What case to get? + build tips

[hinoughTV]

Budget (including currency): Undefined

Country: Norway

Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Mostly gaming, not the newest AAA games, but want the smoothness at 1440p

Other details (existing parts lists, whether any peripherals are needed, what you're upgrading from, when you're going to buy, what resolution and refresh rate you want to play at, etc): Spoiled by 1440p 144hz and want to build to keep that possibilty

 

Im planning and starting to get new parts for a build. Planning to buy in on the RTX4000 series whenever that arrives. 

Im aiming for a I7 12700K, 32gb DDR5 RAM, and whatever 4000 series fits my needs / budget when it releases. 

 

Ive mostly put together a build, but nothing is locked since I cant decide what case to get.

I want to use a AIO, aircooled GPU (No custom loop). I was looking into doing a 420mm AIO, but 360 is more likely to happen.

I was initially looking at the Fractal Design Torrent, but the more reviews I look at, the more I realize that is a case built for aircooling, so Im no longer sure if thats the case Im going for. 

I want a quiet and cool (As cool as possible alongside quiet) build, that possibly leaves out cases like the Define R7. Any tips? Im currently holding a finger on the Corsair 5000D Airflow. For reference in terms of looks. The 5000D and Torrent both look the way I like them to look, no over the top RGB or "gamer look". The case will be placed beneath my desk so wether or not theres a Tempered Glass side panel or bunch of RGB is irrelevant.

 

Im also intentionally oversizing my PSU so there should be room for something like a 1200W PSU.

 

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

Fractal Design Pop XL is available for under 1400 NOK if you want a case that large, the non XL is right at 1000 NOK if you can go smaller.

https://www.proshop.no/Kabinett/Fractal-Design-Pop-XL-Air-RGB-Kabinett-Miditower-Svart/3093763

10 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

m also intentionally oversizing my PSU so there should be room for something like a 1200W PSU.

Why so large?

[hinoughTV]

Just now, IkeaGnome said:

Fractal Design Pop XL is available for under 1400 NOK if you want a case that large, the non XL is right at 1000 NOK if you can go smaller.

https://www.proshop.no/Kabinett/Fractal-Design-Pop-XL-Air-RGB-Kabinett-Miditower-Svart/3093763

Why so large?

To not be stuck, needing to replace the PSU if the rtx4000 series has the insane power req the leaks suggests.

 

The POP series is something I forgot exists. Will check them out. Preferably sticking at a mid case

[NF-A12x25]

13 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

Im aiming for a I7 12700K, 32gb DDR5 RAM, and whatever 4000 series fits my needs / budget when it releases. 

You should go DDR4-3200 CL16, tbh. DDR5 is trash and really expensive. I’m on 32 gigs DDR4-4000 because I got it for cheap, but I’d stick with 3200 or 3600 if I were you.

 

[hinoughTV]

1 minute ago, NF-A12x25 said:

You should go DDR4-3200 CL16, tbh. DDR5 is trash and really expensive. I’m on 32 gigs DDR4-4000 because I got it for cheap, but I’d stick with 3200 or 3600 if I were you.

 

DDR4 vs 5 is a comparison Ive yet to research, but DDR4 is still king for 12th gen?

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

To not be stuck, needing to replace the PSU if the rtx4000 series has the insane power req the leaks suggests.

Then I would wait until we know what power requirements they actually have, what GPU you'll go with and what that particular one requires. The cheapest 1200W in Norway is 2266NOK. No reason to get that if you end up only needing 750W and you can get an RMx for 1300 NOK. 

3 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

The POP series is something I forgot exists. Will check them out. Preferably sticking at a mid case

All I've seen about it is reviews. No hands on experience. @An0maly_76has some hands on experience with that line of cases though. Can't remember which they ended up with. I think it was the non XL variant.

Just now, hinoughTV said:

DDR4 vs 5 is a comparison Ive yet to research, but DDR4 is still king for 12th gen?

DDR5 5200 is roughly the same as DDR4 3200 or 3600 depending on CAS latencies.

[hinoughTV]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

Then I would wait until we know what power requirements they actually have, what GPU you'll go with and what that particular one requires. The cheapest 1200W in Norway is 2266NOK. No reason to get that if you end up only needing 750W and you can get an RMx for 1300 NOK. 

