CPU Overclocking

[Azowel]

Hi !

I'm gonna build a new (ITX) PC

Here is the hypothetic config:

RTX 4070 (or RTX 4060 Ti)

i5-13600KF (or i5 non K or i7 non K)

Z690-I (or B660-I if non K)

2x16Go RAM 5600MHz DDR5

SSD 2To NVMe TLC

Lian Li A4H2O

AIO 2x120mm

PSU 750W (or 650W ?)

 

My screen resolution is 1440p, I want to play with 60+ fps for 6-7 years in every game at high resolution minimum.In 7 years I want to upgrade my config only with a RTX xx50 or RTX xx70 in order to have a computer that can play in high resolution 60+fps most games for 2-3 years.

 

It is going to be my first PC build and it's really hard to know if buying Z690 + K processor is better than B660 + non K processor.

 

[FI Fheonix]

Just now, Azowel said:

Hi !

I'm gonna build a new (ITX) PC

Here is the hypothetic config:

RTX 4070 (or RTX 4060 Ti)

i5-13600KF (or i5 non K or i7 non K)

Z690-I (or B660-I if non K)

2x16Go RAM 5600MHz DDR5

SSD 2To NVMe TLC

Lian Li A4H2O

AIO 2x120mm

PSU 750W (or 650W ?)

 

My screen resolution is 1440p, I want to play with 60+ fps for 6-7 years in every game at high resolution minimum.In 7 years I want to upgrade my config only with a RTX xx50 or RTX xx70 in order to have a computer that can play in high resolution 60+fps most games for 2-3 years.

 

It is going to be my first PC build and it's really hard to know if buying Z690 + K processor is better than B660 + non K processor.

 

Im not sure if a 240mil cooler is going to be enough for intel's 13th gen chips. Unless you are undervolting.

[Bismut]

4 minutes ago, Azowel said:

I want to play with 60+ fps for 6-7 years in every game at high resolution minimum.In 7 years I want to upgrade my config only with a RTX xx50 or RTX xx70 in order to have a computer that can play in high resolution 60+fps most games for 2-3 years.

7 minutes ago, Azowel said:

I'm gonna build a new (ITX) PC

Here is the hypothetic config:

Ah, future proofing and planning a build that's a few months out. It's a fool's errand, plan your build the week you get the parts and check what's a good upgrade when it becomes too slow.

 

6 minutes ago, Azowel said:

AIO 2x120mm

The service life of a typical AIO is about 4-5 years from what I know, water will evaporate over time. Get a good air cooler if you want to set and forget the PC.

 

[OddOod]

37 minutes ago, Bismut said:

The service life of a typical AIO is about 4-5 years from what I know, water will evaporate over time. Get a good air cooler if you want to set and forget the PC.

I wholeheartedly agree that AIOs are a bad idea in the long run, but with ITX sometimes you gotta take what you can get. 

[Bismut]

18 minutes ago, OddOod said:

with ITX sometimes you gotta take what you can get

True, although you could go for an Alphacool Eisbär / Eisbär LT and do a sort of custom AIO to extend the longevety. That's sorta what I did, although I switched back to ATX.

[Azowel]

4 hours ago, FI Fheonix said:

Im not sure if a 240mil cooler is going to be enough for intel's 13th gen chips. Unless you are undervolting.

Do 13th chips creates more heat than older generation ?

What about to change fans from the AIO to noctua fans ?

[Azowel]

4 hours ago, Bismut said:

Ah, future proofing and planning a build that's a few months out. It's a fool's errand, plan your build the week you get the parts and check what's a good upgrade when it becomes too slow.

 

The service life of a typical AIO is about 4-5 years from what I know, water will evaporate over time. Get a good air cooler if you want to set and forget the PC.

 

I have to plan for one reason: money.

If I plan early I can wait for discounts and then do not spend too much. I'm a student.

Btw I'm european, all the hardware is more expansive in europe. I'm just gonna buy a gpu in the USA and then bring it back to europe, i'm gonna save 100-200$ for sure

 

Np with the AIO, it's not really expansive, I can change it in 5 years.

[OddOod]

6 hours ago, Azowel said:

What about to change fans from the AIO to noctua fans

It's not the fans that die. The fans are fine. Or, well, as fine as the same fans on a tower cooler. It's the utter shite pumps that die, and die *silently*, which is hard to diagnose. Additionally the coolant will evaporate over time and almost no AIO is built to be actually maintained. There are also some cases where there has been sanitation problems at the factory which lead to gunk growth in the loop which, again, is not user serviceable. Finally, they are just plain not cost competitive with tower coolers.
All this is to say that while you are free to go AIO, there are MAJOR disadvantages you should be aware of. 

