Help please :(

[DuckQuack]

So I want to upgrade a server I have that runs on an old Xeon processor and I am looking at the currently available processors for the job . Now I am kind of lost here cause I might be missing important info but why would I buy a new Xeon or Epyc that cost thousands right now rather than going for a 7950x3d which has decent enough cache . I am looking at OLTP workloads with mainly SQL server running on the system. And on that system around 20-25 clients will be online at the time running SAP. 

Why would I want to buy server chips ? Are they better pieces of silicon that last longer? Is Ryzen 9 not suitable for 24/7 usage ? If anyone could help me understand , I would appreciate it

 

Thanks!

Quack.

[Radium_Angel]

ECC RAM. Xeons have it, and while SOME AMD chips support it, most of the boards those chips go into, don't.

[Ottoman420]

3 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

So I want to upgrade a server I have that runs on an old Xeon processor and I am looking at the currently available processors for the job . Now I am kind of lost here cause I might be missing important info but why would I buy a new Xeon or Epyc that cost thousands right now rather than going for a 7950x3d which has decent enough cache . I am looking at OLTP workloads with mainly SQL server running on the system. And on that system around 20-25 clients will be online at the time running SAP. 

Why would I want to buy server chips ? Are they better pieces of silicon that last longer? Is Ryzen 9 not suitable for 24/7 usage ? If anyone could help me understand , I would appreciate it

 

Thanks!

Quack.

Just some random info about the quality fo scilicon for AMD, The Thredripper chips are not quality top binned scilicon but they get through with brute force of cores.

 

With regards to 24/7 operation i dont think a ryzen or intel consumer chip will have any issues with that.

[Dedayog]

8 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

So I want to upgrade a server I have that runs on an old Xeon processor and I am looking at the currently available processors for the job . Now I am kind of lost here cause I might be missing important info but why would I buy a new Xeon or Epyc that cost thousands right now rather than going for a 7950x3d which has decent enough cache . I am looking at OLTP workloads with mainly SQL server running on the system. And on that system around 20-25 clients will be online at the time running SAP. 

Why would I want to buy server chips ? Are they better pieces of silicon that last longer? Is Ryzen 9 not suitable for 24/7 usage ? If anyone could help me understand , I would appreciate it

 

Thanks!

Quack.

Server grade items are more reliable across the board, but I think you balance that with the severity and workloads they are dealing with.

 

Normal people having a "server" or NAS don't run into the extreme usage that server grade items are made for.  Consumer CPUs handle our needs even 24/7 without issue.  My Plex has been running 24/7 for 4 years now.  Simple Ryzen 1600.

 

A true server in a business handles 100x or 1000x the throughput or tasks that your home server will.  

 

Just like anything else, Commercial or Industrial grade has it's uses.  You need to ask if you use the item to that level. 

[DuckQuack]

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

ECC RAM. Xeons have it, and while SOME AMD chips support it, most of the boards those chips go into, don't.

Of course , I am not going to be fooled by non existant ecc ram support  Thanks . I will be choosing boards that do support. I already have some RDimms in mind

[Radium_Angel]

Just now, DuckQuack said:

Of course , I am not going to be fooled by non existant ecc ram support  Thanks . I will be choosing boards that do support. I already have some RDimms in mind

And don't discount simple market-share inertia. Xeon's have always been touted a must-have for business needs, and Intel's market salespitch is strong (and they were they 1st with business-grade chips)

Do you need a Xeon? Probably not.

I only run Xeons in my systems because of PCIe lanes and ECC support.

 

Oh, and scalability (I love running dual and quad Xeon systems)

But none of that is needed, just fun

[DuckQuack]

2 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Server grade items are more reliable across the board, but I think you balance that with the severity and workloads they are dealing with.

 

Normal people having a "server" or NAS don't run into the extreme usage that server grade items are made for.  Consumer CPUs handle our needs even 24/7 without issue.  My Plex has been running 24/7 for 4 years now.  Simple Ryzen 1600.

 

A true server in a business handles 100x or 1000x the throughput or tasks that your home server will.  

 

Just like anything else, Commercial or Industrial grade has it's uses.  You need to ask if you use the item to that level. 

