Looking for audio solution suggestions for LG C2 (Receiver, Speakers, etc)

[ItsKoop]

Hey there guys,

 

I've been doing research on soundbars and audio solutions. Mostly on the soundbar side (I've since decided to go with reciever/speaker setup and am looking for suggestions aimed at that. Please see my latest post in the thread) as I live in a relatively small apartment so I'm obviously not cranking things to 11. There is an overwhelming amount of brands, choices, and tech to consider which is all pretty new to me which is why I'm reaching out for suggestions. I've heard concerns with running things like game consoles through HDMI of receivers causing input delay which is something I'd really like to avoid.

 

I primarily want to get this sound system for gaming. PS5, switch, steam deck docked. I'd also want to use my PS5 for watching movies. From my understanding the PS5 supports Dolby Atmos which is a selling point for these high end solutions. I am unsure of other features I should be looking at. input delay and audio latency are my biggest concerns. I like the idea of being able to slowly upgrade to a full fancy solution like Atmos. 

 

I've purchased the LG C2 which can support a lot of fancy 4K stuff. For gaming I am excited to have 4K 120HZ. Not a lot of games on PS5 that support this but I do have a high end desktop I could connect to my C2 with a long enough active/optical 2.1 cable.

 

My first concern from research is regarding audio sync and/or input delay. Apparently the C2 and other TVs have has had issues with these soundbars and possibly receivers? I am worried about audio sync and input delay caused by running HDMI from consoles through a receiver. I'd obviously like to avoid this issue. Curious what experience others may have had with issues like this or if it's actually a non issue?

 

This is really my first foray into exploring these options. Just looking for input, opinions, and guidance.

 

Thanks!

 

[Dedayog]

I'd pop over to audioreview.com as well for a bit broader and more indepth perspective...

 

http://forums.audioreview.com/forum.php

 

 

[jaslion]

For 2k you can buy an epic setup depending on how you do it.

 

A random old reciever with spdif input and a tv with spdif out gets you wahtever surround sound you want.

 

Then buy the speakers of your liking and have extreme high end audio.

 

Sonos enjoys killing their older stuffoff even if it still works.

 

The dumber you can make it the longer it will last and the fun thing about audio gear is a pair of great speakers from 30 years ago still sound great today as long as you dont blow em up by running em above 80% for a long time.

[shoutingsteve]

I'm abig fan of Klipsch.  They have a great range of soundbars.  I personally don't like wireless speakers: since you have to run electricity to them, you may as well run signal.

 

 

Regarding lag for gaming, I recommend do this signal path:

 

PS5--> TV--> Digital audio out (like TOSlink or coax or something)--> receiver or soundbar.

[ItsKoop]

11 minutes ago, shoutingsteve said:

I'm abig fan of Klipsch.  They have a great range of soundbars.  I personally don't like wireless speakers: since you have to run electricity to them, you may as well run signal.

 

 

Regarding lag for gaming, I recommend do this signal path:

 

PS5--> TV--> Digital audio out (like TOSlink or coax or something)--> receiver or soundbar.

With that setup path suggested is there any concern for support for features like Atmos? From my quick googling doesn't seem to be the case.

[shoutingsteve]

1 hour ago, ItsKoop said:

With that setup path suggested is there any concern for support for features like Atmos? From my quick googling doesn't seem to be the case.

It should be retained.  Keeping everything in a digital format usually keeps multichannel (and all the bells and whistles that go along with a multichannel digital signal) intact.  HDCP should also be fine.

[dalekphalm]

On 12/16/2022 at 1:55 PM, ItsKoop said:

With that setup path suggested is there any concern for support for features like Atmos? From my quick googling doesn't seem to be the case.

No. Using TOSLINK will eliminate support for ATMOS.

On 12/16/2022 at 3:21 PM, shoutingsteve said:

It should be retained.  Keeping everything in a digital format usually keeps multichannel (and all the bells and whistles that go along with a multichannel digital signal) intact.  HDCP should also be fine.

Just an FYI but TOSLINK/Optical does *NOT* support ATMOS, or even DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD. TOSLINK tops out at the old DVD-era 5.1 and 7.1 surround codecs. These have significantly less bandwidth than compared to HDMI-fed sources, such as the ones I've listed above.

 

Digital is digital, yes, but TOSLINK doesn't support the modern digital formats.

 

Will it be good enough? For most people, probably. But there *is* a difference. Especially with ATMOS, which introduces additional height channels.

 

@ItsKoop what features are mandatory for you? You mention ATMOS in your OP - if that's something you want, you'll need to ensure the Soundbar (or AVR) you buy supports it, and you'll need to ensure that the connection you use also supports it.

 

For example, lets say you buy an expensive soundbar with 5.1.4 ATMOS (that's 5 discrete main channels: Center, L + R, Rear L +R; 1 subwoofer; 4 ATMOS height channels). Then let's say you plug the thing in with TOSLINK Optical. You won't be able to use ATMOS. You'll need to use HDMI for that instead of TOSLINK.

 

Now - latency can be an issue, but it varies depending on the TV and the Soundbar/AVR. It's usually not a big deal, especially with movies. Audio sync latency issues can usually be fixed via software where it adjusts the audio delay. Input latency usually can't be changed though.

 

As for AVR vs Soundbar? Both have excellent options. An AVR is more flexible, but also more complicated (especially with wires everywhere). Personally I use a Yamaha RX-V385 AVR w/ a Klipsch sub and 5 old Logitech satellites from a Z-5300 kit. It doesn't support ATMOS, but it does support DTS HD-MA and Dolby TrueHD, which is what I wanted out of the setup.

