I have a very strange stuttering issue

[gammatsunami]

I have spent many hours testing this. I even bought a whole new PC part by part to try to figure out the part that was causing it. 

Long story short, I have a very strange issue I was hoping you guys might know the solution to. When I select PC resolution of 4k 120hz to match my LG CX, I get bad stuttering in every single game I play.

 

I have tried a few cables though and they all have the same issue.

 

I am at my wits end and am running out of ideas. I have tried this with a nvidia + intel pc, and a AMD + AMD pc.

I will be using 40% of my GPU, and get stuttering with the PC 4k 120hz resolution.

 

My cable is;

https://www.amazon.com/CABLEDECONN-7680x4320-48Gbps-HDCP2-2-Projector/dp/B00XIWAQKQ

 

 

Would love some advice please.

 

[gammatsunami]

Any ideas guys?

Here is a video of what it, starts around the middle;

 

The only thing that has been constant through my 2 builds is my TV I use as a monitor. I have confirmed its not the cable by testing my ps5, and series x cables.

Literally everything in my PC has been replaced, going from Intel to AMD to Nvidia. New psu, new SSD, new power cables, ram, even a new case. I have tried every combination of Gsync on, off, fps limiter, power limit, freesync on and off etc.

 

If it were my TV ( LG CX 55 ) would it be capturable on software like this?

 

I am currently download black ops cold war, as thats the game its worst on.

Everytime I aim down sight the game will stutter. However new call of duties dont do it at all - which leads to me believe maybe its not the TV but if not, then what?

I have tried going from RGB settings to ycbcr420 8bpc, with limited, still happens. Even if that did fix it then im losing HDR on an OLED.

I have checked the temp of the SSD the games run on, 50c.

TV is in pc, game mode.

Ram is running 3200.

I have turned on and off all windows relation overlays, gpu power settings. Nvidia power is set to max performance.

I have unplugged everything from the pc so just the hdmi, and power cables are plugged in and run a benchmark.

 

If the new monitor doesnt fix it, I have literally zero ideas.

[gammatsunami]

 

[G-ZooM]

You mentioned you swapped all your hardware one by one, but what about software? Have you reinstalled Windows from scratch?

 

The reason I mention this is because I had the same issues on 1440p 165hz, nowhere near your bandwidth but still a lot of random stuttering. I migrated from R7 2700X + GTX 1070 to R7 7700X + RTX 4090 this week (), thinking it would solve my issues as it was old-ish hardware. Still had issues on my (very) old install of Windows 10 which was probably even a windows 7 updated over the years.

After 2 hours I ordered a new SSD, the next day I did a fresh install of Windows 11 and everything is now buttery smooth even after days of usage and everything reinstalled and games downloaded. It was a pain to migrate all software licenses, import config files and reinstall everything, but it was definitely worth it!

[gammatsunami]

4 minutes ago, G-ZooM said:

You mentioned you swapped all your hardware one by one, but what about software? Have you reinstalled Windows from scratch?

 

The reason I mention this is because I had the same issues on 1440p 165hz, nowhere near your bandwidth but still a lot of random stuttering. I migrated from R7 2700X + GTX 1070 to R7 7700X + RTX 4090 this week (), thinking it would solve my issues as it was old-ish hardware. Still had issues on my (very) old install of Windows 10 which was probably even a windows 7 updated over the years.

After 2 hours I ordered a new SSD, the next day I did a fresh install of Windows 11 and everything is now buttery smooth even after days of usage and everything reinstalled and games downloaded. It was a pain to migrate all software licenses, import config files and reinstall everything, but it was definitely worth it!

Unfortunately yes, multiple times

[gammatsunami]

 

 

An example in another game

[G-ZooM]

It was worth a try

Which GPU are you using ?

And are you plugged into the HDMI 2.1 output? What about the input of the TV?

 

It's probably obvious and I'm sorry for asking it, but not all IO are at their maximum rating and companies love to cheap out on these!

 

Also, any possibility of trying with Display Port ?

[gammatsunami]

11 minutes ago, G-ZooM said:

It was worth a try

Which GPU are you using ?

And are you plugged into the HDMI 2.1 output? What about the input of the TV?

 

It's probably obvious and I'm sorry for asking it, but not all IO are at their maximum rating and companies love to cheap out on these!

