gaming on linux

[g0ated]

I am pretty experinced with linux but one major drawback for me to make the switch to linux is games like valorant
(one of the only games that is not supported by linux as the devs are lazy, the rest of the games I play like apex are fine) and that is one of the only reasons why I have to use windows so I was wondering if I can use KVM to play valorant but how much performance will I lose? I would appreciate other ideas. Thanks in advance  

My system specs and Os are:

12700KF

rtx 3070ti

32gb 3600 mhz ddr4 RAM

MSI z690 edge wifi ddr4 motherboard

Os: arch linux kernel version: 6.1.23-1-lts kernel

[Zando_]

If the reason is anti-cheat, a VM will likely trigger it was well. Usually does. 

1 minute ago, goatedpenguin said:

one of the only games that is not supported by linux as the devs are lazy

 It isn't laziness, it's practicality. The Linux userbase is too small for it to be worth making an anti-cheat that accounts for it, and some premade anti-cheats that can, are less secure when you enable that functionality. Putting your main audience at higher risk of running into cheaters, making it an even less appealing decision. Some studios are willing to make that sacrifice that to support Linux, others aren't. 

[Eigenvektor]

4 minutes ago, goatedpenguin said:

one of the only reasons why I have to use windows so I was wondering if I can use KVM to play valorant but how much performance will I lose?

If you're running Windows in a VM, you're still using Windows. With the complexity of having to use two GPUs to use GPU passthrough, some loss of performance and also some possible weirdness with input (not) being captured by the VM… I'd stick with dual boot, it's much less hassle in the long run (in fact, that's what I'm doing).

[igormp]

7 minutes ago, goatedpenguin said:

I have to use windows so I was wondering if I can use KVM to play valorant but how much performance will I lose? I would appreciate other ideas. Thanks in advance  

My system specs and Os are:

12700KF

rtx 3070ti

You'd need to go a GPU passthrough, and since you lack an iGPU, your host system would be left without video output.

 

vGPU isn't an option for you, so there's nothing you can do, a VM without proper GPU accel is useless for games, so you're pretty much SOL.

[FuzzyLogic]

It's not because the devs are lazy. A lot of tools and requirements for games only work on Windows, and so porting a game to run on Linux could require an amount of work that just isn't worth it. Your best option is to dual boot Windows.

[g0ated]

thanks for the advice but if I dont use a passthrough, will the performance decrease be a lot eg lag, fps etc.

[igormp]

17 minutes ago, goatedpenguin said:

thanks for the advice but if I dont use a passthrough, will the performance decrease be a lot eg lag, fps etc.

It'd be like playing through software rendering, worse than even an iGPU.

[maplepants]

You've already got the answer that this can't be done.

 

But there are still options for running games: You can use CrossOver. It's commercial software, but it's really good. Use the trial to see if it works for you. It's cheaper than the Windows license you would have had to buy for your VM.

[igormp]

24 minutes ago, maplepants said:

You've already got the answer that this can't be done.

 

But there are still options for running games: You can use CrossOver. It's commercial software, but it's really good. Use the trial to see if it works for you. It's cheaper than the Windows license you would have had to buy for your VM.

CrossOver is a proprietary fork of Wine, which is what Proton uses underneath, so it'll still trigger the anti-cheat anyway.

[maplepants]

9 minutes ago, igormp said:

CrossOver is a proprietary fork of Wine, which is what Proton uses underneath, so it'll still trigger the anti-cheat anyway.

Good point. I don't play any online games so I forgot about that. 

 

CrossOver is just a proprietary Wine fork. In a lot of ways it's like Proton because you're basically having somebody else setup game specific tweaks for Wine so that you don't have to. And much like Valve, the CodeWeavers team is great about contributing upstream to Wine. 

[g0ated]

thanks for all the info I am gonna try using crossover and I will be also looking at vmware as I heard its pretty good for virtulized gaming. Also I know this may sound stupid, but is it possible to use my cpu as a passthrough instead of a whole another gpu cuz I dont have another one in hand.

[maplepants]

1 hour ago, goatedpenguin said:

I know this may sound stupid, but is it possible to use my cpu as a passthrough instead of a whole another gpu cuz I dont have another one in hand.

It's never stupid to ask. We all had to learn this information for the first time at one point. You're time for learning it is today.

 

Yes you can "pass through" your CPU; no it won't help.

 

Your CPU doesn't have onboard graphics. But it does support hardware level virtualization. This is what lets you run a VM at all. And this is where the pass through option comes from, because hardware device either needs natively support virtualization or your CPU only uses it in the VM.