 

For me, personally, I want to upgrade my speakers first before I upgrade my AVR to something ATMOS capable - I will eventually, but it's a low priority for me.

 

My AVR is connected via HDMI to my TV (Sony A80J 55" OLED), and all my video sources are connected directly to the AVR - not that there's really much there. Almost everything is done via my Xbox One S (it's my primary media device). I occasionally game on it, never had issues with audio or input latency.

 

You could easily get a good soundbar for $2000 or less - even a very high end one with potentially wireless rear speakers and a dedicated sub. Or you could use the same money to buy an AVR w/ separate surround speakers (or as a whole kit, as is sometimes sold). Both have their merits - space saving and simplicity vs flexibility and raw power.

 

This audio sync issue? Are they talking about syncing the audio from the TV speakers with the audio from the Soundbar speakers? If so, that's pretty much an issue with any AVR or Soundbar and as I mentioned, you can tweak this using audio delay in the settings of the AVR/Soundbar, but I don't even bother. When I use my AVR's speakers I just mute the TV.

 

Unless you're saying that the soundbar has an issue where the audio delay is so bad it's literally out of sync with the image? That's not an issue I've had to deal with.

[ItsKoop]

23 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Unless you're saying that the soundbar has an issue where the audio delay is so bad it's literally out of sync with the image? That's not an issue I've had to deal with.

Yeah this is actually what I was referring to. Apparently people had seen issues per some of the links I shared. Perhaps it's not something to be worried about.

 

A quick update on my purchases so far. I went ahead and took the dive and picked up the TV first- got an LG C2. I'll be having it installed/wall mounted next week.

 

After continuing to do my research it's become apparent that what I really want to do is go the route of getting a receiver and speaker setup. my goal would be to start with a receiver that will work well with my LG C2 (being able to pass through 4K 120HZ video) and allow for expandability in the future. I figured I could invest in a higher end receiver first then go speaker by speaker starting with left/right and maybe center (and be set with that for a long while before I go further).

 

@dalekphalm For features the only true mandatory one for me would be the 4K 120hz passthrough with no additional latency/input lag introduced by the receiver. I like the idea of being able to expand to a full atmos setup for future proofing to an extent but I would not start at that point.

 

Any recommendations of receivers that would meet these goals? Speakers? I'm interested to hear suggestions

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

Yeah this is actually what I was referring to. Apparently people had seen issues per some of the links I shared. Perhaps it's not something to be worried about.

 

A quick update on my purchases so far. I went ahead and took the dive and picked up the TV first- got an LG C2. I'll be having it installed/wall mounted next week.

Good choice. I have the Sony A80J OLED in 55", and it uses the same panel as the LG C1. No regrets. Yours will be amazing too.

5 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

After continuing to do my research it's become apparent that what I really want to do is go the route of getting a receiver and speaker setup. my goal would be to start with a receiver that will work well with my LG C2 (being able to pass through 4K 120HZ video) and allow for expandability in the future. I figured I could invest in a higher end receiver first then go speaker by speaker starting with left/right and maybe center (and be set with that for a long while before I go further).

If you plan on watching a lot of movies, I'd go with 3.1 or 3.0 to start - Left + Right + Center (whether you want to buy a sub upfront or not really depends on your speaker choice and whether they have decent bass out of the box).

5 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

Any recommendations of receivers that would meet these goals? Speakers? I'm interested to hear suggestions

What features from an AVR are you looking for? So far you've mentioned 4K120Hz - anything else? Atmos support? How many max channels? Total max budget for the AVR? These will impact your choices.

 

One popular choice is the Denon AVR-X2700H:

https://www.denon.com/en-ca/product/av-receivers/avr-x2700h

It has 4K120Hz, 7.1 or 5.1.2 Atmos, and supports most of the advanced audio codecs - it goes for about $800 on Amazon, no idea if that's a good price for it or not.

 

The AVR I own is a Yamaha RX-V385, it's a more basic 5.1 AVR w/ no support for Atmos, but it suited all of my minimum requirements.

[ItsKoop]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

What features from an AVR are you looking for? So far you've mentioned 4K120Hz - anything else? Atmos support? How many max channels? Total max budget for the AVR? These will impact your choices.

 

One popular choice is the Denon AVR-X2700H:

https://www.denon.com/en-ca/product/av-receivers/avr-x2700h

It has 4K120Hz, 7.1 or 5.1.2 Atmos, and supports most of the advanced audio codecs - it goes for about $800 on Amazon, no idea if that's a good price for it or not.

 

The AVR I own is a Yamaha RX-V385, it's a more basic 5.1 AVR w/ no support for Atmos, but it suited all of my minimum requirements.

So for a receiver I'd be willing to spend up to $2500~. However if that would be better invested in the initial speaker setup I am thinking of going with I'm willing to hear it out. Budget for speakers are unknown I feel like I don't know enough about price/quality/what I want so I'm open to suggestions. I guess it comes down to budget and opinion of what to truly invest budget into. My spending is flexible if it's deemed worth the cost. I suppose I am looking for guidance on when it's simply overkill and to get the best bang for my buck. 

 

I'm totally in the dark/learning on the speakers. I truly do not know the difference between a pair of $400 vs $2000 floor speakers. Would love resources to learn and understand more.

