a NAS, and could use some help. 

 

The problem I'm having is, is it better to buy a dedicated QNAP device that does the whole NAS thing, or to buy a cheap mini PC or something and use that as my home server with a hard drive attached via USB?

From what I see, the QNAP and a cheap mini micro PC are around the same price, $100ish. 

 

The former option seems more straight forward, probably anyway.

But with a mini PC I'd assume it's more versatile? I'm used to Windows but I don't mind running Linux. The video recommends TrueNAS but I'd rather an OS where I can actually use the micro PC for other things too if that's possible?

 

I guess the main problem is I wouldn't really know where to start with configuring my own NAS. I watched the LTT video,  but that's with a PLEX set up on Windows.

I don't really just want it just as a media server, but rather for all my files so I can access them anywhere in the world and on any device. There was a folder shared in that video but I'm not sure if that would work the same way a NAS would and I could access the folder on my phone for instance. Would the Windows solution allow me to access my files and others to access my files? If not, can I do it on Linux without TrueNAS? 

 

Any tips or advice please? Which would be better for me? Thanks!

[tkitch]

You mention using it for other things, what "other things" would that include?

 

As for TrueNAS:

It is a file server.  Full stop.  Be those files videos, audio, word documents, databases, or anything else.

And with proper configuration, you CAN access it remotely, too.

[bezza...]

pc nas. you can get a cheap pc that will cost half as much and perform twise as well as any prebuilt setupp and you can acsess remotly rlly easy.

[ReapWhatYouSow]

7 hours ago, tkitch said:

You mention using it for other things, what "other things" would that include?

 

As for TrueNAS:

It is a file server.  Full stop.  Be those files videos, audio, word documents, databases, or anything else.

And with proper configuration, you CAN access it remotely, too.

Just being able to use it like a normal PC to browse and stuff would be nice. Alternatively, could I set up something like Pi-hole using a mini PC? 

 

[ReapWhatYouSow]

7 hours ago, Tomberry said:

pc nas. you can get a cheap pc that will cost half as much and perform twise as well as any prebuilt setupp and you can acsess remotly rlly easy.

Thank you. How would I set it up though? That's sort of what i'm having a tough time figuring out. For mobile access and such. Is TrueNAS really just the best way?

I don't know if the Windows solutions are good enough, though they would be ideal, but on the flip side I'm not really all that familiar with Linux. I guess I'm not someone who'd want to be constantly tinkering, but I can take a bit of time to learn if things will be smooth sailing after. My uses would be pretty basic, it's mostly just me looking for a way to access certain files from every device. 

One thing about a Mini PC is that I would need to connect the hard drives via USB 3.0, not sure if that would be an issue. 

[ryd994]

1 hour ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

something like Pi-hole

If you run Truenas scale, you have k8s. I'm sure there's a Pi-hole docker image. TrueNas Scale is basically a Debian Linux. K8s / docker keeps everything tidy. May need some learning tho.

 

If you run Truenas core, I don't find Pi-hole in the plugins offered. Not sure if Pi-hole is available in freebsd either. You can run virtual machine, but that will need a lot of RAM. 

[ryd994]

1 hour ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

That's sort of what i'm having a tough time figuring out.

It really depends on your time. If you don't have much time, Synology is easy to use. You get remote access basically out of box. If not, you can call support, because you paid for that too.

 

It is double expensive, but at the end of day, that's just $100-ish premium. If your time is more expensive than that, then buying is if fact cheaper than building.

 

However, diy has the fun part. If you take diy as a hobby and enjoy it, then the time doesn't count as cost

 

[bezza...]

6 hours ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Thank you. How would I set it up though? That's sort of what i'm having a tough time figuring out. For mobile access and such. Is TrueNAS really just the best way?

I don't know if the Windows solutions are good enough, though they would be ideal, but on the flip side I'm not really all that familiar with Linux. I guess I'm not someone who'd want to be constantly tinkering, but I can take a bit of time to learn if things will be smooth sailing after. My uses would be pretty basic, it's mostly just me looking for a way to access certain files from every device. 

One thing about a Mini PC is that I would need to connect the hard drives via USB 3.0, not sure if that would be an issue. 

i mean i use truenas and it works fine just fine for remote acsess but i think that is only on my normal wifi network and you have to do somthing different for true remote acsess. lol my first post on this forum was for help setting up true nas. watch a hardwhare haven vid they lay it out simply

[Needfuldoer]

6 hours ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Just being able to use it like a normal PC to browse and stuff would be nice.

You don't want to use your NAS for web browsing. 