 

Your GPU doesn't have any native virtualization support. GUPs like this exist but they're not for gaming PCs. So that leaves you two options: pass the device through to the VM or use it with the host.

[g0ated]

5 hours ago, maplepants said:

It's never stupid to ask. We all had to learn this information for the first time at one point. You're time for learning it is today.

 

Yes you can "pass through" your CPU; no it won't help.

 

Your CPU doesn't have onboard graphics. But it does support hardware level virtualization. This is what lets you run a VM at all. And this is where the pass through option comes from, because hardware device either needs natively support virtualization or your CPU only uses it in the VM.

 

Your GPU doesn't have any native virtualization support. GUPs like this exist but they're not for gaming PCs. So that leaves you two options: pass the device through to the VM or use it with the host.

thanks for the explanation

[Guest]

On 4/10/2023 at 1:03 PM, goatedpenguin said:

one of the only games that is not supported by linux as the devs are lazy

It's not supported on Linux because Vanguard , the Anti-Cheat Software, runs in Ring0 of the Windows Kernel and heavily relies on the Windows API.

Windows is predictable and closed source, Linux isn't. You would essentially need a proprietary closed source distro to target to achieve the same functionality and level of security, something I'm sure the Linux community would not welcome. Not to mention that Riot Games would have to maintain an additional code base for probably less than 1% of there player base.

 

7 hours ago, goatedpenguin said:

thanks for all the info I am gonna try using crossover and I will be also looking at vmware as I heard its pretty good for virtulized gaming.

Valorant will not run in crossover/wine due to the above and Vanguard actively checks if it's being run in a Virtual Machine and is a bannable offense.

If your goal is to play Valorant, you either need to dual boot or just use Windows.

[g0ated]

3 minutes ago, Nayr438 said:

It's not supported on Linux because Vanguard , the Anti-Cheat Software, runs in Ring0 of the Windows Kernel and heavily relies on the Windows API.

Windows is predictable and closed source, Linux isn't. You would essentially need a proprietary closed source distro to target to achieve the same functionality and level of security, something I'm sure the Linux community would not welcome. Not to mention that Riot Games would have to maintain an additional code base for probably less than 1% of there player base.

 

Valorant will not run in crossover/wine due to the above and Vanguard actively checks if it's being run in a Virtual Machine and is a bannable offense.

If your goal is to play Valorant, you either need to dual boot or just use Windows.

agreed and if you managed to even install it through wine somehow vanguard will pick it up and ban you

[cretsiah]

On 4/11/2023 at 4:03 AM, goatedpenguin said:

I am pretty experinced with linux but one major drawback for me to make the switch to linux is games like valorant
(one of the only games that is not supported by linux as the devs are lazy, the rest of the games I play like apex are fine) and that is one of the only reasons why I have to use windows so I was wondering if I can use KVM to play valorant but how much performance will I lose? I would appreciate other ideas. Thanks in advance  

My system specs and Os are:

12700KF

rtx 3070ti

32gb 3600 mhz ddr4 RAM

MSI z690 edge wifi ddr4 motherboard

Os: arch linux kernel version: 6.1.23-1-lts kernel

there isnt really much point in virtualising newer games. at least from what i have seen / read

- half the games come out as alpha / beta versions and constantly require major fixes.

- the basic game requirements are getting out of hand

- the updates to games end up requiring newer hardware to keep playing

- anti-cheat kernel level = now you gotta hope that the game companies are as vigilant as keeping bad actors out of your system or you could lose your whole system through no fault of the operating system or the user.

 

if a game doesnt have either a

- native port

- successful translation interpreter layer like wine/proton 

then im not interested

 

my biggest / heaviest games i am currently playing on Linux Mint Debian Edition 5

- space engineers ( but im not sure i like this one )

- Elite Dangerous

- Far Cry 5

- New Dawn

- Eve online ( not sure how i feel about this one )

- War Frame ( kinda sick of the constant updates/ patches installation delay )

- X4 Foundations (current favourite )

- Euro Truck Sim 2

- American Truck Sim

but i digress

   

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

On 4/10/2023 at 1:03 PM, goatedpenguin said:

I am pretty experinced with linux but one major drawback for me to make the switch to linux is games like valorant
(one of the only games that is not supported by linux as the devs are lazy, the rest of the games I play like apex are fine) and that is one of the only reasons why I have to use windows so I was wondering if I can use KVM to play valorant but how much performance will I lose? I would appreciate other ideas. Thanks in advance  

My system specs and Os are:

12700KF

rtx 3070ti

32gb 3600 mhz ddr4 RAM

MSI z690 edge wifi ddr4 motherboard

Os: arch linux kernel version: 6.1.23-1-lts kernel

Dual booting is a perfectly acceptable solution if your games are not well supported on linux.  

