AMD might reveal the first 20nm GPUs this year, or they might not :<

[onionring]

This: you guys need to realize how damaging this is for overal growth: Now Nvidia has no fucking reason whatsoever to release top of the line Maxwell cards. They might release gimped cards as we expected (256 bit memory) but they can chill out in that relaxed state without actually pushing maxwell for the entirety of 2015 it seems.

not rly, even if amd wanted to compete, the miners rise the price of their cards so much it doesn t threated nvidia in anyway.

[Misanthrope]

not rly, even if amd wanted to compete, the miners rise the price of their cards so much it doesn t threated nvidia in anyway.

 

Miners are a fluke, one that will be quickly going away anyhow since it's finite in any case. Besides AMD would be still selling a lot of fucking cards so in their mind why should they care if they make another mining friendly product? On the contrary it would mean even more sales and more money

[onionring]

Miners are a fluke, one that will be quickly going away anyhow since it's finite in any case. Besides AMD would be still selling a lot of fucking cards so in their mind why should they care if they make another mining friendly product? On the contrary it would mean even more sales and more money

 

that wasn t the point of my post at all.

 

I only said that atm amd cannot compete AS MUCH with retail price to nvidia gaming card, as their cards are overinflated by mining.

 

if they would sell the r9 290 for 400$ like it should (that s what it is supposed to cost nopt 550-600$) nvidia would lower their price or try to get more powerfull cards out the door. atm there is no real competition on the gaming gpu market.

 

and btw amd doesn t make any more money if the retailer sell the cards 600$ instead of 400$, that s all in th epocket of the retailer. So yes reducing inflation and selling more gpu because of the lower price is ALL in amd favor.

[One Who Craves Souls]

So basically 28nm Maxwell cards this year(no 20nm manufactured and AMD to compete) and 20nm refresh Maxwell 2015?

 

Because AMD will probably release cards anyways like always...

[thewhitestig]

God dammit, I'm tired of this... C'mon already... 20nm was supposed to be here like... 6 months ago. There were rumors back in 2013 that the R9 series would have been 20nm... I'm really disappointed. 

[Humbug]

that wasn t the point of my post at all.

I only said that atm amd cannot compete AS MUCH with retail price to nvidia gaming card, as their cards are overinflated by mining.

if they would sell the r9 290 for 400$ like it should (that s what it is supposed to cost nopt 550-600$) nvidia would lower their price or try to get more powerfull cards out the door. atm there is no real competition on the gaming gpu market.

and btw amd doesn t make any more money if the retailer sell the cards 600$ instead of 400$, that s all in th epocket of the retailer. So yes reducing inflation and selling more gpu because of the lower price is ALL in amd favor.

In the countries that were affected I think that phase is over and prices are coming back to normal.

[Mindtrickz]

God dammit, I'm tired of this... C'mon already... 20nm was supposed to be here like... 6 months ago. There were rumors back in 2013 that the R9 series would have been 20nm... I'm really disappointed. 

 

Ehm, No, AMD are a generation behind Nvidia and weren't expected to come out with 20nm until next year. Nvidia are expected to come out with 20nm this year.

[Biggerisbetter]

I dont know a lot about chips. Bit it's of my understanding TSMC started making 20nm chip for commercial use only and wont start making gpu 20nm consumer chips til the end of this year. Also TSMC just started making apple a8 20mn soc after a delay in manufacturing process.  I think Nvida and AMD new gpu will not hit markets til 2015. Nvida gpu will hit the market around 1st or 2nd quarter of 2015 and AMD 3rd quarter of 2015. This is only my opinion. Between now and then expect lots of chip refresh.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Forget CPUs and GPUs - the backbone of society - the yuppies need their pebbles and their smartphones and their Guggle glasses, bet there will be a bowel movement embeddable in belt buckles too, taking up 20nm fab space next year, pushing human progress to 2017 at the earliest!