 

The truth is I'm just not sure what I want beyond the video requirements working with the LG C2. For speakers I am thinking of Tower/Floor Standing Speakers for L/R stereo and then a center as a starting point, however my knowledge so far is limited if that is a recommended approach. It seems like going with floor standing could really help with bass? I am sure it really depends on the speakers. Avoiding the need for a separate sub (for now) would be nice (again small apartment) but I won't be here forever so the idea of being able to add speakers down the road sounds really promising.

 

Since this is my very first time looking at receivers I like the IDEA of having a lot of channels to work with in the future, or the IDEA of Atmos support but if I truly need them or not I am unsure. I am currently using this cheap soundbar setup https://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-Bluetooth-Subwoofer-Assistant-Compatible/dp/B08CGVTVMN?th=1 so I think almost anything would be an upgrade haha (I had bought it with the goal of replacing it like this). I like the idea of being able to add speakers to an existing AVR.

 

What is considered low end, medium, and high end price ranges when it comes to receivers? What about left/right/center speakers? Any recommendations for 'sweet spots' for price to value?

 

 

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

So for a receiver I'd be willing to spend up to $2500~. However if that would be better invested in the initial speaker setup I am thinking of going with I'm willing to hear it out. Budget for speakers are unknown I feel like I don't know enough about price/quality/what I want so I'm open to suggestions. I guess it comes down to budget and opinion of what to truly invest budget into. My spending is flexible if it's deemed worth the cost. I suppose I am looking for guidance on when it's simply overkill and to get the best bang for my buck.

If you're willing to spend $2500+, any AVR you buy will likely have all or most of the common advanced features - that's well into the very high end of AVR's.

 

Personally, you could probably go $1000-$1500 for an AVR and still meet and exceed all of your requirements.

 

If you're in that ballpark for price, things I would recommend:

1. ATMOS support in general

2. 4K120Hz passthrough

3. 11.1/11.2 channel support (this usually allows you to do 7.1.4 ATMOS) - this is overkill for most people, and especially an apartment - so going with 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 might be more practical - but it depends on how long term you're planning.

3 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

The truth is I'm just not sure what I want beyond the video requirements working with the LG C2. For speakers I am thinking of Tower/Floor Standing Speakers for L/R stereo and then a center as a starting point, however my knowledge so far is limited if that is a recommended approach. It seems like going with floor standing could really help with bass? I am sure it really depends on the speakers. Avoiding the need for a separate sub (for now) would be nice (again small apartment) but I won't be here forever so the idea of being able to add speakers down the road sounds really promising.

Floor/Tower speakers usually have better bass, because they generally have more drivers in them, each one optimized for a different range (the good ones will have a driver for high, one for mid, and one for bass). Really good floor standing speakers will often negate the basic need for subs - but remember that they're not truly a full replacement for a sub. Long term, you'll likely eventually want to add a sub regardless of what setup you start with.

3 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

Since this is my very first time looking at receivers I like the IDEA of having a lot of channels to work with in the future, or the IDEA of Atmos support but if I truly need them or not I am unsure. I am currently using this cheap soundbar setup https://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-Bluetooth-Subwoofer-Assistant-Compatible/dp/B08CGVTVMN?th=1 so I think almost anything would be an upgrade haha (I had bought it with the goal of replacing it like this). I like the idea of being able to add speakers to an existing AVR.

That comes down to how much sound quality impacts your enjoyment of movies. Basically if you're going with this high end of a setup, you'll want to take advantage of 4K Blurays and streaming services that have Atmos.

 

I've never used Atmos in-person before, but testimonials for those that have say it's a game changer. But, like any soundtrack, not all movies are mastered the same. Some Atmos soundtracks are barely different from a traditional 5.1/7.1 soundtrack, whereas some are incredible and a huge upgrade. It's similar to HDR in movies. Some are great. Some are hardly noticeable.

 

If you've got the budget you say you've got, I'd say a minimum of Atmos w/ 5.1.2 support would be a good call. You can always choose an AVR that has even more channels - you just have to compare the price vs additional channels.

3 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

What is considered low end, medium, and high end price ranges when it comes to receivers? What about left/right/center speakers? Any recommendations for 'sweet spots' for price to value?

Low end would be anything sub like $400. My Yamaha RX-V385 is almost certainly considered low end - but for the price, it's damn good. Mid range, to me, would be $400-$1000, and high end would be $1000+. This is my own personal ranking system based on nothing but intuition and some amount of research on AVR's in general. IMO mid-range offers the best bang for the buck. One thing to consider is how powerful the integrated amp is. More power means it can drive the speakers louder or more of them. Often, AVR's make this information difficult to find though - or they only list the power for 2ch (2 channels) being driven, and you kind of have to guess or estimate the power driven to a full 7 channel system (subs are actively powered by their own plug and usually have a built-in amp for themselves).

 

Speakers are a whole different ballgame. Prices can range from something like $25/speaker to well over $1000 per speaker. I'd say $500/pair for nice Floor standing Speakers is a good place to start, but you can definitely go higher or lower here. There's so much choice.

 

Another option is looking at used speakers. Especially at garage sales. Sometimes you can find extremely high end speakers from the 70s/80s/90s that people are getting rid of and they have no idea that the speakers are high end.

 

You might benefit from going into a local AV store to actually test out different speakers to get an idea of how they sound. My speakers are very low end Logitech satellites that I re-used from a Z-5300 kit after the amp died. They actually sound pretty decent, and sound better when driven by my AVR than they did from the Logitech kit itself, but they're nowhere near as good as nice proper home theater speakers. My sub is a Klipsch R-12SW - it's most definitely not high end, but it's overkill compared to my current speakers, so I'm able to grow into the sub long term.

