Case fan recommendations (case recommendations)

[Rainbrew]

Hey, so I planned my build around putting it inside the Be Quiet 500dx and I wanted to run 3x140mm Noctua fans inside (2 intake 1 exhaust) with an NH-D15. I figured that this was a sick end-game air cooling setup in a case with good airflow and good acoustics. I however ran into a massive issue upon installing the new case fans. The Noctua fans would resonate like CRAZY around the 600-700rpm mark and it would make an unbearable noise. Normally this wouldn't be an issue as I could simply just set up their fan profile to be below the threshold for resonance, however having any of the air of Noctua fans interact with the fans on the NH-D15 would cause the heatsink to amplify the resonance. I even tried to use ONLY case fans which didn't help, however I think this case is just extremely susceptible to the resonance generated by the fans as the issue isn't as severe outside of the case (although still very noticeable and annoying).

 

I have contacted Noctua support about this and unfortunately this resonance is a characteristic of the 140mils and there's nothing they can do about it. Running the fans included with the case (pure wings 2) leads to a significantly quieter experience even though the bearings on them are beat up, so my theory is that as long as I use fans of other manufacturers they won't be similar enough in their frequency/vibrations/whatever to induce resonance in the NH-D15.

 

So here's where I stand: I've returned the 140mm fans and re-installed the included case fans. I'd like to swap over to other fans for better cooling and noise levels. At this point since going all Noctua everything is essentially out of the question (unless I go for the 120mm) I'm not opposed to the idea of RGB fans or swapping the case out entirely. I've been considering moving the system to a Fractal Torrent compact as the 180mm fans should provide plenty of airflow and decent noise levels, however I'm also not opposed to just sticking to my current case and putting some new stuff in.

 

I'm generally looking for any thoughts/opinions on some decent fans to stick into the PC, recommendations for a higher-end white case, or just general thoughts and opinions. Troubleshooting the noise for a few days was a very unpleasant process hence why I'm willing to move to a different case in hopes of either better acoustics or just less potential of some wacky interference between the case fans and the CPU fans (torrent has decent 180mm fans from what I've heard). Thanks in advance!

[rwels1]

artic p14 

[1982 Original]

1 hour ago, rwels1 said:

artic p14 

Don’t buy these.  Ugh.  They too have bearing noise in the middle of their RPM range. Arctic fans are cheaply made and quality control is an issue. 
 

Be Quiet Shadow Wings 3 are excellent if you want quiet fans. I don’t have any other advice as I haven’t experience what you are with that case and fan setup. I can emphasize though, I’m super sensitive to noise like that, so I’m sure it’s driving you nuts. Good luck otherwise, just don’t waste your time with Arctic fans. 

[Rainbrew]

3 hours ago, 1982 Original said:

Don’t buy these.  Ugh.  They too have bearing noise in the middle of their RPM range. Arctic fans are cheaply made and quality control is an issue. 
 

Be Quiet Shadow Wings 3 are excellent if you want quiet fans. I don’t have any other advice as I haven’t experience what you are with that case and fan setup. I can emphasize though, I’m super sensitive to noise like that, so I’m sure it’s driving you nuts. Good luck otherwise, just don’t waste your time with Arctic fans. 

Yeah I think the plan is going to be to go for those or their RGB fans (they seem fun). If I notice any weird noise then that'll at least make it clear that something is wrong with the case. I'll be taking out the CPU cooler tomorrow to see if maybe somehow I bent some fins on it and maybe that's what was was causing the weird tone to be emitted.

I'm not THAT clumsy with PC building but the fins are soft and easily bent so you never know...

[1982 Original]

8 minutes ago, Rainbrew said:

Yeah I think the plan is going to be to go for those or their RGB fans (they seem fun). If I notice any weird noise then that'll at least make it clear that something is wrong with the case. I'll be taking out the CPU cooler tomorrow to see if maybe somehow I bent some fins on it and maybe that's what was was causing the weird tone to be emitted.

I'm not THAT clumsy with PC building but the fins are soft and easily bent so you never know...

Good luck. 

[Dogzilla07]

Arctic ARGB and RGB versions of the P12/P14 have reduced resonance issues, and the noise is shifted into higher frequencies. Some people still have issues, but it's better than base P12/P14.

[Ralfi]

Arctic P120 Bionix perform even better than their P12. Another option.

[NorKris]

3 hours ago, Ralfi said:

Arctic P120 Bionix perform even better than their P12. Another option.

 

i would prob avoid the bionix

[Ralfi]

42 minutes ago, NorKris said:

 

i would prob avoid the bionix

 

 

[NorKris]

19 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

 

 

conflicting results

hmm i have seen this testing before, and  .... I have some questions about this cuz he shows the temps go up and not down with more fan speed... how..?

[Jeppes]

17 hours ago, 1982 Original said:

Good luck. 

You dont need luck. Just run fans with a ladder curve and you dont have to pay 100-200% extra for fans with similar performance.