[ReapWhatYouSow]

7 hours ago, ryd994 said:

If you run Truenas scale, you have k8s. I'm sure there's a Pi-hole docker image. TrueNas Scale is basically a Debian Linux. K8s / docker keeps everything tidy. May need some learning tho.

 

If you run Truenas core, I don't find Pi-hole in the plugins offered. Not sure if Pi-hole is available in freebsd either. You can run virtual machine, but that will need a lot of RAM. 

Hmm, a bit over my head right now, but very promising to know that it is possible with Truenas scale. Can I access a browser and stuff too or is that a no go? Would need to learn I suppose. 

7 hours ago, ryd994 said:

It really depends on your time. If you don't have much time, Synology is easy to use. You get remote access basically out of box. If not, you can call support, because you paid for that too.

 

It is double expensive, but at the end of day, that's just $100-ish premium. If your time is more expensive than that, then buying is if fact cheaper than building.

 

However, diy has the fun part. If you take diy as a hobby and enjoy it, then the time doesn't count as cost

 

Honestly I'm open to learning but right now I'm not sure I have the time to tinker. But I'm also a penny pincher . If buying a mini PC is going to save me from having to upgrade in the long run it might be worth it. As long as it wouldn't take too long and I wouldn't have to learn too much just to get it running. 

My needs are very simple, but I'd also want it to just work without constant modification.

 

It seems unanimous though that if I want to do this, then TrueNAS is the way forward? Nothing I can really do on Windows so that I have a NAS setup which I can access from my phone and other laptops?

2 hours ago, Tomberry said:

i mean i use truenas and it works fine just fine for remote acsess but i think that is only on my normal wifi network and you have to do somthing different for true remote acsess. lol my first post on this forum was for help setting up true nas. watch a hardwhare haven vid they lay it out simply

I've had tailscale recommended before as a VPN to get access to your own network, and then you can access it from android and PC if you run tailscale, but if I'm honest it went over my head and I didn't really know how to configure it or what I was really doing. 

[ReapWhatYouSow]

2 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

You don't want to use your NAS for web browsing. 

Oh, any specific reason why I shouldn't use the mini PC for web browsing if i have a NAS running on it? It would be at times while I'm not actively accessing the NAS so hopefully not causing a massive bottleneck or anything

[Needfuldoer]

18 minutes ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Oh, any specific reason why I shouldn't use the mini PC for web browsing if i have a NAS running on it? It would be at times while I'm not actively accessing the NAS so hopefully not causing a massive bottleneck or anything

It's not about performance, it's about security. You don't want to catch a drive-by ransomware infection on your NAS.

[LapsedMemory]

1 hour ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Hmm, a bit over my head right now, but very promising to know that it is possible with Truenas scale. Can I access a browser and stuff too or is that a no go? Would need to learn I suppose. 

Honestly I'm open to learning but right now I'm not sure I have the time to tinker. But I'm also a penny pincher . If buying a mini PC is going to save me from having to upgrade in the long run it might be worth it. As long as it wouldn't take too long and I wouldn't have to learn too much just to get it running. 

My needs are very simple, but I'd also want it to just work without constant modification.

 

It seems unanimous though that if I want to do this, then TrueNAS is the way forward? Nothing I can really do on Windows so that I have a NAS setup which I can access from my phone and other laptops?

I've had tailscale recommended before as a VPN to get access to your own network, and then you can access it from android and PC if you run tailscale, but if I'm honest it went over my head and I didn't really know how to configure it or what I was really doing. 

If you want something that works, and don't have a lot of time right now to dedicate to making it work, get a pre-built.

 

If you have a lot of time and energy on your hands, then build your own.  

 

You will not regret buying a pre-built like the QNAP or a Synology, but you may regret (at least in the short term) trying to roll your own if you don't know what you're doing yet.  I know some of the pre-builts also have their own companion phone apps if that's something you're interested in doing.  

 

There's also the issue of power draw.  Pre-built systems are extremely efficient.  Older hobbled together hardware is usually not.  Depending on your electric bill, a pre-built might actually be cheaper in a few years than trying to build your own if you don't already have most of the parts.  

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably get the pre-built to have something that just works and to dip your toes into networking and server configuration.  Then when you have a bit more time and experience, try to roll your own as a hobby project.

[ryd994]

7 hours ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Can I access a browser and stuff too or is that a no go?

Yes and no. TrueNas doesn't have GPU drivers. You might be able to steal something from Debian (it is Debian after all). I'm not sure if that will cause any instability.

 

You have a MacBook, why not just browsing using that?

6 hours ago, LapsedMemory said:

I know some of the pre-builts also have their own companion phone apps if that's something you're interested in doing.  

Yep. Another way to think about this is: paying $100 ish premium for the prebuild is actually paying for the software licensing fee.