[g0ated]

1 hour ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

Dual booting is a perfectly acceptable solution if your games are not well supported on linux.  

Ye seems to be the only option I have since I don’t have an additional gpu on hand I can’t have a pass through. I will probably wait until cs go 2 to be released and switch from valorant to that as Cs go is well supported on linux. Also another wuestion I have is that Linux is installed on my aperiteef data add and windows is installed on my nvme is it possible to migrate everything from one drive to another(Linux on nvme windows on sata ssd)

[Guidosaurus-Rex]

3 hours ago, goatedpenguin said:

Ye seems to be the only option I have since I don’t have an additional gpu on hand I can’t have a pass through. I will probably wait until cs go 2 to be released and switch from valorant to that as Cs go is well supported on linux. Also another wuestion I have is that Linux is installed on my aperiteef data add and windows is installed on my nvme is it possible to migrate everything from one drive to another(Linux on nvme windows on sata ssd)

IMO, jumping through the hoops of creating a VM and passing through an RTX 4080 just to play a handful of games on linux defeats the purpose.  If it plays on Windows and that's the only way, then what's big deal.  A Window 10 key is $30.  Compared to what was spent on the rest of the hardware $30 is completely reasonable.  

 

Not sure what an "aperiteef data add" is.  If I understand the rest of what you said it sounds like you have each OS on it's own drive.  That's a good thing.  Keep it that way.  Best to dual boot from 2 separate drives versus partitioning 1 drive.  Windows can often ovewrite the EFI/boot partition and then it won't dual boot anymore

[g0ated]

6 hours ago, Guidosaurus-Rex said:

IMO, jumping through the hoops of creating a VM and passing through an RTX 4080 just to play a handful of games on linux defeats the purpose.  If it plays on Windows and that's the only way, then what's big deal.  A Window 10 key is $30.  Compared to what was spent on the rest of the hardware $30 is completely reasonable.  

 

Not sure what an "aperiteef data add" is.  If I understand the rest of what you said it sounds like you have each OS on it's own drive.  That's a good thing.  Keep it that way.  Best to dual boot from 2 separate drives versus partitioning 1 drive.  Windows can often ovewrite the EFI/boot partition and then it won't dual boot anymore

lmao sorry for the typo I meant "seperate sata ssd and" What I meant is that I wanna swap linux to the nvme drive and windows to the sata ssd drive

[The Hope]

Can't you just install windows permanently onto a USB and then plug the USB in whenever you want to play a game?

[g0ated]

3 hours ago, The Hope said:

Can't you just install windows permanently onto a USB and then plug the USB in whenever you want to play a game?

woundlt read and write speeds be extrmeley slow and that to my usb stick only has 64gb worth of space.

[The Hope]

16 hours ago, goatedpenguin said:

woundlt read and write speeds be extrmeley slow and that to my usb stick only has 64gb worth of space.

I suspect it won't have any performance impact, but can't guarantee it as I haven't used windows for almost 15 years.

What I have done myself is installed MX Linux and mageia on a USB 2.0 and although USB 2.0 is super slow even compared to a slow HDD I get in browser benchmarks the maximum performance my hardware can achieve. This is because apps are always mostly or completely loaded into RAM.

I wouldn't recommend using a USB 2.0, but a USB 3.0 or higher specifically from the SanDisk brand with 130 MB/s read speed (or higher) should work just fine.

At worst, your load times will be a bit slower, but again, it's important that you choose a higher performance USB 3.0 that has enough IOPS to load games smoothly.

[The Hope]

16 hours ago, goatedpenguin said:

woundlt read and write speeds be extrmeley slow and that to my usb stick only has 64gb worth of space.

SanDisk Ultra USB Type-C 256 GB USB stick costs € 24.99 in the country where I live. It has 256 GB of memory which is enough and it has max 150 MB/s read speed which means it will be able to load your games pretty fast.

[The Hope]

16 hours ago, goatedpenguin said:

woundlt read and write speeds be extrmeley slow and that to my usb stick only has 64gb worth of space.

It's this USB stick.