All I've seen about it is reviews. No hands on experience. @An0maly_76has some hands on experience with that line of cases though. Can't remember which they ended up with. I think it was the non XL variant.

DDR5 5200 is roughly the same as DDR4 3200 or 3600 depending on CAS latencies.

That requires patience tho, but yes I should haha.

 

Right so i would be smart to do DDR4 if I end up getting another kit for 64gb down the line

[IkeaGnome]

1 minute ago, hinoughTV said:

That requires patience tho, but yes I should haha.

 

Right so i would be smart to do DDR4 if I end up getting another kit for 64gb down the line

I only went with DDR5 because I got it at a price I couldn't turn down. The kits didn't OC as well as the original owner wanted so I paid DDR4 prices for it practically.

[hinoughTV]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

I only went with DDR5 because I got it at a price I couldn't turn down. The kits didn't OC as well as the original owner wanted so I paid DDR4 prices for it practically.

That makes sense. Probably changing the list up for a DDR4 build then

[Ryuikko]

1 minute ago, hinoughTV said:

That makes sense. Probably changing the list up for a DDR4 build then

What's your current list?

[hinoughTV]

2 minutes ago, Ryuikko said:

What's your current list?

Current list is a very loosely put together list to get a idea of what Im aiming for, BUT:

I7 12700K

Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB Black DDR5 5600MHz 2x16gb (These is likely to change into a DDR4 kit after the thread current status)

Mobo was undecided, but Ive had Gigabytes Auros boards so far and liked them so was eyeing the Z690 Auros Pro DDR5 

Storage is probably ending up on a 1TB nvme ssd of sorts along with 2tb sata SSD for storage.

Cooler is currently on either the H150 og H170 Elite Capellix from Corsair, but not locked on those. Found varying reviews in terms of pump noise on them.

For PSU I was looking at the Corsair HX1200 1200W PSU to oversize it, but the reasonable person would wait until they knew which PSU requirements theyre aiming for.

For GPU Im planning to reuse my 2070 and upgrade it to RTX4000 series whenever that arrives

[hinoughTV]

Looking at a GamersNexus review of the Pop looks like the GPU suffers on aircooling in it, dont know if thats the case in the XL variant though. Comparing to that a Torrent looks like a better choice?

[An0maly_76]

3 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

All I've seen about it is reviews. No hands on experience. @An0maly_76has some hands on experience with that line of cases though. Can't remember which they ended up with. I think it was the non XL variant.

DDR5 5200 is roughly the same as DDR4 3200 or 3600 depending on CAS latencies.

Fractal Design Pop XL is available for under 1400 NOK if you want a case that large, the non XL is right at 1000 NOK if you can go smaller.

https://www.proshop.no/Kabinett/Fractal-Design-Pop-XL-Air-RGB-Kabinett-Miditower-Svart/3093763

 

@hinoughTV

 

This is a bit of a read, but worth slogging through I think. Might want to grab some Doritos and a Coke.

 

Mine actually is the XL version. I chose the Pop for the external 5.25 bays (a rarity in today's market), but also for more cooling.

I just transferred the following from a Corsair 4000X to a Fractal Pop XL Air myself with no regrets.

 

Asus Tuf B550-PLUS

WD Blue 1TB SN570 NVME M.2 SSD

Ryzen 5900X

Scythe Mugen 5

Asus KO-RTX3060ti-8GB-OC

Corsair RM850x

Patriot Viper 4 Blackout DDR4-3200

Pioneer BDR-212DBK

WD Black 6TB HDD

Corsair iCUE Commander Core XT

Corsair LL120 fans (x6)

 

This case is a contender. I may never order another Corsair case. The Pop Air XL I have has excellent cable management, though I felt the tang to hold the rear exhaust fan harness was a bit much. My 4000X was exceedingly aggravating due to difficulties removing the side panels when necessary (I had a random POST failure the first few months and when the board was RMA'd I started looking around, as my external USB Sony DVD-RW taught me I was remiss in not bothering with an optical drive).