[Strider]

Yeah, this does not really comes as a shock. Like others have been saying, moving to 20nm is not only going to take a while for AMD, but Nvidia as well I think. Honestly, if Nvidia gets it out this year, it will be late in the year, and AMD will just pick it up early next year. AMD often does new GPU releases early in the year anyway. So I really don't see this as being that big of a deal.

In all reality, current generation graphics hardware is arguably hard pressed to be properly and fully utilized by games on the market today, let alone anything coming out this year. Especially considering a vast majority of the PC gaming world is still on 1080 and 1440. The current offerings from AMD and Nvidia really have no problems meeting those needs. So waiting until 2015 is not that big of a deal IMO.

Also, look at it from this perspective, with each new generation of GPU that's released, both Nvidia and AMD always hype up how awesome and powerful the new GPU's are. How much better they perform. Then they hit the market and get tested. It's VERY rare that the new generation of GPU is going to be much better in terms of performance than it's predecessor. So while they do have improved performance levels, they rarely ever live up to all the hype both AMD and Nvidia put out there, and they are not so measurably significant as to warrant the upgrade to the next gen if you are on the high end of the last gen. Unless of course there is a new technology being implemented that you really wish to use. This has been the trend for a while now, and it's something many reviewers have noted, even Linus.

So to be honest, other than lower power and thermals, I am really not expecting a lot from 20nm at first, while I am sure it will indeed be a performance jump, it's not going to be so drastic that we need it right now. It will be nice to be well into 20nm a generation or two before 4K becomes more of the PC standard, but for right now, and the next year at least, I don't see it being all that amazing at the current resolutions a vast majority of the market is currently using.

 

Just my humble opinion. =]

[Humbug]

I don't hink we will be seeing R9 23xx this year 

Right now I don't think that AMD feels any desperate need to rush the R9 23xx. They will feel the pressure only if Nvidia launches some faster parts or cuts prices, but Nvidia is having their own problems. For the moment AMD cards are competitive in terms of performance.

 

At least in the high end the problem for AMD is getting enough supply out, right now they are manufacturing as much as they can and selling out easily in every country. They need to find a way to ramp up production and get more cards out there in the market; that will also prevent disasters such as what happened in the USA recently where miners bought up all the supply. Basically any gamer who wants to buy an AMD GPU should be able to do so without worrying about shortages, if they can't it's a missed opportunity for AMD to make money and increase their market share.

[Dylan522p]

Congratulations AMD! It's almost like everyone else hasn't been on 28nm for like a year and half-two years +

[Dylan522p]

Was expected. Nvidia too has been unable to get 20nm out the door.

 

You mean TSMC. The fab guys like to be very vocal about technology, but you have to realize they are still only about to really start pushing out 20nm on really small dies. Ramping 28nm took forever and 20nm is worse. Sandung and Glo realized that and decided to not waste the money and just develop little bit slower and get in with FinFets at 20nm and calling it 16nm. TSMC is probably just offering 20nm but waiting for FinFet before ramping all the way up.

[Dylan522p]

People will feel the 800 series is a crap shoot from NVidia if we get <20% performance gains. Tweaking/improving general things with the architecture isn't going to give anyone a performance increase like what you would see with 50% more cores.

Look at what 750ti does on the same process node. It's about 50%-100% improvement. on 20nm it should be about 10-15% more performance but they would be able to get a lot more cores because of how dense 20nm is.

[Humbug]

Look at what 750ti does on the same process node. It's about 50%-100% improvement.

750ti is a good improvement in terms of efficiency. i.e. performance per watt is good.

But not in terms of performance, not in terms of performance per transistor.

[TheGosuStandard]

Why.... lord have mercy.

[Dylan522p]

750ti is a good improvement in terms of efficiency. i.e. performance per watt is good.

But not in terms of performance, not in terms of performance per transistor.

Yes.... But at the same power envelope look at the performance increase. This is the smallest thing in their product stack for gamers. The Maxwell 20nm series will have the big cores. Efficiency is the same thing as doing more performance in the old power envelope.