[Ralfi]

45 minutes ago, NorKris said:

conflicting results

hmm i have seen this testing before, and  .... I have some questions about this cuz he shows the temps go up and not down with more fan speed... how..?

Actually, it shows more fan speed/dB brings the temps down. 
 

BTW, I’m not saying your sources are wrong or my sources are right. Just that there doesn’t seem to be a definitive conclusion when it comes to the Arctic range of P12/P120 Bionix fans. 

[NorKris]

1 hour ago, Ralfi said:

Actually, it shows more fan speed/dB brings the temps down. 
 

BTW, I’m not saying your sources are wrong or my sources are right. Just that there doesn’t seem to be a definitive conclusion when it comes to the Arctic range of P12/P120 Bionix fans. 

yeye iknow  

look at temps go up 

very very strange 

[Dogzilla07]

3 hours ago, Jeppes said:

You dont need luck. Just run fans with a ladder curve and you dont have to pay 100-200% extra for fans with similar performance.

There's been two people on 2 different forums in the past few weeks complaining about not just P12, but P12 ARGB/RGB. Specifically they couldn't tolerate neither original harmonic resonance of the P12/P14 even outside the ~850-1150RPM range, nor could they tolerate the less pronounced higher frequency resonance of the ARGB/RGB versions with the ring around.

 

There's not too many people like that, but I have come upon about ~20-30 in total for the past 7-8 years, who have that extremely sensitive hearing, and like always almost no fan works for them other than Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3, and for some Phanteks MP series. If i remember correctly Noctua A12x25 was fine for one person as well (and in theory LCP fans with a good silent IC, and advanced bearing/motors, should be fine).

 

Interesting info for one of the people is he even tested and it's ~300Hz range, and it only happened after his ambient noise floor become very silent, very recently. 

[Jeppes]

Just now, Dogzilla07 said:

There's been two people on 2 different forums complaining about not just P12, but P12 ARGB/RGB. Specifically they couldn't tolerate neither original harmonic resonance of the P12/P14 even outside the ~850-1150RPM range, nor could they tolerate the less pronounced higher frequency resonance of the ARGB/RGB versions with the ring around.

I dont buy it. If I cant hear it I wont believe it unless posted with evidence. People buying expensive stuff are not always the most rational ones and tend to fanboy and try to rationalize spending 6x more than necessary. On all review videos the annoying noise with p12 have been the same as on mine, small rpm-range near 1000rpm. So its only annoying if you want it to be. But people pay 4000€ for audiocables too so what do I know.

[Dogzilla07]

@JeppesIdk about the most recent two, but most of the previous ones over the years were legit, not fanboys, they literally went through hundreds and hundreds of $ of fans documenting in great detail, before settling. 

 

People really do have sensitive hearing, and more than that it's a question of can you get used to the sound. It's not exactly same as audio cables. for audio cables it's the direction of this is "better". For when a certain frequency annoys you to hell, it's the opposite, just wanting the absence of specific noise. You can't just say I can't hear it, when we got stuff like only <26 year olds being able to hear a noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito and so on. Additionally as I mentioned as long as the noise floor where you live is high enough, it will mask most of the frequencies.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

[Jeppes]

2 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

@JeppesIdk about the most recent two, but the ones in the previous were legit, not fanboys, they literally went from hundreds and hundreds of $ of fans documenting in great detail, before settling.

 

People really do have sensitive hearing, and more than that it's a question of can you get used to the sound. It's not exactly same as audio cables. for audio cables it's the direction of this is "better". For when a certain frequency annoys you to hell, it's the opposite, just wanting the absence of specific noise. You can't just say I can't hear it, when we got stuff like only <26 year olds being able to hear a noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito and so on. 

And then the same people claim they cant hear the low buzzing sound coming out of every Noctua fan run over 1200rpm. Somehow I have trouble of believing any of it.

[Dogzilla07]

12 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

And then the same people claim they cant hear the low buzzing sound coming out of every Noctua fan run over 1200rpm. Somehow I have trouble of believing any of it.

I'm one of those people, I can hear it xD, I've only shortly used NF-F12 back in the day, before I went mad, I just can't get used to NF-F12 at all. And I've been using Scythe Gentle Typhoons for a while now, and I've gotten used to the ball bearing grind (which took months). I can hear most if not all the weird frequencies people report that the majority can't, it's just that as long as it's constant, I'll get used to in a few days, weeks and not notice it.

 

Also don't get me wrong, definitely, not all Noctua. NF-A15 are fine, NF-A14 are fine, I've just never been able to use any 120mm Noctua fan other than A12x25 (don't use it personally, but heard them and they're perfectly fine as well). Give me any other 120mm Noctua fan, and I can't handle it (at least in the past).

[Ralfi]

17 hours ago, NorKris said:

yeye iknow  

look at temps go up 

very very strange 

I’d say an anomaly? From ~49dB-50dB only it seems. & it looks to be even, not increasing?

 

But since it’s only for such a small portion of the test, I wouldn’t think it dents the integrity of the testing.

[NorKris]

4 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

I’d say an anomaly? From ~49dB-50dB only it seems. & it looks to be even, not increasing?

