FPS drop shortly after purchase

[Joshua K.]

Hey yall!

 

I recently bought an Asus Tuf Dash F15 with a 12650h and a 3070 105w TGP. When I first got the laptop I was getting ~120FPS in Halo Infinite. Now, a couple weeks later, I'm noticing I'm getting about 80-90FPS on the same settings. Does anyone know why this could be? The only thing I can think of is in power plan. When I first got the computer, there was a power plan titled "performance". I tried switching to the power plan "ASUS Recommended". When I did so, the performance power plan disapeared and I haven't seen it since. Could this switch out of performance be the culprit? How could I bring it back to test? 

 

Any ideas on why my performance has dropped?

 

Thanks in advance for any tips and ideas

 

[unclewebb]

@Joshua K.

 

The Windows High Performance power plan is a hidden power plan on most laptops. As soon as you stop using it, this plan will disappear. 

 

Try running ThrottleStop. You can use this program to access the hidden power plans. Post some screenshots and attach a log file if you are not getting maximum performance.

 

Some Windows or BIOS updates can change the power limits which can reduce performance. Some ThrottleStop data should show the problem. 

[Joshua K.]

2 hours ago, unclewebb said:

@Joshua K.

 

The Windows High Performance power plan is a hidden power plan on most laptops. As soon as you stop using it, this plan will disappear. 

 

Try running ThrottleStop. You can use this program to access the hidden power plans. Post some screenshots and attach a log file if you are not getting maximum performance.

 

Some Windows or BIOS updates can change the power limits which can reduce performance. Some ThrottleStop data should show the problem. 

Hmm. I tried enabling "High Performance" but it didn't really make any changes. Maybe 5% more, but certainly not back to the original. I've attached a screenshot and a text file. I'm not really sure what I'm doing here lol. What can I do? Do you have any ideas one what could be going on?

 

 2023-03-25.txt

[unclewebb]

@Joshua K.

Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see your settings.

 

Your computer is running slow and sluggish. Not yet sure why.

[Joshua K.]

2 hours ago, unclewebb said:

@Joshua K.

Post screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see your settings.

 

Your computer is running slow and sluggish. Not yet sure why.

 

Here they are. Thank you so much for the help; I really appreciate it.

 

Out of curiosity, what tells you that its running slow and sluggish?

 

[unclewebb]

46 minutes ago, Joshua K. said:

slow and sluggish

Your first screenshot shows that the CPU is loaded but it is running at about half the speed it should be running at. Were you in the middle of a game or was your computer mostly idle when you took that screenshot?

 

Open the Task Manager when your computer is idle at the desktop and have a look for any background processes using the CPU significantly.

 

Try disabling Windows 11 Virtualization Based Security including core isolation memory integrity.

 

https://beebom.com/how-disable-virtualization-based-security-vbs-windows-11/

 

After you do this, reboot, and before you run ThrottleStop, delete the previous ThrottleStop.INI configuration file. Sometimes this file gets corrupted when VBS is enabled. Try running a test like Cinebench R23. Take a snapshot of ThrottleStop while your CPU is loaded running that test. What sort of final score do you get? Search Google to see if there are any scores that you can compare to. The 12650H is fairly new but there should be some scores to compare to. 

 

You can also open up the ThrottleStop Limit Reasons window. Watch for any boxes lighting up red which indicates throttling. Take a snapshot of this window if you are experiencing any throttling. 

 

Something is holding your CPU back from how it should be performing. Post another FIVR screenshot so I can confirm that VBS is disabled. A safe computer is great but not if it is killing performance. 

[Joshua K.]

The screenshot I took before was while the computer was idle. During idle there is usually around 4% usage. No single process uses very much at all.

 

I've deleted throttlestop.ini and rebooted with VBS disabled. Attached is a photo of throttle stop (including limits) with R23 running. Cinebench is using 95ish percent, with the rest going to miscellaneous processes like chrome and task manager. 

[Joshua K.]

I also just ran Cinebench R23 fully and got a score of 13525, which is much better than my last score of ~11000 (if I remember right). However, I'm still getting the worse FPS. 

[unclewebb]

@Joshua K.

I see a couple of problems. Your CPU is overheating and thermal throttling. This reduces performance and can cause inconsistent performance. How old is this laptop? The CPU heatsink and fan might need cleaning. Most likely it is just an under designed heatsink and fan. You cannot get maximum performance out of a CPU when it is overheating and throttling. 

 

Cinebench testing is not using the GPU. When you are playing a game, the heat from the GPU also needs to be dissipated. This could become a problem during any long gaming session as the heat builds up.

 

VR CURRENT throttling is a more serious problem. The voltage regulators might be under designed and not capable of providing enough current to the CPU. Intel mobile H series processors used to have a 45W TDP rating. If Asus is using voltage regulators based on this spec then that is going to be a problem when you try to operate your laptop with the CPU at 70W, 80W or 90W. VR CURRENT throttling can force the CPU to slow down significantly and it might remain throttled for an extended period of time until the voltage regulators cool back down. If these problems are new, it is possible that the high heat inside your laptop has damaged one or more of the voltage regulators over time.