 

Also, any possibility of trying with Display Port ?

rtx 4090 plugged into 2.1

That is exactly my next option, I have bought a cheap 4k 144hz monitor ( currently using a LG CX tv as my monitor ) so I can try displayport, the TV only has hdmi. I dont know anyone with a high end monitor. 

IF it was the monitor though, that wouldnt show up in capture software would it?

[G-ZooM]

8 minutes ago, gammatsunami said:

IF it was the monitor though, that wouldnt show up in capture software would it?

With Gsync or Vsync I would expect the GPU to wait for the screen if it did not accept any more input frames for some reason, which would show up in capture software, but not at unlocked frequencies.

If we were talking about analog signal I would be 100% sure it's not the monitor, but nowadays there's always some kind of processing going on somewhere or at least a bottleneck which could be thrown back to the GPU.

[G-ZooM]

24 minutes ago, gammatsunami said:

the TV only has hdmi.

If DP output is the solution after your tests, there are some DP 1.4a to HDMI 2.1 cables on the market which could help with your TV I guess : https://www.amazon.com/DisplayPort-Cable-Support-Vision-NVIDIA/dp/B0B292WK3R/

 

But you're not there yet!

[gammatsunami]

can you think of anything else on a software level to try? 

It gets worse with time in some games so I thought maybe temps, but temps of everything seem fine.

[gammatsunami]

Could this honestly be my "monitor"?

Its the only thing that has carried over to each build. I am seeing stuttering, but on my frametiming graph its a perfect line.

 

Its a LG CX TV, so I cant plug into displayport to test that. Surely it cant be just because I am using that?

I cant think of anything else.

I will run latency mon now.

I forgot to mention, dunno if this will help. The issue goes away completely if I set my monitor to ray tracing off ( annoying because its half the reason I got a 4090 ) 1440p 50hz, but 4k it comes back.  Or even 1440p 120hz it comes back. Which made me think cable, but I tried the ps5 and series x cables and that didnt fix it.

I dont have displayport in my tv to test, but I have bought another monitor online that should be here this week, will be interesting to see if thats it...

 

So just to explain what happens with fortnite for example ( I find it good because it has so many options )

( I have spent hours testing to find the changes )

 

• If I lower it to 2560x1440 60hz DX11 it runs like a dream
• Any higher either res or refresh rate = stuttering madness
• Ray tracing makes it stutter
• DX 12 without ray tracing, even in 2560x1440 60 = stuttering mess

Am I correct in thinking this could be the tv? But then would that show up in catchable software?

 

Here is the game in 2560x1440 60hz dx11

 

 

Here is the game, in 2560x1440 60hz dx12

 

 

 

 

I dont even know what all this means, I just want to provide you with everything I have noticed and hope you guys know. My little brain says maybe its a bandwidth issue with the cables or tv ?

But then I can play cyberpunk 2077, completely maxed out in DX12 4k 120hz everything turned to the absolute max and get no stuttering. And other DX11 games stutter.

[G-ZooM]

If you can play Cyberpunk in 4k/120Hz then it's definitely not a monitor or cable issue - it would show up in every situations.

 

You mentioned you tried nvidia+intel and amd+amd so I'm guessing we cannot blame the youth of the 4090 for this one. However stuttering issues are often related to RAM and storage, especially at high refresh rates, and if I were to update/change computer parts I would reuse it in all configurations. Could it be that you are using the same RAM sticks or SSD from the beginning ? Would you have any way to try with new sticks and SSD? It's a long shot so don't go ordering new parts just to try this on a hunch

[gammatsunami]

Yeah that's what I thought if it were the monitor, every game would get it. 

Certain games seriously never stutter. Others do it constantly. 

 

I have used other ram and ssd, didn't help. I am thinking of upgrading to a 13900k and ddr5 at some point though. 

[G-ZooM]

Are all your games installed on the same SSD?

 

Are they bought on the same store? Could be a launcher issue but that's a really long desperate shot in the dark

[gammatsunami]

They are but I've tried other ones. They are all on different stores.

Monitor will be here tomorrow so I can finally rule that out. 

Such a annoying problem! 

[gammatsunami]

Bit of an update.

After more testing, the games that stutter completely go away if I set to 1440p. When I go to 4k, the stuttering comes back. 

What would cause this? Bandwidth ? 

[G-ZooM]

Bandwidth probably but it could be about anywhere... memory controller, PCIe, storage,...