 

But since it’s only for such a small portion of the test, I wouldn’t think it dents the integrity of the testing.

ye i dont know, seem to go up when i zoom in XD 

 

[Dogzilla07]

On 4/1/2022 at 11:36 AM, Ralfi said:

Arctic P120 Bionix perform even better than their P12. Another option.

Bionix have a different, but similar problem, Their greatest strength (rubberized design), produces some problems (mainly increases user error for case/radiator mounting), when screws are tightened too much, and in some situations when there's obstruction on the intake (depending on the grill/mesh/filter) it produces weird frequency noise not detected by basic dB/dBA measurement. It will all show up on a noise Spectrum Analysis though. 

 

For instance even though they're are rubberized some of the new Thermalright fans have the same issue.

 

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/arctic-bionix-f120-the-efficient-fan-that-lost-the-fight-with-obstacles/

 

The guys above do Frequency response analysis with fans (same like GamersNexus will do soon). They're also one of the very rare who do vibration testing with a 3D vibration tester. As well testing filters, and a huge amount of data sets for different types of situations and obstacles (Even more than GamersNexus plans to do at start).

 

I didn't even notice before they did grill testing as well (with Sound colour metrics), which matches the Silverstone article :

 

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/analysis-a-hexagonal-grille-is-no-match-for-a-circular-one-in-any-way/

 

https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=usa

[Ralfi]

6 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Bionix have a different, but similar problem, Their greatest strength (rubberized design), produces some problems (mainly increases user error for case/radiator mounting), when screws are tightened too much, and in some situations when there's obstruction on the intake (depending on the grill/mesh/filter) it produces weird frequency noise not detected by basic dB/dBA measurement. It will all show up on a noise Spectrum Analysis though. 

 

For instance even though they're are rubberized some of the new Thermalright fans have the same issue.

 

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/arctic-bionix-f120-the-efficient-fan-that-lost-the-fight-with-obstacles/

 

The guys above do Frequency response analysis with fans (same like GamersNexus will do soon).

Thanks, DogZ. Interesting results, although, seeing as the F-series is less about static pressure & more about air flow, it makes sense.

 

I'd be interested to know their tests RE: Bionix P120 ARGB, since it's a Static-pressure-aimed P120 series fan, sans rubberized design.

 

Appreciate the source.

[Dogzilla07]

@RalfiNp, i stumbled upon these guys just a few months ago, and was astounded by how many different measurements they do. Though it's confusing to figure out all their enormous data xD

 

19 minutes ago, Ralfi said:

I'd be interested to know their tests RE: Bionix P120 ARGB, since it's a Static-pressure-aimed P120 series fan, sans rubberized design.

Bionix P120 ARGB is probably gonna have the same issue like the Lian UNI SL (and the reason why Lian Li released the UNI AL so soon). Because the mechanism for daisy-chaining + the ARGB ring take up too much space, the impeller is effective 90-100mm class size, and not 120mm size. That impacts performance somewhat. Other than that it has a sturdy construction so no resonance issues, but because it's a sturdy construction, it's gonna have vibrational issues when using regular screws (in some rare situations).

As can be seen on the picture above the anti-vibration pads are only on the outside of the fan mounting holes (and while that stops direct vibrational transfer to the metal structure of the case, because of the lack of rubber material through-out the inside of the holes, there will be vibrational transfer  through the screw unfortunately. Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3 have a set of fully rubberized corners for instance (and not just on the outside):

Which is probably one of their key "innovations" that give them advantage over most other fans. Be Quiet!'s design is a balanced middle ground approach between Arctic Bionix and regular vibrational pads.

 

[Dogzilla07]

Blacknoise's full rubber gasket/frame (not to be confused with Noctua's partial rubber gasket/frame for radiators, which does not have rubber coating the whole length of the screws) is another way to completely solve vibrational issues, and Blacknoise did this a decade ago:

 

[NorKris]

39 minutes ago, Dogzilla07 said:

Bionix have a different, but similar problem, Their greatest strength (rubberized design), produces some problems (mainly increases user error for case/radiator mounting), when screws are tightened too much, and in some situations when there's obstruction on the intake (depending on the grill/mesh/filter) it produces weird frequency noise not detected by basic dB/dBA measurement. It will all show up on a noise Spectrum Analysis though. 

 

For instance even though they're are rubberized some of the new Thermalright fans have the same issue.

 

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/arctic-bionix-f120-the-efficient-fan-that-lost-the-fight-with-obstacles/

 

The guys above do Frequency response analysis with fans (same like GamersNexus will do soon). They're also one of the very rare who do vibration testing with a 3D vibration tester. As well testing filters, and a huge amount of data sets for different types of situations and obstacles (Even more than GamersNexus plans to do at start).

 

I didn't even notice before they did grill testing as well (with Sound colour metrics), which matches the Silverstone article :

 

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/analysis-a-hexagonal-grille-is-no-match-for-a-circular-one-in-any-way/

 

https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=usa

if the motor and fan blades are the same the only diff are the frame