Double PC streaming setups - need help please :(

[DrEnough]

Hello, sorry to bother you here, just wanted to ask about double PC streaming HW setup, my first PC (which I have at home and running) has:

Gaming PC:

CPU: Intel i7 13700k (with Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black)

MB: ASUS PRIME Z790-A WIFI

GPU: MSI GeForce RTX 4080 16GB SUPRIM X

RAM: Kingston FURY Renegade 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 6000 CL32 

PSU: Be quiet! Straight Power 11 Platinum - 1000W

CASE: LIAN-LI O11 Dynamic EVO, grey

SSD (2x): Kingston SSD KC3000, M.2 - 1TB

OS: WIN 11

MONITOR: ASUS ROG Swift PG279QM - LED monitor 27" (playing on 144Hz, 2k)

MIC: Shure MV7 K black

EXTERNAL AUDIO CARD: Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3RD Generation

EXTERNAL GAME CAPTURE CARD: Elgato Game Capture HD60 X, USB 3.0

 

And last thing I need is second streaming PC without dedicated GPU (if that's not problem and if it would work)

Streaming PC (raw setup):

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700G (with Scythe SCNJ-5000 Ninja 5 (because I already have this one as spare part at home)

MB: ASUS ROG STRIX B550-A GAMING

RAM: Patriot VIPER 4 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3200 CL16, Blackout Series

PSU: Be quiet! Straight Power 11 Platinum - 1000W (which I already have at home as spare PSU)

SSD: Kingston SSD KC3000, M.2 - 1TB

CASE: NZXT H440 (old one which I have at home)

OS: Win 10 (have spare USB license)

MONITOR: old one which I already have at home 25" AOC AG251FG (fullHD, 60 - 240Hz)

 

Would be AMD ryzen 5700g integrated GPU enough to handle this + that monitor which would be running at 60Hz top because it would be just screen for chat please ?

I would be streaming at 1080p 60Hz

[YoungBlade]

The 5700G is actually overkill for a streaming system. You should use the CPU for encoding, not the GPU, as the quality is generally going to be better and if all the computer is doing at the same time is displaying chat, then the CPU will easily be able to handle that load. You could easily use an i3 10100F or Ryzen 3 4100 with a cheap dGPU and just use the CPU for encoding with those and also see no problems.

 

The reason that streaming on the same PC can cause issues is that the PC is also doing something intensive at the same time - in this case, gaming. If the PC is only steaming and not doing anything else, basically any quad-core or better CPU released in the last 5 years should be able to handle it with ease.

[DrEnough]

The reason why I picked integrated GPU is because I dont wanna buy dedicated one. But thank you a lot!

[Razercake]

I'm curious why you are going for a dual PC setup, just something you want? if your main PC has a 4080 you can reliably stream with the Nvenc encoder. doubt you'd even see much quality difference. I'm not asking to say "oh why would you do that, this is better" just interested in the reasoning behind it, back when I did a dual pc setup I was under the false impression the quality would be better it wasn't. RTX cards really made streaming on 1 pc a lot better with the new encoder.

 

but for dual pc stuff, as youngblade said. since it only has to run the stream it won't need as much power as the gaming pc cause it isn't juggling all of it at the same time.

[Electronics Wizardy]

Id probably  with a 13600k on the streaming pc, or anouther intel chip. They got much better hardware encoders/decoders if you ever want to use those, and there a faster cpu too.

[YoungBlade]

4 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Id probably  with a 13600k on the streaming pc, or anouther intel chip. They got much better hardware encoders/decoders if you ever want to use those, and there a faster cpu too.

What is the point of using hardware encoding for a secondary streaming PC? Why even make a secondary streaming PC at all if you're just going to use an Intel iGPU that you already have in your primary system that's currently sitting idle?

 

And how much horsepower do you think streaming requires? Why do you need a 14 core CPU to receive chat messages and send a single data stream over the Internet?

[Electronics Wizardy]

3 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

What is the point of using hardware encoding for a secondary streaming PC? Why even make a secondary streaming PC at all if you're just going to use an Intel iGPU that you already have in your primary system that's currently sitting idle?

 

Its nice to have, and since the intel chips cost about the same, might as well get the one with the better encoder on board.

 

4 minutes ago, YoungBlade said:

 

And how much horsepower do you think streaming requires? Why do you need a 14 core CPU to receive chat messages and send a single data stream over the Internet?

Might as well get the i5s as there faster for about the same price. 

 

And if your putting the effort in a second pc for streaming, you probably want the best quality you can get, and a faster chip will give you better quality

 

Also when 4k or av1 becomes common, you will want a lot more cpu performance, so might as well get the faster chip.