[ItsKoop]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

If you're willing to spend $2500+, any AVR you buy will likely have all or most of the common advanced features - that's well into the very high end of AVR's.

 

Personally, you could probably go $1000-$1500 for an AVR and still meet and exceed all of your requirements.

 

If you're in that ballpark for price, things I would recommend:

1. ATMOS support in general

2. 4K120Hz passthrough

3. 11.1/11.2 channel support (this usually allows you to do 7.1.4 ATMOS) - this is overkill for most people, and especially an apartment - so going with 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 might be more practical - but it depends on how long term you're planning.

 

Appreciate all the feedback. I'll need to really lock down how far I really want to expand. Appreciate your personal input on price to value ranges.

 

To your point on 11.1/11.2 vs 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 the goal for me would be the future proofing when I move into a house (have been saving and plan to do this within the next few years depending on market). So I like the idea of going with a receiver that can handle 11.1/11.2 for when I move into that larger space and grow my equipment. Perhaps though even that is overkill even in a bigger space and if I go with 5.x.x I can use more budget toward speakers. I'll have to really dig into this idea with some research on 11.x vs 5.x.x and see what opinions are like. With anything audio though it's always tough because I know how it is, there's no ceiling on this stuff lol... 

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Floor/Tower speakers usually have better bass, because they generally have more drivers in them, each one optimized for a different range (the good ones will have a driver for high, one for mid, and one for bass). Really good floor standing speakers will often negate the basic need for subs - but remember that they're not truly a full replacement for a sub. Long term, you'll likely eventually want to add a sub regardless of what setup you start with.

 

This is pretty much what I was seeing when researching. Thanks for the explanation on the number drivers, that makes sense. Agreed that not being a final solution and I would want to eventually add the sub.

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

That comes down to how much sound quality impacts your enjoyment of movies. Basically if you're going with this high end of a setup, you'll want to take advantage of 4K Blurays and streaming services that have Atmos.

 

I've never used Atmos in-person before, but testimonials for those that have say it's a game changer. But, like any soundtrack, not all movies are mastered the same. Some Atmos soundtracks are barely different from a traditional 5.1/7.1 soundtrack, whereas some are incredible and a huge upgrade. It's similar to HDR in movies. Some are great. Some are hardly noticeable.

 

If you've got the budget you say you've got, I'd say a minimum of Atmos w/ 5.1.2 support would be a good call. You can always choose an AVR that has even more channels - you just have to compare the price vs additional channels.

 

This is pretty much why I keep mentioning Atmos support. I keep hearing it's amazing but I too have not personally experienced it for myself. Sound quality is always going to be a huge impact on movie enjoyment in my opinion- I mean it's 1/2 the experience really. Would be surprised to hear someone say they don't care about the audio when watching a movie. I always go with physical media if I can help it. I'd much rather own a Bluray of a movie I enjoy. I am always a physical media first kind of person for anything (games, movies, music). I know we're a dying breed it seems lol. With that said however I do know steaming services do offer a growing selection of support for cool audio/video settings. It's not something I've payed particular attention to until now though since I'm trying to move towards systems that can support it.

 

And right right. It all depends. Of course a movie or game can be mastered like crap. It is what it is I suppose with that.

 

I think your opinion has helped me sway more towards 5.1.2 since that seems practical even when I move to a larger space. By the time I am willing to go to beyond that I probably would want to upgrade my receiver anyway. You're right on the price vs channel though, I'll just need to compare. But I think even with my ideas of future expansion I need to be realistic in what the timeline would look like to reach past 5.x.x .... No ceiling with this stuff I swear haha

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

You might benefit from going into a local AV store to actually test out different speakers to get an idea of how they sound.

Solid advice. I think even for my questions of how many channels I really need to hear it for myself and make the decision based on my testing experience. 

 

 

Appreciate all your feedback.

[dalekphalm]

24 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

Appreciate all the feedback. I'll need to really lock down how far I really want to expand. Appreciate your personal input on price to value ranges.

No problem at all - AVR's and home theatre setups can get kind of complicated, pretty quickly.

24 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

To your point on 11.1/11.2 vs 5.1.4 or 5.1.2 the goal for me would be the future proofing when I move into a house (have been saving and plan to do this within the next few years depending on market). So I like the idea of going with a receiver that can handle 11.1/11.2 for when I move into that larger space and grow my equipment. Perhaps though even that is overkill even in a bigger space and if I go with 5.x.x I can use more budget toward speakers. I'll have to really dig into this idea with some research on 11.x vs 5.x.x and see what opinions are like. With anything audio though it's always tough because I know how it is, there's no ceiling on this stuff lol... 

One thing to keep in mind is that an Atmos Capable 11.1 AVR can also do 7.1.4 generally. An Atmos capable 9.1 AVR will do 5.1.4, and so on. 9.1 would be without Atmos Height Speakers, or 5.1.4 w/ Atmos speakers. You'll want to double and triple check the specs though, as sometimes there can be weird oddities (Eg: A 11.1 AVR should in theory be able to do 7.1.4 but maybe it only supports 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 - make sure it says clearly).

 

Even for a somewhat larger home theater room, 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 would be really awesome. Even 5.1.2 would be a step up from traditional surround sound.

24 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

This is pretty much what I was seeing when researching. Thanks for the explanation on the number drivers, that makes sense. Agreed that not being a final solution and I would want to eventually add the sub.

