NAS or server

[greenroost1445]

Hello,

So me and a couple of my buddies are starting a game dev studio and I want a place to store the stuff. Really don't want to put it on Google Drive and want to be able to host a website, and put storage on the system.

[Tea1337]

A server would fit your needs the best.

[CCap]

Honestly you could just install a bunch of HDD's into a rig, and use Bittorrent Sync for all of your files. 

 

I'm not too knowledgable about NAS-related systems though (clearly), so I would ask someone like Vitalius

[Vitalius]

Hello,

So me and a couple of my buddies are starting a game dev studio and I want a place to store the stuff. Really don't want to put it on Google Drive and want to be able to host a website, and put storage on the system.

Then you want FreeNAS, Debian, or Amahi (in that order imo).

FreeNAS can host Jails which are basically Virtual Machines. Getting LAMP (Linux Apache MySQL PHP) Server in a Jail and working has been done before, so FreeNAS could manage your storage while the LAMP jail could host your website.

It just entirely depends on your budget and how much time you have to learn how to use FreeNAS and such. There's a GUI, but for something like this, it'd be best if you knew a bit about configuring Linux and other things via CLI (think command prompt) already. FreeBSD is similar to Linux. Not the same though.

Though there are guides for LAMP hosting and tons of documentation/guides for FreeNAS, so even then, you can probably get that working over a weekend or something if you read enough. 

I do warn you, I've had strange issues with the latest versions of FreeNAS, so I suggest using something like 9.2.1.1 or earlier because I can't get plugins (what goes in the Jail) working correctly on 9.2.1.3 or 9.2.1.5. It's an ongoing issue I'm trouble shooting. It may just be my hardware but I doubt that.

Another option would be Debian and MG2R's epic guide for it. Debian is Linux based, so you could get LAMP running in it with ZFS (what makes FreeNAS awesome as a file server), so effectively the same setup as FreeNAS except without a GUI, but based on Linux and not FreeBSD (so if someone in your group is comfortable with Linux, they might manage it better than FreeBSD).

So yeah. Or you could try Amahi. It's a simpler Server Storage OS to install and manage, but I'm not sure on if you can get LAMP working with it or host a website from it though I know it does have plugins (similar to FreeNAS) as well, I haven't used it as much.

Note that ZFS is an awesome file system format, but is very hardware intensive. You need lots of ECC (server) RAM. Amahi doesn't use it, so that'd be best for a weaker hardware machine, but you don't have to use it in FreeNAS or Debian anyway, so they can also be weaker machines as well. I just realllly recommend it if it's important stuff you are saving (your work for your job is important imo).

[greenroost1445]

Then you want FreeNAS, Debian, or Amahi (in that order imo).

FreeNAS can host Jails which are basically Virtual Machines. Getting LAMP (Linux Apache MySQL PHP) Server in a Jail and working has been done before, so FreeNAS could manage your storage while the LAMP jail could host your website.

It just entirely depends on your budget and how much time you have to learn how to use FreeNAS and such. There's a GUI, but for something like this, it'd be best if you knew a bit about configuring Linux and other things via CLI (think command prompt) already. FreeBSD is similar to Linux. Not the same though.

Though there are guides for LAMP hosting and tons of documentation/guides for FreeNAS, so even then, you can probably get that working over a weekend or something if you read enough. 

I do warn you, I've had strange issues with the latest versions of FreeNAS, so I suggest using something like 9.2.1.1 or earlier because I can't get plugins (what goes in the Jail) working correctly on 9.2.1.3 or 9.2.1.5. It's an ongoing issue I'm trouble shooting. It may just be my hardware but I doubt that.

Another option would be Debian and MG2R's epic guide for it. Debian is Linux based, so you could get LAMP running in it with ZFS (what makes FreeNAS awesome as a file server), so effectively the same setup as FreeNAS except without a GUI, but based on Linux and not FreeBSD (so if someone in your group is comfortable with Linux, they might manage it better than FreeBSD).

So yeah. Or you could try Amahi. It's a simpler Server Storage OS to install and manage, but I'm not sure on if you can get LAMP working with it or host a website from it though I know it does have plugins (similar to FreeNAS) as well, I haven't used it as much.

Thank You soo much for your help

[Vitalius]

Thank You soo much for your help

You're welcome. If you want info on hardware recommendations for this server, I can give those too. Do note I updated that post a lot a minute ago, so re-read it to cover the things I added if you missed them.

[greenroost1445]

You're welcome. If you want info on hardware recommendations for this server, I can give those too. Do note I updated that post a lot a minute ago, so re-read it to cover the things I added if you missed them.