[YoungBlade]

5 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Its nice to have, and since the intel chips cost about the same, might as well get the one with the better encoder on board.

 

Might as well get the i5s as there faster for about the same price. 

 

And if your putting the effort in a second pc for streaming, you probably want the best quality you can get, and a faster chip will give you better quality

 

Also when 4k or av1 becomes common, you will want a lot more cpu performance, so might as well get the faster chip.

But if you're going to use the iGPU for the encoding, then a faster chip won't get you any better quality - that's where I'm very confused. You're saying get Intel for the better iGPU encoding, but then you're saying that you want CPU performance for better quality. Those two things are mutually exclusive - you either use hardware encoding or you use software encoding.

 

Also, the i5 13600K is much more expensive than the 5700G. The former is $310 and the latter is $180, not to mention that motherboard pricing heavily favors an AM4 build over LGA 1700 on top of that.

 

Finally, there is no point in getting a 13th gen, 14 core CPU for streaming, even if you use hardware encoding, and even with AV1 coming, because you'll still have 80% of the cores sitting around doing nothing. Steaming just doesn't require that much horsepower on its own, which is why a lot of streamers don't bother with a secondary PC anymore.

[Mark Kaine]

So how is this going to work, you have a capture card in your main PC and some AMD igpu in your "streaming pc", how do you get the video to the streaming pc in the first place?

[DrEnough]

29 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

So how is this going to work, you have a capture card in your main PC and some AMD igpu in your "streaming pc", how do you get the video to the streaming pc in the first place?

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/dual-pc-streaming.html

https://www.chillblast.com/learn/what-is-dual-pc-streaming-and-is-it-worth-it/amp/

[DrEnough]

2 hours ago, Razercake said:

I'm curious why you are going for a dual PC setup, just something you want? if your main PC has a 4080 you can reliably stream with the Nvenc encoder. doubt you'd even see much quality difference. I'm not asking to say "oh why would you do that, this is better" just interested in the reasoning behind it, back when I did a dual pc setup I was under the false impression the quality would be better it wasn't. RTX cards really made streaming on 1 pc a lot better with the new encoder.

 

but for dual pc stuff, as youngblade said. since it only has to run the stream it won't need as much power as the gaming pc cause it isn't juggling all of it at the same time.

Mostly because I don't wanna stress my gaming PC that much, when running stream + AAA game/s and other things in the background mostly, I want minimum stress possible for my gaming PC, meaning that I want my gaming PC to be focused only on game + I already have multiple spare parts at home, like few PSU, Case, WIN10, CPU Coolers, monitor

[Razercake]

2 minutes ago, DrEnough said:

Mostly because I don't wanna stress my gaming PC that much, when running stream + AAA game/s and other things in the background mostly, I want minimum stress possible for my gaming PC, meaning that I want my gaming PC to be focused only on game + I already have multiple parts at home, like few PSU, Case, WIN10, CPU Coolers, monitor

The new Nvenc encoder isn't using the same part of the GPU as those games, AFAIK its a completely different chip used. unless you have RTX on I believe. 

 

Nvidia NVENC (short for Nvidia Encoder) is a feature in Nvidia graphics cards that performs video encoding, offloading this compute-intensive task from the CPU to a dedicated part of the GPU. - Source

 

NVIDIA GPUs contain one or more hardware-based decoder and encoder(s) (separate from the CUDA cores) which provides fully-accelerated hardware-based video decoding and encoding for several popular codecs. With decoding/encoding offloaded, the graphics engine and the CPU are free for other operations. - Source 

 

the GPU encoder is comparable to medium-slow preset on x264?

here is a good video, that shows them side by side with different bitrates. if you are interested, in learning more. you might be overengineering a setup to avoid something that isn't a problem in the first place, that being said its fun to run a 2 pc setup. you will have some quirks with getting everything setup, audio etc. but if you already have a good amount of the parts go for it.

I have a 1 suggestion that I found really useful when doing a 2 pc setup.

• Mouse without borders - lets you use 1 mouse & keyboard on both computers. this way even with a 2 pc setup the other pc will pretty much function as another monitor.

[Mark Kaine]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:05 AM, Razercake said:

The new Nvenc encoder isn't using the same part of the GPU as those games, AFAIK its a completely different chip used. unless you have RTX on I believe. 

yeap. im not sure about rtx, but i think the encoding should still be a seperate engine... with Shadowplay there's basically zero impact recording/ streaming (if it doesn't bug out which happens,  but rarely) 

 

i should know because I have the video encode engine in my afterburner OSD, i however rarely to never use "rtx features" (such as "raytracing") because i think they suck (other then DLSS, which is sometimes useful and apparently has nothing to do with the seperate video engines)