 

 

This is pretty much why I keep mentioning Atmos support. I keep hearing it's amazing but I too have not personally experienced it for myself. Sound quality is always going to be a huge impact on movie enjoyment in my opinion- I mean it's 1/2 the experience really. Would be surprised to hear someone say they don't care about the audio when watching a movie. I always go with physical media if I can help it. I'd much rather own a Bluray of a movie I enjoy. I am always a physical media first kind of person for anything (games, movies, music). I know we're a dying breed it seems lol. With that said however I do know steaming services do offer a growing selection of support for cool audio/video settings. It's not something I've payed particular attention to until now though since I'm trying to move towards systems that can support it.

Physical media has been "dying", sort of. 4K Blurays are actually going through a renaissance right now with increasing sales each year, and there are a lot of classic movies getting 4K HDR Bluray releases (Eg: James Cameron's collection).

 

My collection of Blu-Rays is pretty large, but I only have maybe a dozen 4K Blurays - but I'll keep buying them for really great movies.

 

A couple I can recommend: Bladerunner 2049 - holy crap it looks amazing. And Jurassic Park (the first one).

24 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

And right right. It all depends. Of course a movie or game can be mastered like crap. It is what it is I suppose with that.

 

I think your opinion has helped me sway more towards 5.1.2 since that seems practical even when I move to a larger space. By the time I am willing to go to beyond that I probably would want to upgrade my receiver anyway. You're right on the price vs channel though, I'll just need to compare. But I think even with my ideas of future expansion I need to be realistic in what the timeline would look like to reach past 5.x.x .... No ceiling with this stuff I swear haha

5.1.2 is definitely a nice place to start with Atmos - you can probably get a 7.1 capable Atmos AVR that can do 5.1.2. You could also go 9.1 and get 5.1.4 Atmos as well. To be honest, I'm not sure how much of a difference 2 Atmos vs 4 Atmos speakers makes. You don't need ceiling mounted speakers with Atmos (although that does get you the best sound) - many Up-firing Atmos speakers exist now and they're tuned to basically just bounce off the ceiling.

24 minutes ago, ItsKoop said:

Solid advice. I think even for my questions of how many channels I really need to hear it for myself and make the decision based on my testing experience. 

 

 

Appreciate all your feedback.

No problem at all. Feel free to post any more questions, and once you start buying stuff and hooking it up, be sure to create a show-off post and let us know your thoughts on it.

[ItsKoop]

So been doing more and more research.

 

@dalekphalm Per your price point I think this receiver below can handle everything I'm looking for. What do you think? It's not 11.x but for the price point it seems good. Appears to have everything else I'd want. Anything I am missing or anything jump out to you as a red flag?

 

Denon AVR-X3800H ($1,700) 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/denon-avr-x3800h-105w-9-ch-bluetooth-capable-hdr-compatible-with-heos-and-dolby-atmos-8k-ultra-hd-av-home-theater-receiver-black/6518170.p?skuId=6518170

 

So for speakers I've been looking at the SVS line of prime/ultra. SVS seems to be a well received and recommend brand with great customer support. Their starting model is the prime series. Seems I could go with all prime (center and towers) for $1000 total or bump the center up to ultra for a total of $1,400 ... From reading people stress the importance of the center speaker, which makes sense. That's why I could consider the higher tier center. Or perhaps I just go all prime and then upgrade down the road. Alternatively I could go with bookshelfs for L/R (will need stands) vs the towers and look to getting a sub (like the sb-2000).

 

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-tower

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-center

 

Opinions? When looking at receivers anything below that price point seem to take away a lot of the 8K HDMI 2.1 ports (splitting them between 4K and 8K - keeping in mind I'm just looking at 8K for the 4K 120Hz support). For speakers I know I could go up to an infinite price point haha. In terms of upgrading and staying with one brand it seems like SVS is highly regarded. It gives me a clear and understandable upgrade path with their prime vs ultra lines.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, ItsKoop said:

So been doing more and more research.

 

@dalekphalm Per your price point I think this receiver below can handle everything I'm looking for. What do you think? It's not 11.x but for the price point it seems good. Appears to have everything else I'd want. Anything I am missing or anything jump out to you as a red flag?

 

Denon AVR-X3800H ($1,700) 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/denon-avr-x3800h-105w-9-ch-bluetooth-capable-hdr-compatible-with-heos-and-dolby-atmos-8k-ultra-hd-av-home-theater-receiver-black/6518170.p?skuId=6518170

Yeah this looks like a great unit. It's a solid step above the unit I linked to you earlier. It does 9.4 - which means 9 amplified channels and up to 4 powered subs. I checked the details and it can either do 7.1.2 Atmos or 5.1.4 Atmos (So you can either have 4 height speakers or 2 height speakers and 2 additional side speakers).

 

It can actually do 11.4, but the last 2 channels are processing only, and you'd need an external amp for them - that's very high end and very very few people ever bother with that.

1 hour ago, ItsKoop said:

So for speakers I've been looking at the SVS line of prime/ultra. SVS seems to be a well received and recommend brand with great customer support. Their starting model is the prime series. Seems I could go with all prime (center and towers) for $1000 total or bump the center up to ultra for a total of $1,400 ... From reading people stress the importance of the center speaker, which makes sense. That's why I could consider the higher tier center. Or perhaps I just go all prime and then upgrade down the road. Alternatively I could go with bookshelfs for L/R (will need stands) vs the towers and look to getting a sub (like the sb-2000).