 

Others' thoughts on RAM are spot-on. I'm surprised @Somerandomtechyboihasn't chimed in -- their views may seem a bit snarky, but I think they're spot on about RAM. DDR4-3200 is the best price-performance unless you're overclocking the CPU and RAM to the moon (which I don't recommend as this is tantamount to putting a 300 hp nitrous oxide kit on your Grandma's Town Car -- it will eventually blow up). And while PCie4 M.2s have come down in price, they still really aren't cost-effective or necessary. My rig still screams with a PCIe3, because 98% of people out there will not notice anything above 3,500 mbps as being noticeably faster, and any difference isn't worth the extra cost. By the time DDR5 and PCIe4 become really necessary, it will likely be lower-priced than DDR4-3200 and PCIe3 are now.

 

To illustrate, even with a previous kit that was giving a serious case of stupiditis, my rig scored better than expected on Cinebench R23. It ran okay before, but had an occasional POST failure, later found to be RAM that was not QVL'd for my board and CPU, something I would caution you to take into consideration, as I wasted five months and spent about $425 in the course of troubleshooting the situation, $325 of which would not have been necessary had I checked the lists before ordering my parts. Pics of mine as built, more information below.

 

 

Keep in mind, that open gap in my picture actually is factory-filled with a sort of storage tray, and there is a magnet-mount cover for aesthetics should you not need an ODD or use these spaces for hard drives instead. I can also see where a little creativity could convert this space into an extra air intake if needed, sans magnet mount cover.

 

See the specs for yourself at https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/pop/, but goes like this --

 

Pop Mini - mini-ITX / micro-ATX only, mounting for up to four 2.5 / two 3.5 drives.

Pop - Supports ATX boards, mounting for up to four 2.5 / three 3.5 drives.

Pop XL - Supports E-ATX boards, allows one more front cooling fan, mounting for up to four 2.5 / two 3.5 drives.

 

Keep in mind, the drive mounting I refer to is vertical on the steel panel side of the case. My Pop XL Air can mount two 3.5" drives vertically, one above the other, the 2.5 mounting is also a vertical arrangement, back-to-back with the motherboard. The lower ODD bays are what sold me on this case. The cover arrangement is meh, but two ODD drives can be mounted here. However, the supplied 3.5" drive mounting brackets are in this area and must be removed so an ODD can be installed.

 

If you only needed one ODD, however, another bay below it can accept a 3.5" HDD also, or an additional bracket could allow another hard drive in the floor-mount bracket mount location, although there could be clearance / cable management issues. I only mention this because many ATX / E-ATX boards have up to six SATA ports. So the key advantages to the XL are space for E-ATX boards and better cooling capacity.

 

If one one or two 2.5 SSDs are needed, maybe an ODD, the Pop / Pop Mini would be just fine. There's been some grumbling about the Pop Silent elsewhere on this forum, citing a perceived cooling deficiency, to which I offer this. Even the XL variant is only about 2 feet long, two feet tall, and less than 1 foot wide. Calculations show that 5CFM of airflow will completely exchange this case's internal air volume in one minute. I don't see the problem. I probably have more fans than I really need, but better safe than sorry. I rather think those grumbling about the Silent's solid panels are the folks that overclock their processors to 5Ghz and know that it won't survive without being surrounded by a hurricane.

 

I estimate the Silent's side-draft intakes at about 2" x 20", or 40 square inches. I air-cooled my 5900X in a 4000X Corsair with about 34 square inches intake area, and I'm talking with a 5900X running PBO and an RTX3060ti-8GB-OC (in OC mode) peaked at 76C in my heaviest use. Cinebench R23 pushed it a bit harder to 87C -- just below AMD's full-load certification of 90C. As it happens, this setup runs 5-15C cooler in the Pop XL Air after retuning my fan curve. I do, however, keep the room colder than most at 18-20C, due to sensitivity to heat from autism-related sensory issues and severe asthma and allergies. Your temps may vary, as this is shown to be a factor.