 

There are ways to run hack-synolgy os, just like hackintosh. But .... meh

[ReapWhatYouSow]

9 hours ago, Needfuldoer said:

It's not about performance, it's about security. You don't want to catch a drive-by ransomware infection on your NAS.

Ah right, yeah that makes a lot of sense actually. Thanks for the warning. 

2 hours ago, ryd994 said:

Yes and no. TrueNas doesn't have GPU drivers. You might be able to steal something from Debian (it is Debian after all). I'm not sure if that will cause any instability.

 

You have a MacBook, why not just browsing using that?

Yep. Another way to think about this is: paying $100 ish premium for the prebuild is actually paying for the software licensing fee.

 

There are ways to run hack-synolgy os, just like hackintosh. But .... meh

I don't have a Macbook! I see what you guys are saying though. I guess the thought process for me was just that if I'm buying a dedicated mini PC, then it'd have been nice if I could do the things I could do with a regular PC on it. 

That's kind of why I was hoping Windows would have a way to do and run this. Plus anything Windows based I could easily test on my current machines before buying a mini PC, but it doesn't seem like I can really have a NAS that I can access from other devices through Windows. 

 

8 hours ago, LapsedMemory said:

If you want something that works, and don't have a lot of time right now to dedicate to making it work, get a pre-built.

 

If you have a lot of time and energy on your hands, then build your own.  

 

You will not regret buying a pre-built like the QNAP or a Synology, but you may regret (at least in the short term) trying to roll your own if you don't know what you're doing yet.  I know some of the pre-builts also have their own companion phone apps if that's something you're interested in doing.  

 

There's also the issue of power draw.  Pre-built systems are extremely efficient.  Older hobbled together hardware is usually not.  Depending on your electric bill, a pre-built might actually be cheaper in a few years than trying to build your own if you don't already have most of the parts.  

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably get the pre-built to have something that just works and to dip your toes into networking and server configuration.  Then when you have a bit more time and experience, try to roll your own as a hobby project.

Thank you, this is pretty good advice. I think part of me just wanted to build my own both because it's cost effective but also because it seems like the "end game", after which I wouldn't have to configure too much more. I actually was using the WD My Cloud Home as a NAS, and they're dropping support for the desktop app soon. You can still access it but it probably isn't long before they drop support altogether which is why I was thinking maybe I should just move onto something where I'm not depending on 3rd parties anymore.

 

Even Qnap I googled and saw they had a major security exploit in their drives so it does give me pause honestly. 

Prebuilts are also a bit of a minefield because being new to them it's kind of hard to know which ones are good and which aren't. I was looking at the qnap ts-130. It's a 1 bay but I backup the stuff on my current NAS to a different drive anyway. 

Do you guys think the QNAP TS-230 with 2 3TB drives for ~$150 is a good deal? It's not new, was used in a business environment, don't know what drives are inside. 

 

[ryd994]

3 hours ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Plus anything Windows based I could easily test on my current machines before buying a mini PC, but it doesn't seem like I can really have a NAS that I can access from other devices through Windows. 

It's totally fine to virtualize Truenas or Linux for testing, as long as you don't put any valuable data on it.

 

Windows should work fine too, but as others said, if you use it for other purposes, it will be very vulnerable to ransomware, which is one of the main reason I bought my nas. On my nas, I have setup daily snapshots, to make sure nothing on the client side can wipe out the server storage.

 

If you insist.... Then yes, windows works. I have a share on my windows machine, so that IPMI can boot from network. For non wondows platform, you may need to enable older encryption (not 128 bit)

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/51024-change-file-sharing-encryption-level-windows-10-a.html

 

[LapsedMemory]

12 hours ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Do you guys think the QNAP TS-230 with 2 3TB drives for ~$150 is a good deal? It's not new, was used in a business environment, don't know what drives are inside. 

 

A TS-230 at that price with drives is probably a good deal.  Due to the fact that you don't know anything about the drives and they've been used for a while already, I would probably format it RAID1 when you got it, that way your protected from one of them failing prematurely.

[ReapWhatYouSow]

4 hours ago, ryd994 said:

It's totally fine to virtualize Truenas or Linux for testing, as long as you don't put any valuable data on it.

 

Windows should work fine too, but as others said, if you use it for other purposes, it will be very vulnerable to ransomware, which is one of the main reason I bought my nas. On my nas, I have setup daily snapshots, to make sure nothing on the client side can wipe out the server storage.

 

If you insist.... Then yes, windows works. I have a share on my windows machine, so that IPMI can boot from network. For non wondows platform, you may need to enable older encryption (not 128 bit)

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/51024-change-file-sharing-encryption-level-windows-10-a.html

 

I didn't actually consider virtualising Truenas on linux for testing purposes, that's a solid idea too thanks!

