enable rapid?

[bbqsauce]

Is enabling rapid useful on the 840 evo?

 

I have more than sufficient ram in my system. Could I see actual real world performance improvements?

[Noctus]

I'm also interested to know this.

[Akolyte]

RAPID means you use some of your system memory as I guess super speed cache.  This means it can be super fast but if your system looses power or something files can be corrupted.  So for reliability, I wouldn't enable rapid, but for pure speed sure. 

[bbqsauce]

RAPID means you use some of your system memory as I guess super speed cache.  This means it can be super fast but if your system looses power or something files can be corrupted.  So for reliability, I wouldn't enable rapid, but for pure speed sure. 

on the samsung page they stated that they comply to certain stands of data loss protection, flushing the dram.

Or thats what i interpret. not really sure.

[TheProfosist]

Yes dooo it! Makes everything even snappier. Well not everything, everything sub 2GB I believe.

[bbqsauce]

Yes dooo it! Makes everything even snappier. Well not everything, everything sub 2GB I believe.

well i understand how it works (basically like a 1gb ram disk) but since i have not used ram disk before,

i wonder if it actually yields real world performance improvements that i could notice 

[TheProfosist]

well i understand how it works (basically like a 1gb ram disk) but since i have not used ram disk before,

i wonder if it actually yields real world performance improvements that i could notice

Its not a ram disk its a ram cache which it different. A ram disk is a scratch disc directly running off your ram. A ram cache working kinda like caching a hdd with a ssd excapt a ssd with ram so even faster.

Youll notice just a snappier system the evo os design for this tech because it also has turbo write. It meant to a boot and programs drive speeding up all the small files whis is what most if not all of that is made of. Throw some big sequential files at it and speed gets halfed. But all of the speed is designed to recognize this and turn off or not be utilized.

This is unlike sandforce where it tries to compress everything whether its compressable or not but there wouldnt be any real way to know that beforehand.

[bbqsauce]

Its not a ram disk its a ram cache which it different. A ram disk is a scratch disc directly running off your ram. A ram cache working kinda like caching a hdd with a ssd excapt a ssd with ram so even faster.

Youll notice just a snappier system the evo os design for this tech because it also has turbo write. It meant to a boot and programs drive speeding up all the small files whis is what most if not all of that is made of. Throw some big sequential files at it and speed gets halfed. But all of the speed is designed to recognize this and turn off or not be utilized.

This is unlike sandforce where it tries to compress everything whether its compressable or not but there wouldnt be any real way to know that beforehand.

hm, ok thanks for the insight.

Will data loss be an issue in times of a powerloss? or even BSOD

[hojnikb]

Disable it. It wont to any good in real life situation, unless you're writting really small files all the time or you're crazy about high bench numbers.

[TheProfosist]

hm, ok thanks for the insight.

Will data loss be an issue in times of a powerloss? or even BSOD

Powerloss is a possibility on writes. Ill have to look into it. All depends what it caches and how. How often do you loose power or BSOD.

[TheProfosist]

Disable it. It wont to any good in real life situation, unless you're writting really small files all the time or you're crazy about high bench numbers.

Umm thats what the os and programs do the deal with sub 2gb usually sub 2gb all the time. It could even benefit games since most of those files are that small as well.

[bbqsauce]

Powerloss is a possibility on writes. Ill have to look into it. All depends what it caches and how. How often do you loose power or BSOD.

on my new rig it hasn't bsod or power loss before. About a month now. Its quite stable and it might only happen once in a blue moon. Just wondering about the possibility if it happens that's all.

[hojnikb]

Umm thats what the os and programs do the deal with sub 2gb usually sub 2gb all the time. It could even benefit games since most of those files are that small as well.

Real small writes as in few kilobytes in size... SSDs usually reach their full sequential speeds, once you start writting files larger than 512KB.

Also rapid cache is useless if its empty

[TheProfosist]

on my new rig it hasn't bsod or power loss before. About a month now. Its quite stable and it might only happen once in a blue moon. Just wondering about the possibility if it happens that's all.

You should be fine then. When I have some more time ill look into it more but there will likely be some issue if you loose power. I did see a whit paper on Samsung RAPID so ill see if I can get a hold of it.

Real small writes as in few kilobytes in size... SSDs usually reach their full sequential speeds, once you start writting files larger than 512KB.