 

My only gripe is that the included Aspect 12 RGB fans are not widely available separately for uniformity in additional fans, and the RGB control is kinda meh to me. No biggie, a Corsair iCue Commander and six LL120s on temp monitor were part of my 5900X build. Not an RGB junkie, but I like some for ambience. The temp monitor I have set to be a consistent of blue until about 65, ramping up to cyan at 75, orange at 85, then going red at 90. I've seen a hint of purple at times (cyan + red towards orange, indicating around 78-80. Of course, I had spawned 30 vehicles in BeamNG on the Outside grid map, with high detail at 4K, and set the AI for them all to chase me. I enjoy watching replays of them crashing into each other trying to catch me, but I digress.  Point is, the same scenario routinely saw 78-82C in the 4000X, where the Pop XL Air runs about 70-72C.

 

However, for those who want more fans than are included (3 for standard and mini, 4 for XL), OEM fan availability is limited for the time being. A couple prebuilder sites look to be reselling Aspect 12 RGBs scavenged from Fractal cases if customers request other fans. Otherwise, they don't look to be available individually until November or so. If you decide to get one of these cases, three or four fans should be fine, but if you want more Aspect 12 RGB fans, let me know, I have four brand-new ones, never used. Make me an offer, plus shipping costs. Never used them, replaced with my LL120s before I did anything else.

 

One thing that GamersNexus touched on in their review is that certain features, standard on most cases, are optional on the Pop. USB-C is optional and separate ($10 for the parts to install it in the blocked-off top port -- I don't use it, therefore not a big deal to me). Vertical-mount GPU kit and a few other additions are a bit pricier. But overall, it's a solid case for the base price if you're not getting crazy with your build.

 

A caveat here, more a logistics gripe than a case issue -- The idiot third-party Amazon seller I bought mine form shipped CA to VA 7-day FedEx ground, who made a 2000-mile detour through IL and PA. By contrast, as an OTR trucker, I hauled 44,000 lbs of craft beer 2600 miles from Bend OR to Salem VA in four days, legally. So while retail options are limited just yet, be careful who you buy from if you want it quick.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised

[rikitikitavi]

Closed =/= quiet. More airflow / better cooling - less noise from high rpm fans. Check Gamer's Nexus - they have Noise tests in their Case reviews. Torrent ranks high.

 

New FD Pop Silent might be the one, according to the description (sound-damping foam)

[rikitikitavi]

Also a lot of pre-planing for unknown GPU... while getting a last gen CPU?! AMD and Intel planning to unveil their next gen probably before NVIDIA.

 

For gaming centric CPU: 12700K is money down the toilet. 12600K is already a hard pill to swallow in comparison with 12400.

 

DDR5 might not be relevant for another generation if not more.

[hinoughTV]

5 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

Also a lot of pre-planing for unknown GPU... while getting a last gen CPU?! AMD and Intel planning to unveil their next gen probably before NVIDIA.

 

For gaming centric CPU: 12700K is money down the toilet. 12600K is already a hard pill to swallow in comparison with 12400.

 

DDR5 might not be relevant for another generation if not more.

Yes it is. It relates to the part of the story Im not telling:

My original plan was to adjust my current ITX build to fit the 4000 series gpu when it releases, but then the eldest son in the house has a dying pc. So I suggested he get mine and I do a new build instead. So its not just me being impatient with it  I agree, its a lot of planning for something unreleased, its just how my brain works with these kind of things, trying to make the best I can with the information provided.

The ideal scenario obviously would be wait until I know enough to make the decisions necessary for the build, but that might not be an option. 

[hinoughTV]

7 hours ago, An0maly_76 said:

 

@hinoughTV

 

This is a bit of a read, but worth slogging through I think. Might want to grab some Doritos and a Coke.

 

Mine actually is the XL version. I chose the Pop for the external 5.25 bays (a rarity in today's market), but also for more cooling.

I just transferred the following from a Corsair 4000X to a Fractal Pop XL Air myself with no regrets.

 

Asus Tuf B550-PLUS

WD Blue 1TB SN570 NVME M.2 SSD

Ryzen 5900X

Scythe Mugen 5

Asus KO-RTX3060ti-8GB-OC

Corsair RM850x

Patriot Viper 4 Blackout DDR4-3200

Pioneer BDR-212DBK

WD Black 6TB HDD

Corsair iCUE Commander Core XT

Corsair LL120 fans (x6)

 

This case is a contender. I may never order another Corsair case. The Pop Air XL I have has excellent cable management, though I felt the tang to hold the rear exhaust fan harness was a bit much. My 4000X was exceedingly aggravating due to difficulties removing the side panels when necessary (I had a random POST failure the first few months and when the board was RMA'd I started looking around, as my external USB Sony DVD-RW taught me I was remiss in not bothering with an optical drive).