Are you 100% sure your card is running on PCIe 4.0? My 4090 was stuck at 1.1 and I didn't notice for a while - fixed by a motherboard bios update on AM5.

 

You mentioned that you suspect DX11 to be worst than DX12, what about OpenGL and Vulkan? If you own Doom you could try it, I think it works on both.

[gammatsunami]

Figured it out.

 

Spoke to someone else in another forum. They said they get the same stutter in the same games I do.

 

Turns out its an unreal engine thing. It makes total sense, since all the games I get stutter are unreal engine. The games I earlier said dont stutter, all use a different engine. This is why I think linus in his LG CX video didnt mention it at 4k 120hz, he doesnt seem to play unreal games.

 

Whenever he tests a monitor he plays doom, countstrike, halo, shadow of the tomb raider and civilization . This is why he never encounters the stutter.

 

This is the video that I watched and convinced me to get it; NO unreal engine games

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9n8Hz_RLqw

 

 

 

What an absolute joke. So theres nothing I can do. The main one I would want to fix is dead by daylight, as I have 2k hours in that and play it daily.

 

It makes sense because why else does all the Resident evils, shadow of the tomb raider, Doom, Siege, Dying light 2, halo infinite, cyberpunk all run absolutely perfect, and fortnite is what makes my system stutter like crazy?

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2022-df-direct-weekly-talks-state-of-play-and-horizon-forbidden-west-post-patch-image-quality#:~:text=Typically, this stutter is caused,bothersome on Unreal Engine titles.

 

So basically if I am going to buy a game on pc, I have to google if it is running on unreal engine and if so, buy it on my ps5 instead.

All other games I can get on pc....

[G-ZooM]

Oh wow! I'm glad you figured it out

 

Having worked on multiple projects with Unreal Engine, I can see that being a problem because Epic spends a lot of time making things easier for the developers, saving weeks of redoing basic algorithms, allowing game designers to prototype systems without any knowledge of C++ (which obviously end up in production) and so one. Unfortunately it's always at the cost of raw performance.

 

Ever since I bought the 4090 last week I have been trying out UE5 demos (most games are still on UE4) and the engine itself. The bad news is that there is a lot of stuttering at high resolutions on their cutting edge developments as well... The good news is that because a lot of games are using this engine, if they optimize it somehow at some point, all games could be fixed quiet quickly if the developers still patch the game. On the other hand lots of games are still running at 30 fps on consoles so the studios probably won't care much about 120 anytime soon.

[SamClan]

On 10/15/2022 at 11:52 PM, gammatsunami said:

 

 

An example in another game

You know there is a command in bf 

Perfoverlay.drawgraph 1

Better Google it I am not sure if I spelled it right. 

 

 

It gives you a graph that shows you how long GPU and CPU needed to produce a frame. 

 

 

If CPU spikes you know where to look at. Same goes for GPU. 

 

[gammatsunami]

3 hours ago, G-ZooM said:

Oh wow! I'm glad you figured it out

 

Having worked on multiple projects with Unreal Engine, I can see that being a problem because Epic spends a lot of time making things easier for the developers, saving weeks of redoing basic algorithms, allowing game designers to prototype systems without any knowledge of C++ (which obviously end up in production) and so one. Unfortunately it's always at the cost of raw performance.

 

Ever since I bought the 4090 last week I have been trying out UE5 demos (most games are still on UE4) and the engine itself. The bad news is that there is a lot of stuttering at high resolutions on their cutting edge developments as well... The good news is that because a lot of games are using this engine, if they optimize it somehow at some point, all games could be fixed quiet quickly if the developers still patch the game. On the other hand lots of games are still running at 30 fps on consoles so the studios probably won't care much about 120 anytime soon.

Another good thing is digital foundry are complaining about it hard, but they seem to be the only one doing so. And people probably think because its them, its a nitpick. But it makes the game nearly unplayable for me.

 

It does take the fault from my hands though which is a good feeling, and I can stop putting time and money into it.

 

44 minutes ago, SamClan said:

You know there is a command in bf 

Perfoverlay.drawgraph 1

Better Google it I am not sure if I spelled it right. 

 

 

It gives you a graph that shows you how long GPU and CPU needed to produce a frame. 

 

 

If CPU spikes you know where to look at. Same goes for GPU. 

 

Will do, thank you