 

Turn on the Log File option on the main screen of ThrottleStop and go play a game for at least 15 minutes. A log file will give a better indication of how serious these two problems are. When finished testing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file. You can find the log file in the ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach a log file to your next post. You can open it up and have a look for VR CURRENT showing up in the far right column of the log file. You might also see TEMP which indicates the CPU temperature is too high and your computer is thermal throttling.

 

Remember to quote me in your reply so I get notified. 

[Joshua K.]

54 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

@Joshua K.

I see a couple of problems. Your CPU is overheating and thermal throttling. This reduces performance and can cause inconsistent performance. How old is this laptop? The CPU heatsink and fan might need cleaning. Most likely it is just an under designed heatsink and fan. You cannot get maximum performance out of a CPU when it is overheating and throttling. 

 

Cinebench testing is not using the GPU. When you are playing a game, the heat from the GPU also needs to be dissipated. This could become a problem during any long gaming session as the heat builds up.

 

VR CURRENT throttling is a more serious problem. The voltage regulators might be under designed and not capable of providing enough current to the CPU. Intel mobile H series processors used to have a 45W TDP rating. If Asus is using voltage regulators based on this spec then that is going to be a problem when you try to operate your laptop with the CPU at 70W, 80W or 90W. VR CURRENT throttling can force the CPU to slow down significantly and it might remain throttled for an extended period of time until the voltage regulators cool back down. If these problems are new, it is possible that the high heat inside your laptop has damaged one or more of the voltage regulators over time.

 

Turn on the Log File option on the main screen of ThrottleStop and go play a game for at least 15 minutes. A log file will give a better indication of how serious these two problems are. When finished testing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file. You can find the log file in the ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach a log file to your next post. You can open it up and have a look for VR CURRENT showing up in the far right column of the log file. You might also see TEMP which indicates the CPU temperature is too high and your computer is thermal throttling.

 

Remember to quote me in your reply so I get notified. 

Hmmmm. This laptop is about a week old. I figured it would probably be thermally limited (alder lake is hooot), so if it was always like this that would make sense. But a week ago it performed a lot better. It just lost 20-30 FPS this last week. Could the VRMs have been damaged that quickly?

[Joshua K.]

Another piece of information: After turning off the VBS I was getting ~9700 in 3dMark. But after a system restart its performing back at 9300 again. VBS is still off. This makes no sense to me lol. Am I missing something?


Update on that: Another reset seemed to fix that and its performing in the 9700's again.


I do worry that the CPU isn't the culprit with the sudden FPS drop. The FPS drop occurred in Halo Infinite, which is a GPU heavy game. When playing Halo Infinite, my CPU utilization is only at 30-40%, but my GPU utilization is all the way cranked at 90%. The GPU is also constantly power limited, while the CPU isn't really limited at all. Could there be something wrong with the GPU configuration? What are your thoughts?

 

With that said, there has been a bit of an improvement in Halo Infinite. Maybe 5-10 more frames now. But still not what it was before. I was getting 100-110 FPS on medium preset, but I'm getting 90-100 on low preset. 

[unclewebb]

9 hours ago, Joshua K. said:

Could the VRMs have been damaged that quickly?

Anything is possible. Show me a ThrottleStop log file while you are playing a game for at least 15 minutes. Turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring in the Options window so your GPU performance data will be included in the log file. You have an issue with the voltage regulators. You need to find out how serious this problem is. Usually during VR throttling events, Intel Turbo Boost is disabled to reduce power consumption. That kills performance. That might be why your CPU was running so slow in the first screenshot you posted. 

 

Whether the voltage regulators are damaged or under designed, I would ask for a refund before it is too late. 

 

Inconsistent performance can be caused by random throttling problems. Poor performance can also be caused by too much stuff running in the background. When a computer is idle at the desktop, look at the C0% that ThrottleStop reports. This is a very accurate measure of what is running in the background. The higher the idle C0%, the less CPU cycles are available to run your games. It does not take a lot of computing power to run Windows when it is properly setup. It is all of the other junk that people randomly add to their computers that can slow things down. 

 

 

 

[Joshua K.]

1 hour ago, unclewebb said:

Anything is possible. Show me a ThrottleStop log file while you are playing a game for at least 15 minutes. Turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring in the Options window so your GPU performance data will be included in the log file. You have an issue with the voltage regulators. You need to find out how serious this problem is. Usually during VR throttling events, Intel Turbo Boost is disabled to reduce power consumption. That kills performance. That might be why your CPU was running so slow in the first screenshot you posted. 

 

Whether the voltage regulators are damaged or under designed, I would ask for a refund before it is too late. 

 

Inconsistent performance can be caused by random throttling problems. Poor performance can also be caused by too much stuff running in the background. When a computer is idle at the desktop, look at the C0% that ThrottleStop reports. This is a very accurate measure of what is running in the background. The higher the idle C0%, the less CPU cycles are available to run your games. It does not take a lot of computing power to run Windows when it is properly setup. It is all of the other junk that people randomly add to their computers that can slow things down. 