 

Others' thoughts on RAM are spot-on. I'm surprised @Somerandomtechyboihasn't chimed in -- their views may seem a bit snarky, but I think they're spot on about RAM. DDR4-3200 is the best price-performance unless you're overclocking the CPU and RAM to the moon (which I don't recommend as this is tantamount to putting a 300 hp nitrous oxide kit on your Grandma's Town Car -- it will eventually blow up). And while PCie4 M.2s have come down in price, they still really aren't cost-effective or necessary. My rig still screams with a PCIe3, because 98% of people out there will not notice anything above 3,500 mbps as being noticeably faster, and any difference isn't worth the extra cost. By the time DDR5 and PCIe4 become really necessary, it will likely be lower-priced than DDR4-3200 and PCIe3 are now.

 

To illustrate, even with a previous kit that was giving a serious case of stupiditis, my rig scored better than expected on Cinebench R23. It ran okay before, but had an occasional POST failure, later found to be RAM that was not QVL'd for my board and CPU, something I would caution you to take into consideration, as I wasted five months and spent about $425 in the course of troubleshooting the situation, $325 of which would not have been necessary had I checked the lists before ordering my parts. Pics of mine as built, more information below.

 

 

Keep in mind, that open gap in my picture actually is factory-filled with a sort of storage tray, and there is a magnet-mount cover for aesthetics should you not need an ODD or use these spaces for hard drives instead. I can also see where a little creativity could convert this space into an extra air intake if needed, sans magnet mount cover.

 

See the specs for yourself at https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/pop/, but goes like this --

 

Pop Mini - mini-ITX / micro-ATX only, mounting for up to four 2.5 / two 3.5 drives.

Pop - Supports ATX boards, mounting for up to four 2.5 / three 3.5 drives.

Pop XL - Supports E-ATX boards, allows one more front cooling fan, mounting for up to four 2.5 / two 3.5 drives.

 

Keep in mind, the drive mounting I refer to is vertical on the steel panel side of the case. My Pop XL Air can mount two 3.5" drives vertically, one above the other, the 2.5 mounting is also a vertical arrangement, back-to-back with the motherboard. The lower ODD bays are what sold me on this case. The cover arrangement is meh, but two ODD drives can be mounted here. However, the supplied 3.5" drive mounting brackets are in this area and must be removed so an ODD can be installed.

 

If you only needed one ODD, however, another bay below it can accept a 3.5" HDD also, or an additional bracket could allow another hard drive in the floor-mount bracket mount location, although there could be clearance / cable management issues. I only mention this because many ATX / E-ATX boards have up to six SATA ports. So the key advantages to the XL are space for E-ATX boards and better cooling capacity.

 

If one one or two 2.5 SSDs are needed, maybe an ODD, the Pop / Pop Mini would be just fine. There's been some grumbling about the Pop Silent elsewhere on this forum, citing a perceived cooling deficiency, to which I offer this. Even the XL variant is only about 2 feet long, two feet tall, and less than 1 foot wide. Calculations show that 5CFM of airflow will completely exchange this case's internal air volume in one minute. I don't see the problem. I probably have more fans than I really need, but better safe than sorry. I rather think those grumbling about the Silent's solid panels are the folks that overclock their processors to 5Ghz and know that it won't survive without being surrounded by a hurricane.

 

I estimate the Silent's side-draft intakes at about 2" x 20", or 40 square inches. I air-cooled my 5900X in a 4000X Corsair with about 34 square inches intake area, and I'm talking with a 5900X running PBO and an RTX3060ti-8GB-OC (in OC mode) peaked at 76C in my heaviest use. Cinebench R23 pushed it a bit harder to 87C -- just below AMD's full-load certification of 90C. As it happens, this setup runs 5-15C cooler in the Pop XL Air after retuning my fan curve. I do, however, keep the room colder than most at 18-20C, due to sensitivity to heat from autism-related sensory issues and severe asthma and allergies. Your temps may vary, as this is shown to be a factor.