What would be a good hardware spec that a group of 5-6 could grow into???

[Vitalius]

What would be a good hardware spec that a group of 5-6 could grow into???

Depends. Budget and amount of data you'd need to store/write weekly? 

This is the base thing I usually choose for FreeNAS builds which means it would work well for many, if not all, options:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

Motherboard: ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard ($280.00 @ Newegg)

RAM: TWO Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DIMMs ($175.00 @ Newegg) 

Storage:  Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($189.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage:  Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($189.99 @ Newegg) 

Case:  Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case  ($89.56 @ Mwave) 

Power Supply:  Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($120.00 @ Newegg) 

Total: $1044.54

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-07 22:45 EDT-0400)

M-ITX, 4 cores, 16GB of ECC RAM (you might want more for hosting the server), and 8TB of raw storage, or 4TB of RAID 1 (i.e. redundancy) storage. You can leave off the second stick of Kingston RAM if you don't need 4-8TB of space and can expand later. 

The case would be a pain to work in, but hey, it's M-ITX. You can buy a bigger one if space isn't a concern (keep the motherboard, it's gold for this size/performance/price).

[greenroost1445]

Depends. Budget and amount of data you'd need to store/write weekly? 

This is the base thing I usually choose for FreeNAS builds which means it would work well for many, if not all, options:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

 

Storage:  Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($189.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage:  Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($189.99 @ Newegg) 

Case:  Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case  ($89.56 @ Mwave) 

Power Supply:  Corsair RM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $0.00) 

Other: ASRock C2550D4I Mini ITX Server Motherboard ($280.00)

Other: TWO Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DIMMs ($175.00)

Total: $924.54

(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-07 22:45 EDT-0400)

Well The price is yet to be determined and the store/write about 2TB... Unity doesn't take up much space... We might get cryengine later but not now

[Vitalius]

Well The price is yet to be determined and the store/write about 2TB... Unity doesn't take up much space... We might get cryengine later but not now

I updated it a lot (as I do) via editing. lol I'll try to stop that.  

The price went up because that was for someone who already owned the PSU. You can get a cheaper/better one for less.

[greenroost1445]

I updated it a lot (as I do) via editing. lol I'll try to stop that.  

The price went up because that was for someone who already owned the PSU. You can get a cheaper/better one for less.

Thank you so much that badge is well earned... I suppose another reason why i love this community i suppose

[Vitalius]

Thank you so much that badge is well earned... I suppose another reason why i love this community i suppose

Indeed. Thank the mods. They gave it to me.

Note that if you feel like you need more performance, the C2550D4I has a bigger brother called the C2750D4I. The only difference is 4 more cores (for a total of 8 which is EPIC in an Atom CPU, which is highly efficient as well) and $120. That's a lot for only 4 more cores. Just depends on your use case and how important or big your website will be (depends on how many people hit it). 

I love this community as well. So many knowledgeable and kind people here. l

[greenroost1445]

Indeed. Thank the mods. They gave it to me.

Note that if you feel like you need more performance, the C2550D4I has a bigger brother called the C2750D4I. The only difference is 4 more cores (for a total of 8 which is EPIC in an Atom CPU, which is highly efficient as well) and $120. That's a lot for only 4 more cores. Just depends on your use case and how important or big your website will be (depends on how many people hit it). 

I love this community as well. So many knowledgeable and kind people here. l

Since there are only 6 of us and uploading to server will be sporatic at best so I think it will be fine

[wpirobotbuilder]

Note that if you feel like you need more performance, the C2550D4I has a bigger brother called the C2750D4I. The only difference is 4 more cores (for a total of 8 which is EPIC in an Atom CPU, which is highly efficient as well) and $120. That's a lot for only 4 more cores. Just depends on your use case and how important or big your website will be (depends on how many people hit it). 

@greenroost1445 if you go the FreeNAS route (recommended!) and have highly compressible data, I recommend going for the C2750 based board. It will enable you to set a much higher compression level (gzip9 instead of lz4) without much performance degradation, and shouldn't affect single-threaded performance much (same clock speed). Also recommended if you end up having lots of users connecting at once.

 

Given your use case the 4-core option would be suitable too

[greenroost1445]

@greenroost1445 if you go the FreeNAS route (recommended!) and have highly compressible data, I recommend going for the C2750 based board. It will enable you to set a much higher compression level (gzip9 instead of lz4) without much performance degradation, and shouldn't affect single-threaded performance much (same clock speed). Also recommended if you end up having lots of users connecting at once.