 

 

 

Okay, here it is: a log file with the GPU logging (I think). Hopefully I did it right lol 2023-03-26.txt

[unclewebb]

@Joshua K.

When the Nvidia GPU is active, it looks like CPU performance is cut in half. I am not sure why this is happening. Manufacturers used to use restrictive CPU power limits so there would be more power available for the Nvidia GPU. Something like this appears to be happening but Asus is using a new method to cap CPU speed and power consumption.

 

Here is an example from the log file.

   DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2023-03-26  12:05:40  20.16   41.1  100.0       0   74    1485    77   0.8341   19.3
2023-03-26  12:05:41  20.70   40.2  100.0       0   76    1485    77   0.8331   19.8
2023-03-26  12:05:42  20.26   41.9  100.0       0   74    1455    77   0.8600   19.5
2023-03-26  12:05:43  20.70   29.1  100.0       0   72    1455    77   0.8453   16.9
2023-03-26  12:05:44  24.28   21.3  100.0       0   78    1860    73   0.9993   17.7
2023-03-26  12:05:45  37.10   45.8  100.0       0   95    1860    73   1.2045   51.5   TEMP
2023-03-26  12:05:46  40.76   45.8  100.0       0   97    1710    75   1.2091   63.0   TEMP
2023-03-26  12:05:47  32.03   30.4  100.0       0   78    1710    75   0.9601   33.4
2023-03-26  12:05:48  28.77   30.8  100.0       0   78    1350    75   1.0385   26.7
2023-03-26  12:05:49  29.93   38.4  100.0       0   80    1350    75   0.9927   31.9
2023-03-26  12:05:50  25.84   33.9  100.0       0   77    1455    76   0.9430   24.9
2023-03-26  12:05:51  24.34   37.9  100.0       0   74    1455    76   0.8761   24.4

 

At the start of this part of the log file, the CPU multiplier is being held to approximately 20 to 21 when it should be over 40. For a couple of seconds, it is allowed to go up over 40, this triggers thermal throttling (TEMP) and then immediately power consumption and the CPU speed drops back down. My best guess is that Asus is using an embedded controller to limit the CPU when the Nvidia GPU is active.

 

I do not know how to solve this issue. If I bought a laptop that had this limitation, I would return it. You are being prevented from getting the full Intel rated performance out of your 12650H. 

[Joshua K.]

1 hour ago, unclewebb said:

 If I bought a laptop that had this limitation, I would return it. You are being prevented from getting the full Intel rated performance out of your 12650H. 

Even with the limitations, I got this laptop for a crazy deal so Its still the most powerful in the price that I could find. 

 

 

Since going through this process my battery life has dropped. Like from 4.5 hours to 1.5. How can I undo these changes to bring that battery life back? I think the drain comes from the fact that the GPU doesn't fully shut down. Before, on battery, the 3070 wouldn't even show up in task manager. But now it stays active in there.

[unclewebb]

1 hour ago, Joshua K. said:

a crazy deal

You got a good deal because the CPU only runs at half of its Intel rated speed. 

 

If you are finished testing with ThrottleStop, get rid of it. If you would like to continue using it then turn off Nvidia GPU monitoring in the Options window. Having ThrottleStop and the Task Manager both monitoring the Nvidia GPU can prevent the GPU from going into a low power state when it is idle. You need to restart ThrottleStop after you disable Nvidia GPU monitoring.  

 

Too many background tasks is the main cause of poor battery run time. Have a look in the Task Manager to see if you can find anything that does not need to be running all of the time. 

[Joshua K.]

7 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

If you would like to continue using it then turn off Nvidia GPU monitoring in the Options window. Having ThrottleStop and the Task Manager both monitoring the Nvidia GPU can prevent the GPU from going into a low power state when it is idle. You need to restart ThrottleStop after you disable Nvidia GPU monitoring.  

Nvidia GPU got disabled already, but it still isn't putting the GPU into low power state. Would uninstalling throttle stop and then restarting the computer let it go into that ultra low power state?

[Soundbored]

Possible reason for your laptop’s performance drop is that some Windows or BIOS updates can change the power limits which can reduce performance.

[Joshua K.]

13 minutes ago, Soundbored said:

Possible reason for your laptop’s performance drop is that some Windows or BIOS updates can change the power limits which can reduce performance.

The GPU has a listed TGP of 105 watts, and it usually hangs at that. It does occasionally boost to a higher wattage. Is there any way to make it boost more often since there is thermal headroom?

[Joshua K.]

19 hours ago, Joshua K. said:

Nvidia GPU got disabled already, but it still isn't putting the GPU into low power state. Would uninstalling throttle stop and then restarting the computer let it go into that ultra low power state?

Figured it out. Thank you guys for your help!

 

For anyone coming here for solutions, I just had to turn GPU mode back to "optimized". During testing, I put it on standard and forgot to switch it back.