 

My only gripe is that the included Aspect 12 RGB fans are not widely available separately for uniformity in additional fans, and the RGB control is kinda meh to me. No biggie, a Corsair iCue Commander and six LL120s on temp monitor were part of my 5900X build. Not an RGB junkie, but I like some for ambience. The temp monitor I have set to be a consistent of blue until about 65, ramping up to cyan at 75, orange at 85, then going red at 90. I've seen a hint of purple at times (cyan + red towards orange, indicating around 78-80. Of course, I had spawned 30 vehicles in BeamNG on the Outside grid map, with high detail at 4K, and set the AI for them all to chase me. I enjoy watching replays of them crashing into each other trying to catch me, but I digress.  Point is, the same scenario routinely saw 78-82C in the 4000X, where the Pop XL Air runs about 70-72C.

 

However, for those who want more fans than are included (3 for standard and mini, 4 for XL), OEM fan availability is limited for the time being. A couple prebuilder sites look to be reselling Aspect 12 RGBs scavenged from Fractal cases if customers request other fans. Otherwise, they don't look to be available individually until November or so. If you decide to get one of these cases, three or four fans should be fine, but if you want more Aspect 12 RGB fans, let me know, I have four brand-new ones, never used. Make me an offer, plus shipping costs. Never used them, replaced with my LL120s before I did anything else.

 

One thing that GamersNexus touched on in their review is that certain features, standard on most cases, are optional on the Pop. USB-C is optional and separate ($10 for the parts to install it in the blocked-off top port -- I don't use it, therefore not a big deal to me). Vertical-mount GPU kit and a few other additions are a bit pricier. But overall, it's a solid case for the base price if you're not getting crazy with your build.

 

A caveat here, more a logistics gripe than a case issue -- The idiot third-party Amazon seller I bought mine form shipped CA to VA 7-day FedEx ground, who made a 2000-mile detour through IL and PA. By contrast, as an OTR trucker, I hauled 44,000 lbs of craft beer 2600 miles from Bend OR to Salem VA in four days, legally. So while retail options are limited just yet, be careful who you buy from if you want it quick.

 

Thank you for a detailed review. My question still stands though, will putting a AIO in the pop xl suffocate and burn the GPU? As GN pointed out sort of already happened with a aircooler in the normal pop

[An0maly_76]

15 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

Thank you for a detailed review. My question still stands though, will putting a AIO in the pop xl suffocate and burn the GPU? As GN pointed out sort of already happened with a aircooler in the normal pop

What I remember GN saying about radiators in the Pop was that their monster CPU cooler interfered with the tight clearances for radiators. I've long said that the point of cooling is to force HOT air out and draw COOLER air in , yet people insist on putting intake fans behind a radiator, which just draws the heat back inside across the GPU and CPU. Radiators should be blowing hot air out, period, not sucking it back in. The only reason automotive applications do it that way is that that vehicles have tons of open space beneath to blow the heat out below. PC cases largely don't have that.

 

Also, if you hadn't noticed... When GN alluded to radiator clearance issues, not only was that with the standard Pop Air or Pop Mini Air, I'm thinking they had a brain fart of sorts. I'm pretty sure that's a tower air cooler installed, which an AIO setup eliminates and would not be in the way. I'm actually surprised that GN would goof like that, so if someone knows for sure that that the installed cooler is NOT, in fact a tower air cooler, but some AIO arrangement I've not seen before, I'd love to hear about it. But then again, would an AIO with a self-contained radiator even need a topside radiator in the first place? Either way, I don't see this being an issue in the Pop XL Air. Also, the radiator they were showing looks to be a 280, and I think a 240 would fit just fine without interfering with the rear exhaust fan, maybe even leaving room for a 120 rad for rear exhaust.

 

 

I think where people get in trouble with AIOs is that they don't put much thought into their case choice. Prime example, the gentleman who put a 240 in the front of his NZXT H510. IMO, they were asking for cooling problems due to poor planning.

 

The problem, as you might already see, was not only putting a radiator in front of intake fans that should be pulling cooler air in, not hot air from a radiator, but the solid case front does not allow the fans to get air. Furthermore, it very much appears that the radiator thickness would block the side intakes and hinder air flow, if it got any at all. 