[Azowel]

35 minutes ago, OddOod said:

It's not the fans that die. The fans are fine. Or, well, as fine as the same fans on a tower cooler. It's the utter shite pumps that die, and die *silently*, which is hard to diagnose. Additionally the coolant will evaporate over time and almost no AIO is built to be actually maintained. There are also some cases where there has been sanitation problems at the factory which lead to gunk growth in the loop which, again, is not user serviceable. Finally, they are just plain not cost competitive with tower coolers.
All this is to say that while you are free to go AIO, there are MAJOR disadvantages you should be aware of. 

Do you believe that I shouldn't buy an AIO ? Heat transfers are higher with AIO thanks to convection while fans with thermal dissipators is using conduction which is a less efficient way to do heat transfers

[OddOod]

6 minutes ago, Azowel said:

Do you believe that I shouldn't buy an AIO ? Heat transfers are higher with AIO thanks to convection while fans with thermal dissipators is using conduction which is a less efficient way to do heat transfers

Always, unless you are going ultra tiny formfactor. 
Ultimately all cooling is air cooling. The only advantage water *can* give is more thermal mass to absorb spikes. 

Also, the heat conducts from chip to IHS to TIM to cooling block. Once there it either conducts to a heat pipe or water, then from there it conducts to fins where it convects to air

[Azowel]

7 minutes ago, OddOod said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Azowel]

9 minutes ago, OddOod said:

Always, unless you are going ultra tiny formfactor. 
Ultimately all cooling is air cooling. The only advantage water *can* give is more thermal mass to absorb spikes. 

Also, the heat conducts from chip to IHS to TIM to cooling block. Once there it either conducts to a heat pipe or water, then from there it conducts to fins where it convects to air

Ok but this is a ultra tiny formfactor, the Lian Li A4H2O has a volume of 11L and it is my first build. Do you have some advices to give about how to chose an AIO ? Or do you believe I should build the watercooling by myself (it is my first build but I used to repair some laptops)

[OddOod]

9 hours ago, Azowel said:

Ok but this is a ultra tiny formfactor, the Lian Li A4H2O has a volume of 11L and it is my first build. Do you have some advices to give about how to chose an AIO ? Or do you believe I should build the watercooling by myself (it is my first build but I used to repair some laptops)

Oh! Sorry, my bad, I'm usually better at clocking those! That is a good use case given that, as with all things SFF, you have to make major tradeoffs. 
TBH I got out of the AIO game 2ish years ago when almost all AIOs were made by Antech (licensing restrictions IIRC) so it made little difference which you went with. I'd find something inexpensive with a rated thermal dissipation that will handle your chip and a long warranty. 
If this is your first build you've taken on a major challenge and I'd mostly advise you to prepare yourself for failure. Your parts may not fit, thermals are gonna be all over the place, and there is gonna be some compromise that you are gonna hate, but you'll have to live with. That being said, it's gonna be an Adventure. It should be fun and you will learn a LOT. Given all this, don't go custom cooling off the bat. You can take that previous paragraph, add the word "watercooling" between first and build, and you have my thoughts. Don't compound the cost and the difficulty (unless you're a Cuphead player and you just get off on that). 
Lemme know if you need any more help. Best of luck! 
Oh, and you're not likely to get much out of an OC, you're already fighting tooth and nail against thermals and, frankly, I believe these chips tend to not only run hot but also have surprisingly little headroom beyond the self turbo to thermal limits

[Beerzerker]

21 hours ago, Azowel said:

Hi !

I'm gonna build a new (ITX) PC

Here is the hypothetic config:

RTX 4070 (or RTX 4060 Ti)

i5-13600KF (or i5 non K or i7 non K)

Z690-I (or B660-I if non K)

2x16Go RAM 5600MHz DDR5

SSD 2To NVMe TLC

Lian Li A4H2O

AIO 2x120mm

PSU 750W (or 650W ?)

 

My screen resolution is 1440p, I want to play with 60+ fps for 6-7 years in every game at high resolution minimum.In 7 years I want to upgrade my config only with a RTX xx50 or RTX xx70 in order to have a computer that can play in high resolution 60+fps most games for 2-3 years.

 

It is going to be my first PC build and it's really hard to know if buying Z690 + K processor is better than B660 + non K processor.

 

Just know with a non-K chip build you may run into this:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rip-overclockable-non-k-intel-chips-we-hardly-knew-ye?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social&utm_content=tomsguide&fbclid=IwAR0UsbU1P4mvU5hCqrye12IGj3pgodKh4gdlO-FQzjE0D7yHW6FwWzzzF9U

If this is true, to do any OC'ing you'll need a K chip.