[thewhitestig]

Ehm, No, AMD are a generation behind Nvidia and weren't expected to come out with 20nm until next year. Nvidia are expected to come out with 20nm this year.

videocardz.com were spreading rumors back then that the R9 series was gonna be 20nm. Anyways, I agree that AMD is vastly inferior to Nvidia and Intel in terms of technology. 

[Bingbing10]

whats so much better about 20nm ?

[D3MON]

If im not mistaken both companies use tsmc (i went on thier website, typical business blurb...) so when 20nm is available they'll BOTH use it, for now thye BOTh only ahve 28nm so they have BOTh rebranded thier gpu's..
...and yet the fanboys still find stuff to brag about...
nvidia hasnt released thier full maxwell lineup purely because like linus mentioned on the wan show they're waiting to see what amd's reaction will be so that they can adjust whatever they need to for thier higher end cards to stay competitive, however i dont see AMD responding to the 750ti and 750 so itll just be nvidia holding back till semptember when they will release their remaining 28nm maxwell cards, then BOTH companies will start development on 20nm for release in mid-late 2015.
so if your waiting to buy a new card and you're holding off. don't.

[D3MON]

Sure, not rebranding in a technical and true sense like you described, I think the masses feel it's a rebrand when a slightly cheaper product is almost the same as a last gen one people see it as a rebrand (GTX770 not technically a rebrand but close vs R9 280X which is identical to an HD7970 GHz).

 

I would have said that the Kepler Refresh is the 'tick' tbh, look at the gains from GTX570 --> GTX670 --> GTX770. Of course shrinking doesn't automatically give more performance, but it gives more space for more cores etc. 

 

People will feel the 800 series is a crap shoot from NVidia if we get <20% performance gains. Tweaking/improving general things with the architecture isn't going to give anyone a performance increase like what you would see with 50% more cores.

570 is the same gpu core as 480, 770 is same gpu core as 680 so the 570-670-770 arguement is invalid because they're completely differnt cards and segements, the only thing they share is a "70" in the name.

its like comparing the 5870>6870>7870....

5870 was top of its line halo card, 6870 was marketed as "same performance for less" but not being top of its line, and the 7870 has nothing in common with the other 2.

[One Who Craves Souls]

So... forget about 20nm then, milking the 28nm all the way Nvidia! Can't wait for a 780Ti Boost and a R9 290x-2...

[jezza39]

570 is the same gpu core as 480, 770 is same gpu core as 680 so the 570-670-770 arguement is invalid because they're completely differnt cards and segements, the only thing they share is a "70" in the name.

its like comparing the 5870>6870>7870....

5870 was top of its line halo card, 6870 was marketed as "same performance for less" but not being top of its line, and the 7870 has nothing in common with the other 2.

 

Where I am they were in the same $450-ish price point, while being $500 at launch. The 670 was the big leap forward performance wise ('tock'), the 770 is the tick I'm not talking about AMD cards in my point... 

[D3MON]

Where I am they were in the same $450-ish price point, while being $500 at launch. The 670 was the big leap forward performance wise ('tock'), the 770 is the tick I'm not talking about AMD cards in my point... 

fair enough, i see the gtx770 being to the 680 what the 285 was to the 280, ignoring the lack of die shrink the 285 fixed some vrm problems with the 280 and updated it, 770 is just a memory and vrm updated 680,

calling the 680 the 770 is still just a ploy by nvidia to make people say "hey look how we've advanced from the 570-670-770 which is effectively comparing the 480, 670 and 680.....doesnt make allot of sense.

(fwiw i have a 285 and just bought a 480 for my collection so as you can imagine im researching the sh** out of thier architectures atm)

[KakaoDj]

Update: 

KitGuru interprets the quote differently.

 

it is logical to assume that the first AMD products to be made using 20nm fabrication process are graphics processing units (GPUs).

While the senior vice president of AMD did not officially confirm that the first 20nm AMD Radeon GPUs are set to emerge in 2014, her comment regarding coming “to production” may hint on the plan to reveal such GPUs already this year.

 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/anton-shilov/amd-hints-on-20nm-products-in-2014-shares-finfet-tech-adoption-plans/