 

My thoughts are that if you're going to run an AIO in a PC, stick to a top radiator, a front radiator is just going to pull hot air back in the case, unless you reverse the fans and blow hot air out the front through a single 360, pulling it in the from the top and rear. I honestly think a lot of people with AIOs create cooling system problems by not thinking about the purpose of the system, to draw cool air in and hot air out, so they draw hot air in trying to over-engineer their cooling system. I honestly think ditching a front radiator for the cooler air the fans would draw in, would allow a single topside 240 or 280 to do the job if the front intake fans pulled cooler air in instead of more hot air through a radiator.

 

That said, I don't recommend liquid cooling, it is cumbersome and unnecessary. I've proven that, my 12-core, 24-thread setup is air-cooled, in spite of running PBO and an OC RTX3060ti. I just have a Scythe Mugen 5 with a 120mm fan, three 120 intake fans, two topside exhaust 120s, and one rear exhaust 120, and it works quite well.

 

But I think if you are set on liquid cooling, you should get a might want to stick to a 240 / 280 topside and a 120 / 140 rear. Leave the front fans for cool air intake, as shown below. Some say order does not matter, but if you want to liquid cool both CPU and GPU, I'm thinking RESERVOIR ---> PUMP/CPU PLATE ---> REAR RAD (120) ---> GPU ---> TOP RAD (240) before dropping down to the reservoir. The idea is to split the heat exhaust between the CPU and GPU, and I think the GPU will be the larger heat load, so it should do well.

 

 

 

[hinoughTV]

18 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

What I remember GN saying about radiators in the Pop was that their monster CPU cooler interfered with the tight clearances for radiators. I've long said that the point of cooling is to force HOT air out and draw COOLER air in , yet people insist on putting intake fans behind a radiator, which just draws the heat back inside across the GPU and CPU. Radiators should be blowing hot air out, period, not sucking it back in. The only reason automotive applications do it that way is that that vehicles have tons of open space beneath to blow the heat out below. PC cases largely don't have that.

 

Also, if you hadn't noticed... When GN alluded to radiator clearance issues, not only was that with the standard Pop Air or Pop Mini Air, I'm thinking they had a brain fart of sorts. I'm pretty sure that's a tower air cooler installed, which an AIO setup eliminates and would not be in the way. I'm actually surprised that GN would goof like that, so if someone knows for sure that that the installed cooler is NOT, in fact a tower air cooler, but some AIO arrangement I've not seen before, I'd love to hear about it. But then again, would an AIO with a self-contained radiator even need a topside radiator in the first place? Either way, I don't see this being an issue in the Pop XL Air. Also, the radiator they were showing looks to be a 280, and I think a 240 would fit just fine without interfering with the rear exhaust fan, maybe even leaving room for a 120 rad for rear exhaust.

 

 

I think where people get in trouble with AIOs is that they don't put much thought into their case choice. Prime example, the gentleman who put a 240 in the front of his NZXT H510. IMO, they were asking for cooling problems due to poor planning.

 

The problem, as you might already see, was not only putting a radiator in front of intake fans that should be pulling cooler air in, not hot air from a radiator, but the solid case front does not allow the fans to get air. Furthermore, it very much appears that the radiator thickness would block the side intakes and hinder air flow, if it got any at all. 

 

My thoughts are that if you're going to run an AIO in a PC, stick to a top radiator, a front radiator is just going to pull hot air back in the case, unless you reverse the fans and blow hot air out the front through a single 360, pulling it in the from the top and rear. I honestly think a lot of people with AIOs create cooling system problems by not thinking about the purpose of the system, to draw cool air in and hot air out, so they draw hot air in trying to over-engineer their cooling system. I honestly think ditching a front radiator for the cooler air the fans would draw in, would allow a single topside 240 or 280 to do the job if the front intake fans pulled cooler air in instead of more hot air through a radiator.

 

That said, I don't recommend liquid cooling, it is cumbersome and unnecessary. I've proven that, my 12-core, 24-thread setup is air-cooled, in spite of running PBO and an OC RTX3060ti. I just have a Scythe Mugen 5 with a 120mm fan, three 120 intake fans, two topside exhaust 120s, and one rear exhaust 120, and it works quite well.