 

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-tower

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-center

SVS is a highly regarded line. IMO, you're probably just fine with the Prime line. Also, I would keep the towers and center matched in the same line, not mixing different lines. You can always individually boost the audio on the Center channel to tweak it just right.

1 hour ago, ItsKoop said:

Opinions? When looking at receivers anything below that price point seem to take away a lot of the 8K HDMI 2.1 ports (splitting them between 4K and 8K - keeping in mind I'm just looking at 8K for the 4K 120Hz support). For speakers I know I could go up to an infinite price point haha. In terms of upgrading and staying with one brand it seems like SVS is highly regarded. It gives me a clear and understandable upgrade path with their prime vs ultra lines.

If you've got the budget for it, your plan here is an excellent starting point.

[ItsKoop]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Yeah this looks like a great unit. It's a solid step above the unit I linked to you earlier. It does 9.4 - which means 9 amplified channels and up to 4 powered subs. I checked the details and it can either do 7.1.2 Atmos or 5.1.4 Atmos (So you can either have 4 height speakers or 2 height speakers and 2 additional side speakers).

 

It can actually do 11.4, but the last 2 channels are processing only, and you'd need an external amp for them - that's very high end and very very few people ever bother with that.

Thanks for the additional research on it. A lot of people in the home theater threads/forums I've read are pretty bummed that this receiver wasn't the next messiah it seems. It appears to be more of a problem with just cost  of manufacturing going up, inflation, etc... Seems like a lot of disappointment in the community that prices have gone up. Lot of people referencing their older Denons which they got for cheaper (check on them and almost none support 4K 144Hz). Hard times but since I am trying to have a starting point of using these 8K receivers seems like I'm buying at a good time comparatively as it looks like that only started to pick up in the last year or so.

 

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

SVS is a highly regarded line. IMO, you're probably just fine with the Prime line. Also, I would keep the towers and center matched in the same line, not mixing different lines. You can always individually boost the audio on the Center channel to tweak it just right.

Appreciate the feedback on this. Pretty sure I'll just end up sticking with the prime instead of trying to mix/max. Unless I can hear them for myself somewhere and it's a significant difference I am sure I'll end up being impressed either way. Always room to upgrade and spend way too much $$$ down the road! SVS likes to say you can mix/max lines as much as you want though (from a athtetic point of view)

 

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

If you've got the budget for it, your plan here is an excellent starting point.

 

Yeah at this point between this audio setup and the TV I'm pushing into some higher costs. I get a bonus towards the end of January and if everything goes according to plan I'll use a portion of that to fund the speaker setup. So I'll rock my terrible soundbar for a month and then get to really enjoy the upgrade haha

 

As always thanks again for all your feedback, really appreciate it!

 

Edit: oh yeah I just thought of this. Recommendations on speaker wire? Does it matter? Seems like a small thing but I hadn't even thought of it.

[dalekphalm]

14 hours ago, ItsKoop said:

Thanks for the additional research on it. A lot of people in the home theater threads/forums I've read are pretty bummed that this receiver wasn't the next messiah it seems. It appears to be more of a problem with just cost  of manufacturing going up, inflation, etc... Seems like a lot of disappointment in the community that prices have gone up. Lot of people referencing their older Denons which they got for cheaper (check on them and almost none support 4K 144Hz). Hard times but since I am trying to have a starting point of using these 8K receivers seems like I'm buying at a good time comparatively as it looks like that only started to pick up in the last year or so.

 

Appreciate the feedback on this. Pretty sure I'll just end up sticking with the prime instead of trying to mix/max. Unless I can hear them for myself somewhere and it's a significant difference I am sure I'll end up being impressed either way. Always room to upgrade and spend way too much $$$ down the road! SVS likes to say you can mix/max lines as much as you want though (from a athtetic point of view)

 

 

Yeah at this point between this audio setup and the TV I'm pushing into some higher costs. I get a bonus towards the end of January and if everything goes according to plan I'll use a portion of that to fund the speaker setup. So I'll rock my terrible soundbar for a month and then get to really enjoy the upgrade haha

 

As always thanks again for all your feedback, really appreciate it!

 

Edit: oh yeah I just thought of this. Recommendations on speaker wire? Does it matter? Seems like a small thing but I hadn't even thought of it.

As for speaker wire, I can't recommend you any brands as I simply wouldn't know which ones to recommend. I would suggest you do some research online looking at distances you're gonna run vs speaker wire gauge - you definitely don't want to skimp out on gauge by accident. But at the same time, buying unnecessarily high gauge is just more expensive for no reason, and I wonder if it could cause issues. I imagine you'll find some guides easy enough.

 

I did a quick look, and Crutchfield has a guide (They're an awesome website for all things audio):

https://www.crutchfield.ca/S-htv9C2Bhoxl/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html

[circeseye]

13 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

As for speaker wire, I can't recommend you any brands as I simply wouldn't know which ones to recommend. I would suggest you do some research online looking at distances you're gonna run vs speaker wire gauge - you definitely don't want to skimp out on gauge by accident. But at the same time, buying unnecessarily high gauge is just more expensive for no reason, and I wonder if it could cause issues. I imagine you'll find some guides easy enough.