Also rapid cache is useless if its empty

a few kb to a few mb ill still help also with turbo write the EVO is rather limited on it "full sequential speed" on large tranfers since turbo write can only use a certain amount of the drive. For no until I do more research youll have to suffice with this tom's hardware review of the 840 EVO since they do a decent job with RAPID and Turbo Write http://goo.gl/qhlCLh .

[hojnikb]

Again...

 

Turbowrite --- small NAND area acting like SLC (by stuffing only one bit per cell) to increase sequential write

RAPID -- software ram cache, that caches read/writes and increases speed of the files, that are already in the cache.

[TheProfosist]

Again...

Turbowrite --- small NAND area acting like SLC (by stuffing only one bit per cell) to increase sequential write

RAPID -- software ram cache, that caches read/writes and increases speed of the files, that are already in the cache.

Thats where your wrong and where rapid isnt like a ssd caching a hdd. The files dont already need to be in the cache to be accelerated. Its far closer to the cache that is already built into a hdd or ssd. You yourself mentioned the benefit with benchmarks which definitely wouldnt be something thats already in the cache. Also ram is volitile so what would happen to the cached files on a restart or shutdown?

[hojnikb]

Please check, what caching actually means before making such statements

[TheProfosist]

Please check, what caching actually means before making such statements

There is a difference between a cache and caching... The bit of memory on a HDD 16, 32, 64MB is a cache they are even larger on SSDs. That is what RAID seems to act like not say something like a SSD caching a HDD. This is basicaly what I said above in a few different words.

Oh also there are marvel controllers (I have one in my X79 Deluxe) that allow you to use SSD(s) as a cache for the HDD(s) as well as caching the HDD.

[hojnikb]

and RAPID works the same way, only it uses RAM instead of flash.

[TheProfosist]

and RAPID works the same way, only it uses RAM instead of flash.

"works the same way" as what? I was talking about two different things both times.

[hojnikb]

Different only in a sense of media, that files are stored. But caching works the same way, whenever its in flash, dram or anything else for that matter.

It's only that with dram, you can potentially lose data (files that don't get flushed to the drive), while flash based cache (like turbowrite) cant really lose data in case of powerloss.

 

Its really all the same principle, only different media

 

An exeption of this rule would be DRAM found in SSDs, as it's not really used for caching (used only few MBs, just to increase random speeds and minimize WA) but instead acts as a storage for redirection tables.

[hojnikb]

PS:

RAID has nothing to do with caching or anything really we're discussing right now

[TheProfosist]

Different only in a sense of media, that files are stored. But caching works the same way, whenever its in flash, dram or anything else for that matter.

It's only that with dram, you can potentially lose data (files that don't get flushed to the drive), while flash based cache (like turbowrite) cant really lose data in case of powerloss.

 

Its really all the same principle, only different media

 

An exeption of this rule would be DRAM found in SSDs, as it's not really used for caching (used only few MBs, just to increase random speeds and minimize WA) but instead acts as a storage for redirection tables.

What I was trying to point out was there is a difference between a cache and caching.

Well I found that white paper I was looking for. Here it is in case youd like to read it as well. http://goo.gl/DiTCrK

RAPID is a cache fro writes and does caching for reads and for your powerloss thing that you keep going on about:

"RAPID was specifically designed to not add any additional risk to user or system data, even in the event of a power-loss. In fact, RAPID strictly adheres to Windows conventions in its treatment of any buffered writes in DRAM -- RAPID obeys all “flush” commands, so any writes buffered by RAPID will make it to the persistent media just like the Windows OS cache or the HDD cache. (Consequently, the data loss risk is identical to that of Windows OS cache or HDD cache)."

The only thing that I had wrong was the max memory useable is 1GB not two, which I read in at least one review.

Here is something on that is cache's the small files as well:

"For example, files that are meaningless to cache (like large media files) are automatically dismissed. Finally, the hot data is cumulative and persistent across multiple sessions and reboots such that if you have been working on a specific files or applications, you will be able to access that data faster as well. Your Microsoft Outlook email database, for example, would be a prime target for cache acceleration."

[TheProfosist]

@bbqsauce see the above post

[bbqsauce]

@bbqsauce see the above post

from what i saw looking around it agrees with what you said.