 

Given your use case the 4-core option would be suitable too

Thank you but  I think we'll never top over 10 users... hopefully

[alpenwasser]

@greenroost1445 if you go the FreeNAS route (recommended!) and have highly compressible data, I recommend going for the C2750 based board. It will enable you to set a much higher compression level (gzip9 instead of lz4) without much performance degradation, and shouldn't affect single-threaded performance much (same clock speed). Also recommended if you end up having lots of users connecting at once.

 

Given your use case the 4-core option would be suitable too

Stumbled upon this post a while back when lz4 was introduced,

thought I'd mention it.

One thing I consider pretty neat about lz4 compression (I haven't

seen it mentioned for the other compression algorithms ZFS uses,

if they have this feature too by now, feel free to educate me )

is the 'early abort' feature.

Basically, if your data is not compressible, after a comparatively

short time, lz4 will notice and just stop trying to compress it,

instead of trying to compress it even though it can't be.

Just thought I'd mention this as this is a rather important feature

for my personal use (lots of multimedia files which are already

compressed with audio/video codecs).

[wpirobotbuilder]

One thing I consider pretty neat about lz4 compression (I haven't

seen it mentioned for the other compression algorithms ZFS uses,

if they have this feature too by now, feel free to educate me )

is the 'early abort' feature

Yep, it's supposed to cut off the algorithm if it can't achieve a minimum compression ratio (I think it's 1.05x) which is freaking awesome for incompressible data like media.

[Vitalius]

-snip-

Just thought I'd add this to the encrypt thing:

 

 

You're going to get these messages.. Your pool is almost certainly *NOT* encrypted. Your CPU, however, supports hardware crypto, but believe me, if you were encrypting your pool, you'd know, because you'd have to decrypt it in order to mount the pool when you restarted the box.

So apparently yeah, you would have to remount the drives after each reboot of FreeNAS using the passphrase.That's from the thread and such.

That is awesome about lz4 though. I had heard about that which is pretty useful. It will also just not even try and compress it if it's already in a compressed format (i.e. lossy compression such as .mp3 or .mp4 and such).

[alpenwasser]

Yep, it's supposed to cut off the algorithm if it can't achieve a minimum compression ratio (I think it's 1.05x) which is freaking awesome for incompressible data like media.

 

Yeah, pretty awesome indeed.

According to that post it's 12.5%, though I'm not sure if every

ZFS version has set it at the same threshold, so 1.05 might be

valid as well.

The performance on incompressible data is a large improvement, this comes from an 'early abort' feature, if ZFS detects that the compression savings is less than 12.5% then compression is aborted and the block is written uncompressed (especially useful for large multimedia files that are already compressed).

 

Just thought I'd add this to the encrypt thing:

 

So apparently yeah, you would have to remount the drives after each reboot of FreeNAS using the passphrase.That's from the thread and such.

Hm, interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Just going by

this info it seems that there is security being suggested to the user

where there isn't any.

[MrStraightface]

Note that ZFS is an awesome file system format, but is very hardware intensive. You need lots of ECC (server) RAM. Amahi doesn't use it, so that'd be best for a weaker hardware machine, but you don't have to use it in FreeNAS or Debian anyway, so they can also be weaker machines as well. I just realllly recommend it if it's important stuff you are saving (your work for your job is important imo).

It is my understanding that you do have to use it in order to use apps in Freenas.  Is this still true?  Everything I read suggested UFS does not support apps.

 

I have an ASUS P5B w/ an Intel e6600 w/ 4GB (BIOS only recognized 3 for some reason) and got scared when I read all the online information

[Madmanchris1]

It is my understanding that you do have to use it in order to use apps in Freenas.  Is this still true?  Everything I read suggested UFS does not support apps.

 

I have an ASUS P5B w/ an Intel e6600 w/ 4GB (BIOS only recognized 3 for some reason) and got scared when I read all the online information

 

if by apps you mean plugins like plex ect, then yes you do need to use zfs for them to work.

 

Amahi has apps and is apparently more user friendly although i haven't used it.

[Vitalius]

It is my understanding that you do have to use it in order to use apps in Freenas.  Is this still true?  Everything I read suggested UFS does not support apps.

 

I have an ASUS P5B w/ an Intel e6600 w/ 4GB (BIOS only recognized 3 for some reason) and got scared when I read all the online information

if by apps you mean plugins like plex ect, then yes you do need to use zfs for them to work.

 

Amahi has apps and is apparently more user friendly although i haven't used it.

This^

That's one thing I always forget about FreeNAS. The requirement for ZFS to use Plugins. It's kind of an important one.