 

I did a quick look, and Crutchfield has a guide (They're an awesome website for all things audio):

https://www.crutchfield.ca/S-htv9C2Bhoxl/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_wire.html

yea gauge is important, longer it is more resistance so bigger better, longer you go. as for brand? meh as long as its got a good sleeve. most rooms wont need beyond 14 gauge

12 gauge is usually a good go to. 14 gauge thou no worries.(im s stickler lol, want the signal free flowing) and theres barely a price difference between the 2 when you buy it in 100ft rolls.

on a side note subwoofer cable i highly recommend "Digital Coaxial Cable with RCA Connections" MUCH cleaner signal

[Dedayog]

3 hours ago, circeseye said:

yea gauge is important, longer it is more resistance so bigger better, longer you go. as for brand? meh as long as its got a good sleeve. most rooms wont need beyond 14 gauge

12 gauge is usually a good go to. 14 gauge thou no worries.(im s stickler lol, want the signal free flowing) and theres barely a price difference between the 2 when you buy it in 100ft rolls.

on a side note subwoofer cable i highly recommend "Digital Coaxial Cable with RCA Connections" MUCH cleaner signal

I second the subwoofer cable.

 

As for speaker wire, it really matters not.  IIRC, the bulk 12 or 14 gauge stuff is just fine and no difference in sound quality has ever been proven.   

[ItsKoop]

Wanted to follow up on this old thread and let @dalekphalm and others know I finally got this setup! It's modest and I'm sure the L/R towers aren't far enough apart but I'm happy ... The entertainment console is old and has some horrible bowing in the middle. So I cut the legs off and that gave me enough room to slide the center right under my TV. You can still see it bending a bit on the corners lol... Whenever I move I'll get new furniture but this will help me enjoy things in my current space.

 

I also had to cut out a chunk on the back of the entertainment center as the AVR JUST barely fit, would've been no room for cables. Was fun to bust out old woodworking skills. I simply measured and cut it to the exact back on the X3800H and I'm pretty proud of myself since you can't see behind it! My first time running speaker cable but honestly after doing my own network cable making for years I wasn't too lost thankfully. For th record I went with grabbing 100ft 16AWG zip cord cabling since that made the most sense cost wise. You can see in my setup picture my runs are super short so it makes sense to me. Should probably be fine for future use as my space is not large.

 

 

 

The X3800H as well as the speakers all dropped in price recently which made it easy to finally make the jump. I did consider the 4800 for hot minute but really it didn't seem to offer much except perhaps better CEC control? One more HDMI input? A little bit more power? Meh it didn't seem worth the price jump even as a long term receiver investment. I do have Best Buy TotalTech coverage if I really change my mind though or if the price drops like a rock. Wish I could've tested the Onkyo TX-RZ50 since that seems to be the main comparative AVR for the price point but I'm sure I wouldn't have found much of a difference other than satisfying my curiosity. Open to changing things though if there's any big revelation/news/hardware released since I first made this thread though- always open to advice.

 

Again being this is my first time owning a proper setup I'm of course a total noob so if anyone has advice on how I should best calibrate my speakers I'm interested in learning more. I went through the Denon setup with the paper penis rocket mic stand and afterwards checking the profile it just seemed to reduce the decibel levels for the speakers across the board. Not sure what other EQ stuff it's doing. There's a lot options in general with Audyssey settings and it's not super clear to a newbie what should be 'default' but then again it'll all just be part of playing around with it and finding what I personally enjoy between all the setting options. I know I got the firmware update and can do dirac live at an additional cost so there's always that. Seems like people absolutely love dirac room correction so maybe something I can explore when I add more speakers or modify my space more. The cost seems prohibitive and probably unnecessary with only my 3.1 setup.

 

One thing that caught me as surprised was the Denon volume range. It's odd to me that volume doesn't really pick up till it hits 60.0 on their volume scale. But then if you go to 70+ that shit is BLASTING lmao I don't think I have the heart to test above 75-80 or I might deafen my neighbors. Just seems odd at first, as a noob, that 1-50 range seems basically useless. I assume the explanation is that the normal numbers aren't a really good scale indicator in terms of their equivalency to decibel level. I saw in the options you can change the volume scale from numbers to dB and see how it equates that 55 on the number scale is actually like  -25.5ish dB so it makes sense. Most people would assume 0 means no sound but with an AVR were working from a negative resistive range to a positive amplification range? (Again total noob tell me if that is totally off base please)  I think I'll keep the scale to the dB representation since that helps it make more sense. I can also limit the range. Is there anywhere I can get a better explanation on the relation to how much work my receiver is doing to control the volume? Because my interpretation is that in reality all I am actually doing is trying to limit the sound volume and that 0bD would be 'normal' ? So in my case I'm not even attempting to increase the power to my speakers and there is no way in hell I would ever need external amplification as I'm not even getting anywhere close to going above 0dB- does that make sense? Am I assuming that correctly? Just looking to learn/understand. It also greatly depends on the source audio as I can tell different different devices or even different albums of music live on different scales basically.

 

The Denon UI seems fine enough, I wasn't expecting a masterpiece or anything. Most things are pretty logical except I have absolutely no idea what Trigger Out is. I need to RTFM further on that as I'm also a bit confused on quick select on the remote. Their purpose vs just selecting the source? Can't change the source assigned to them? Also the remote buttons for changing the sound modes- not too sure when I'd want to use them at all or where I change that in the the mains settings. So I suppose there's still a lot to learn with all my options at my disposal now haha.

 

In HDMI settings the Pass Through Source option seems really silly to me. I appreciate that I have the capability of passing video through my receiver even when it's off but when the heck would I not want to use my speakers but still use an HDMI device haha. Seems odd to me. But I can't a CEC stuff unless I enable pass through. 