As I mentioned I will be using SQL Server for 25 clients , meaning its for business use . Now how can my clients benefit from a fast server with a sensible cost for me the builder? Thats what I am trying to figure out , because some sites say that I need to avoid low clock speed cores for SQL implementations but if I look into high clock speed server Cpus they are very expensive . I am not sure the work the server will be doing can offset those costs in even 5 years , if we're talking for a total system cost of €5-7k , sure the severity of loosing data is high so I am going to invest on great nvme drives with a raid 10 setup and good ram but what about the rest of the system  

[Radium_Angel]

3 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

As I mentioned I will be using SQL Server for 25 clients , meaning its for business use . Now how can my clients benefit from a fast server with a sensible cost for me the builder? Thats what I am trying to figure out , because some sites say that I need to avoid low clock speed cores for SQL implementations but if I look into high clock speed server Cpus they are very expensive . I am not sure the work the server will be doing can offset those costs in even 5 years , if we're talking for a total system cost of €5-7k , sure the severity of loosing data is high so I am going to invest on great nvme drives with a raid 10 setup and good ram but what about the rest of the system  

I'm curious here. You are worried about cost, yet you say you have 25 clients.

Do you not charge them the cost for the new faster system?

[DuckQuack]

4 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

I'm curious here. You are worried about cost, yet you say you have 25 clients.

Do you not charge them the cost for the new faster system?

Clients meaning , people who connect to the server , as in 25 terminals , not 25 customers . Sorry for the confusion

 

[PDifolco]

11 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

As I mentioned I will be using SQL Server for 25 clients , meaning its for business use . Now how can my clients benefit from a fast server with a sensible cost for me the builder? Thats what I am trying to figure out , because some sites say that I need to avoid low clock speed cores for SQL implementations but if I look into high clock speed server Cpus they are very expensive . I am not sure the work the server will be doing can offset those costs in even 5 years , if we're talking for a total system cost of €5-7k , sure the severity of loosing data is high so I am going to invest on great nvme drives with a raid 10 setup and good ram but what about the rest of the system  

I'd go for a 5950x or a Threadripper 3950x if you really need ECC, both in the $500-$800 range

 

[Radium_Angel]

3 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

Clients meaning , people who connect to the server , as in 25 terminals , not 25 customers . Sorry for the confusion

 

Gotcha, no worries.

As to what CPU is better for SQL, this may help

 

https://glennsqlperformance.com/2020/12/07/choosing-a-processor-for-sql-server/

 

[DuckQuack]

1 hour ago, Radium_Angel said:

Gotcha, no worries.

As to what CPU is better for SQL, this may help

 

https://glennsqlperformance.com/2020/12/07/choosing-a-processor-for-sql-server/

 

Yes I read this before coming here and to be honest it confused me even more , making my choice even more uncertain

[Radium_Angel]

53 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

Yes I read this before coming here and to be honest it confused me even more , making my choice even more uncertain

Ok, let's approach it from a different angle then:

 

What kind of SQL work are your clients doing?

[DuckQuack]

22 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Ok, let's approach it from a different angle then:

 

What kind of SQL work are your clients doing?

We have a number of tables , beeing accessed by this programm called Sap business one , and they are making many small changes on the tables . I.e processing invoices , creating records , etc. No big files. Reporting takes a lot of time now and some queries , which I am aiming to improve by getting better hardware. Optimizing the code is something we cannot do currently as it is outsourced but we can help with better hardware. I for one know that DDR5 ram with 6000mhz at 32 or a better ratio will give us a significant boost from the current outdated 1333mhz

[Radium_Angel]

17 minutes ago, DuckQuack said:

DDR5 ram with 6000mhz

That's some pretty expensive stuff for marginal gains, just a fair warning.

 

What are the specs of your existing system?

IIRC SQL charges per core, have you taken into account the increased cost of the SQL licensing?

[Radium_Angel]

https://dba.stackexchange.com/questions/169123/cpu-clock-speed-versus-cpu-core-count-higher-ghz-or-more-cores-for-sql-server

 

Looks like speed trumps core count