 

But I think if you are set on liquid cooling, you should get a might want to stick to a 240 / 280 topside and a 120 / 140 rear. Leave the front fans for cool air intake, as shown below. Some say order does not matter, but if you want to liquid cool both CPU and GPU, I'm thinking RESERVOIR ---> PUMP/CPU PLATE ---> REAR RAD (120) ---> GPU ---> TOP RAD (240) before dropping down to the reservoir. The idea is to split the heat exhaust between the CPU and GPU, and I think the GPU will be the larger heat load, so it should do well.

 

 

 

Thank you again!

I was set on an AIO because Ive always had anxiety over the extra stress that a towercooler puts on the mobo. Even more so on the 12th gen intel socket.

A top mounted rad was my original plan, but it was a thing up for discussion for sure, a 280 up top would absolutely not be something Im against. My plan was a front intake and maybe a bottom intake if the case supports it well(such as the torrent). And exhaust top and back

[An0maly_76]

11 hours ago, hinoughTV said:

Thank you again!

I was set on an AIO because Ive always had anxiety over the extra stress that a towercooler puts on the mobo. Even more so on the 12th gen intel socket.

A top mounted rad was my original plan, but it was a thing up for discussion for sure, a 280 up top would absolutely not be something Im against. My plan was a front intake and maybe a bottom intake if the case supports it well(such as the torrent). And exhaust top and back

I was concerned about motherboard stress as well, but many, many people run Scythe Mugen 5, Noctua NH-D15, Thermalright Peerless Assassin and others without issue. They usually come with an upgraded backing plate that probably reduces stress on the board, but if you were that worried about it, you could always use piano wire from above for support to reduce stress on the board. I think a 240 up top and a 120 to the rear would be more effective than a single 280 up top, but that's just me.

[hinoughTV]

2 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I was concerned about motherboard stress as well, but many, many people run Scythe Mugen 5, Noctua NH-D15, Thermalright Peerless Assassin and others without issue. They usually come with an upgraded backing plate that probably reduces stress on the board, but if you were that worried about it, you could always use piano wire from above for support to reduce stress on the board. I think a 240 up top and a 120 to the rear would be more effective than a single 240 up top, but that's just me.

That would mean a custom loop wouldnt it? Im not too interested in going that route. I havent had a tower cooler since I had a I7 2700k and a evo212 cooler I think. Maybe its time, but Ill look around. The pop xl is a strong contender for sure!

Right now its either pop xl, torrent or corsairs 5000D. where pop is the strongest one of the bunch so far

[An0maly_76]

2 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

That would mean a custom loop wouldnt it? Im not too interested in going that route. I havent had a tower cooler since I had a I7 2700k and a evo212 cooler I think. Maybe its time, but Ill look around. The pop xl is a strong contender for sure!

Right now its either pop xl, torrent or corsairs 5000D. where pop is the strongest one of the bunch so far

Like I said, liquid cooling isn't necessary. There's nothing on the consumer market that requires it.

[hinoughTV]

5 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Like I said, liquid cooling isn't necessary. There's nothing on the consumer market that requires it.

With that. What cooler would you recommend? The scythe isnt available for me in norway last time I checked

[An0maly_76]

8 minutes ago, hinoughTV said:

With that. What cooler would you recommend? The scythe isnt available for me in norway last time I checked

Noctuas are pricey, but every bit as good, maybe better. They're made in Austria to my knowledge, so availability may be better for you. You might also consider the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120, but I'm not a fan of the installation bracket arrangement. Scythe is quirky too (heat sink is offset and requires a 5/16 (8mm) box end wrench to tighten one of the screws), but a great cooler other than the minor installation issue.

[hinoughTV]

6 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

Noctuas are pricey, but every bit as good, maybe better. They're made in Austria to my knowledge, so availability may be better for you. You might also consider the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120, but I'm not a fan of the installation bracket arrangement. Scythe is quirky too (heat sink is offset and requires a 5/16 (8mm) box end wrench to tighten one of the screws), but a great cooler other than the minor installation issue.

Noctuas are available. Will have to check for thermalrights after work. Thank you!