It does seem like I'm better off not using Windows. The consensus seems to be you can but don't bother, so I would need to take the time to learn a bit of Linux. 

1 minute ago, LapsedMemory said:

A TS-230 at that price with drives is probably a good deal.  Due to the fact that you don't know anything about the drives and they've been used for a while already, I would probably format it RAID1 when you got it, that way your protected from one of them failing prematurely.

Thanks. I wasn't sure because it's a bit over budget, I was more thinking getting something in the $100 range since I don't mind used, but if it's a good deal then maybe I should bite. 

 

Oh, one more thing about pre built NAS's like the QNAP. If the QNAP itself fails, can I access my data through the hard drives themselves by plugging them into a caddy, or am I out of luck? I couldn't find a definitive answer on Google, some models seemed to suggest you couldn't unless you bought the same NAS and put the drives back in, others suggested it'd show up fine in Windows. 

[LapsedMemory]

8 minutes ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Oh, one more thing about pre built NAS's like the QNAP. If the QNAP itself fails, can I access my data through the hard drives themselves by plugging them into a caddy, or am I out of luck? I couldn't find a definitive answer on Google, some models seemed to suggest you couldn't unless you bought the same NAS and put the drives back in, others suggested it'd show up fine in Windows. 

It looks like QNAP's RAID1 implimentation allows you to plug the drive into a PC running Linux and use a utility to pull the data off if you can't use the QNAP itself.

http://qnapsupport.net/teknik-destek/qnap-nas-cihazlarindan-veri-kurtarma-felaket-senaryolari/raid-1-single-disk-yapisindan-veri-kurtarmak/

 

[LIGISTX]

You could run proxmox and virtualize truenas next to a VM of windows. Have your cake and eat it to I suppose. 
 

My truenas has been virtual for 8+ years, only real stipulation if you go that route is you need a HBA to pass through to the truenas or unraid VM so they can have direct harddrive access. HBA’s are like 40-50 bucks used on eBay with the required SAS to SATA breakout cables. If you get one, make sure it’s flashed to IT mode, or be ready to flash it yourself (google I’ll be your friend here, but get learned up on this before you make any purchasing decisions). 

[ReapWhatYouSow]

3 hours ago, LapsedMemory said:

It looks like QNAP's RAID1 implimentation allows you to plug the drive into a PC running Linux and use a utility to pull the data off if you can't use the QNAP itself.

http://qnapsupport.net/teknik-destek/qnap-nas-cihazlarindan-veri-kurtarma-felaket-senaryolari/raid-1-single-disk-yapisindan-veri-kurtarmak/

 

Thanks.

I know it's not really recommended but I considered not using RAID. I generally keep a separate manual backup of the stuff on my NAS, most stuff there I generally can get back. Maybe RAID would be best though. 

1 hour ago, LIGISTX said:

You could run proxmox and virtualize truenas next to a VM of windows. Have your cake and eat it to I suppose. 
 

My truenas has been virtual for 8+ years, only real stipulation if you go that route is you need a HBA to pass through to the truenas or unraid VM so they can have direct harddrive access. HBA’s are like 40-50 bucks used on eBay with the required SAS to SATA breakout cables. If you get one, make sure it’s flashed to IT mode, or be ready to flash it yourself (google I’ll be your friend here, but get learned up on this before you make any purchasing decisions). 

Thank you. Right now a lot of this stuff is way over my head so there's a lot to learn!

 

I guess it does boil down to either TrueNAS or QNAP for me then. Seems like even if I can use Windows, I probably shouldn't bother. 

[LIGISTX]

59 minutes ago, ReapWhatYouSow said:

Thanks.

I know it's not really recommended but I considered not using RAID. I generally keep a separate manual backup of the stuff on my NAS, most stuff there I generally can get back. Maybe RAID would be best though. 

Thank you. Right now a lot of this stuff is way over my head so there's a lot to learn!

 

I guess it does boil down to either TrueNAS or QNAP for me then. Seems like even if I can use Windows, I probably shouldn't bother. 

I would use RAID... its not just for the ease of not having to move data around if a drive dies and try an recover from backup or other sources, it also helps against data rot and corruption. Truenas uses ZFS, which will scrub your pool and verify data is good, and if it finds an issue it will correct it. Some simple googling will help you find info on how this works

 

A lot of this was over my head when I started as well, but once you start poking around on google and watch youtube videos, things start to make sense. Everyone has to start somewhere

 

When I started I was on truenas Core running on bare metal, and just a plex container. Now I run a pretty full fledged homelab. Its fun to learn, just takes some time.