 

Which brings me to my only major annoyance which is the CEC control from the 3800- or rather how really it's a one way street and you're only allowing other devices to control the receiver. I can't use the Denon remote to turn my TV on/off- it's basically as I said a one way street from what I can tell- you're letting your TV or other devices control the receiver but not the other way around. thankfully my LG C2 can see all the inputs attached to it so I can pretty much control everything from my LG remote(except it can't see the Nintendo switch unless I turn it on, not sure why the Nvidia Shield and PS5 can be seen but the switch cant- I'll assume Nintendo doesn't have some sort of way to be detected even while sleeping in the dock. It's typically their fault when it comes to tech, heh. It's not the biggest deal but I did expect to be able to control everything with my Denon remote so I was surprised. Seems like this is a thing you can do only with the 4X000 models and above according to my research. Unsurprisingly the Denon remote itself feels cheapo anyway. I wonder if I'd be happy with something like a harmony remote (or equivalent since they're going the way of the dodo?) but meh I'd rather buy more speakers for the cost of a fancy remote lol. And going to the 48000 just for this reason seems very silly.

 

The SVS speakers are awesome.. obviously I don't really have a good frame of reference as I've only ever used cheap sound bars until now but these things sound awesome. I know SVS makes even fancier and more expensive speakers but for now I think I'll keep expanding with their prime series. I think I also cried when the center channel delivered movie dialogue so clearly... Those days of having to constantly adjust the volume just to hear movie dialogue are behind me now and I couldn't be more excited. One thing is it's kind of hard to tell if my sub is really doing much? if that sounds odd? The calibration seemed to want me to turn down the sub a lot. I think the bass from the tower speakers are great and as a result I'm not using my actual sub enough? If that makes sense. Perhaps I have to just keep testing and tweaking. When listening to music I can FEEL the sub doing work but perhaps it's just subtle. Will have to chalk it up to doing more testing.

 

For future plans I'd look for rear speakers next. Would require some readjusting of the couch space as it's up against the wall and probably a new carpet that I can extent out to the TV so I can run cabling underneath. I guess I would go with the SVS Prime bookshelfs? Not sure what would be more suitable between them, satellite, or even the their ultra surround speakers. Just more research I'll have to do and consider once I get to the point of wanting to add more speakers. Rears would be really nice though I think.

 

Once again I appreciate all the help I got from everyone here. Thanks!

 

[BuzzingBee]

It's great to see someone who got into HT setup. Although I'm no expert I could try to help some things.

 

- I agree after calibration via Audyssey XT32 the subwoofer response is too weak to my liking so I ended up raising 3-4dB per subwoofer afterwards. 

- After calibration, try turning off a bunch of options, like Dynamic EQ, dynamic volume, mid-range compensation etc. 

- You need to double check your crossover settings. Best to let do your subwoofer do the heavy lifting. Set your front & centre speakers at 80Hz.

- For Audyssey settings, experiment between Flat and Reference. I recall the only difference is Flat doesn't apply high frequency roll off while Reference does. BTW I used Audyssey app which apparently Flat option doesn't work, so I stick to Reference. 

- I don't think you should go into Direc Live (neither have I). Audyssey XT32 is probably 90% good enough with exception of lacking sub-bass. 

- The volume display is indeed confusing for noobies. I prefer "the higher the number the louder", and it's easy for family members to understand as well. Don't quote me on this: the 0dB mark is reference level which I think is 80dB after calibrating with Audyssey. So if you set volume knob to say -20dB then you get 60dB of sound volume. 

- It's not essential to get matching speakers for surround, but it would be neat to complete your SVS set. I would personally get satellite over bookshelf speakers for surround. 

 

I may edit my post if there's more to say which I haven't thought of yet. 

[ItsKoop]

Appreciate your feedback @BuzzingBee. I will check to see what my crossover settings are set to from the Audyssey calibration for the crossover- I opted to not get the app since it cost $20 on the google play store haha. I'm still interested in seeing how good Direc Live is though. With the AVR price drops it might be worth it now honestly to pick up the recommended mic and pay for the license just to see how much of a difference it makes. Appreciate the dB explanation- the first question people ask me when they see my volume is "why do you have to turn it up so high?" so it's pretty confusing for most people seeing it for the first time.

Wanted to note that the price of the X3800H is dropping week after week. Now it's down to $1,139.99 on Best Buy and $1,127.95 on amazon. Apparently Adorama had it down to $999 during a promotion.

 

Meanwhile the X4800H was as low as $1500 during Black Friday but looks to be sold out on BB and only 3rd party sellers on Amazon now. I was interested in the X4800H if the price dropped enough over black friday or 'holiday sale' somewhere but it looks like the X3800H is surpassing any price drop of the X4800H.

 

With the price drop of the X3800H Best Buy happily price matched and I've gotten hundreds off my original purchase price now at this point within 30 days of owning so I am making money back while enjoying my new sound lol. Honestly just having a dedicated center channel is night and day for so much content. I've been taking Stereo content and upmixing using DTS Neural X to see how it sounds and I find most content with sounds great as it'll move dialog to the center channel. This has been mostly impactful for streaming anime off CrunchyRoll so far.

 

I've so far been sticking to picking up my own UHD Blu-Rays and using MakeMKV and running everything off a single USB attached HDD on my Nvidia Shield which is running Plex Media Server. I've got some basic IPTV set up via tivimate. Paying for 10,000 streaming services just isn't my cup of tea. I think if anything my focus will be on upgrading my storage situation to a full NAS and a dedicated system for Plex/Jellyfin.