HD6xx paired with Focusrite+AMP or new DAC???? Audiophile newb

[vWORMHAT]

Hello i just received my MassDrop hd6xx today and they are great! i just want to make sure im squeezing as much juice out of them as possible considering im willing to spend a little more money to make that possible.

 

I currently have a focusrite 2i2 2nd gen and so far the music i listen to sounds loud enough with volume on the focusrite maxed out and volume set in windows to 90-98

 

Im wondering if i would benefited more from an AMP  or a new DAC and then an later in the futre AMP

 

The amp im considering is the Schiit Magni Heresy but if i would benfit somehow from a better dac should i get that first? i would probrably go with a schiit dac and just make a schiit stack 

 

im also using Peace EQ to adjust the listening experience and i have the prevent clipping option selected so im wondering if an amp would allow me to change the eq more and prevent clipping less while i could use the amp to maintain volume.

 

Any input is greatly appreciated!!!!

[Psittac]

I would imagine the "prevent clipping" function is only on the source side, it doesn't know what is downstream. Clipping an amp is running out of juice to drive what you're asking it to drive.  Source clipping is sending a dirty signal.  At least that's my understanding.

 

What are you looking to get out of an upgrade?  Volume or quality?  The 6xx is known for reflecting changes in the chain so if you have the ears they would be the cans to tell the difference.  To me the differences are something you'd have to sit down and A/B test to notice as I did here.  In that thread I explored two headphones with decent onboard vs single ended vs balanced, though I have to say I didn't go to something like a class A amp for comparison, maybe I should do that.  I have a hard time explaining the differences and didn't go much into sound quality but each step up was richer and deeper along with volume changes.

 

One question I would ask, do you want this to be a hobby or are you looking for an end game setup (not price wise but get the equipment and done).  I decided to make it a hobby, so I have 7 headphones and several amps because I get a kick out of contrasting and comparing or just changing up what I'm using every month or two.

 

I'm not familiar with the focusrite but the heresy should be pretty good for end game, whether or not you'll notice the difference vs the regular magni comes down to your ears.  But if it comes down to dac vs amp, you'll get the most improvement out of an amp.

 

I would also add the recommendation that whatever your goals are and whatever you decide on right now, keep the idea of an otl tube amp as part of the chain at some point for specific listening sessions, the 6xx adores tubes.  Ever since I moved my desk into the living room, I have a tube amp next to my couch and have been doing listening sessions where that's all I do, no screen distracting me, and THAT is how you can really start to appreciate differences in equipment.

 

For a tube amp the little dot mkII would do the job rather well but after a while I'd recommend some tubes.  I can dig out the tubes I ended up using and link them if you'd like.

[Spuriae]

If you're basically maxed out on the interface and in windows, getting a more powerful amplifier makes sense. The DAC in the 2i2 is fine, but its headphone amplifier is fairly weak.

[8tg]

You’re gonna want an amp first.

but as a side note, what are you listening to?

You if you already have a dac above onboard I wouldn’t even begin to think about a dac unless you’re limited on what you can play back.

Primarily because, and I may be wrong on this because there are conflicting answers on how the hardware in the 2i2 gen 2 works, it’s topped out at 192khz and even then it’s pretty noisy at playback like that.

 

If you’re only listening to more conventional media or maybe sub-96khz flacs, this isn’t a big deal. But if you’re looking at seeing what really good headphones can do, this is the point to look into things like DSD audio, where having a dac at 192khz without dedicated dsd decoding may be a limiting factor, considering even fairly low end options can do that fine now.

 

[rice guru]

The fosmcusrite dac is fine. But yeah upgrading your amp is a good move especially to get more performance as some frequencies need a good amount of power. I think you could get the magni3+ instead I think it sounds better than the heresy.

[vWORMHAT]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:42 PM, Psittac said:

I would imagine the "prevent clipping" function is only on the source side, it doesn't know what is downstream. Clipping an amp is running out of juice to drive what you're asking it to drive.  Source clipping is sending a dirty signal.  At least that's my understanding.

 

What are you looking to get out of an upgrade?  Volume or quality?  The 6xx is known for reflecting changes in the chain so if you have the ears they would be the cans to tell the difference.  To me the differences are something you'd have to sit down and A/B test to notice as I did here.  In that thread I explored two headphones with decent onboard vs single ended vs balanced, though I have to say I didn't go to something like a class A amp for comparison, maybe I should do that.  I have a hard time explaining the differences and didn't go much into sound quality but each step up was richer and deeper along with volume changes.

 

One question I would ask, do you want this to be a hobby or are you looking for an end game setup (not price wise but get the equipment and done).  I decided to make it a hobby, so I have 7 headphones and several amps because I get a kick out of contrasting and comparing or just changing up what I'm using every month or two.

 

I'm not familiar with the focusrite but the heresy should be pretty good for end game, whether or not you'll notice the difference vs the regular magni comes down to your ears.  But if it comes down to dac vs amp, you'll get the most improvement out of an amp.

 

I would also add the recommendation that whatever your goals are and whatever you decide on right now, keep the idea of an otl tube amp as part of the chain at some point for specific listening sessions, the 6xx adores tubes.  Ever since I moved my desk into the living room, I have a tube amp next to my couch and have been doing listening sessions where that's all I do, no screen distracting me, and THAT is how you can really start to appreciate differences in equipment.

 

For a tube amp the little dot mkII would do the job rather well but after a while I'd recommend some tubes.  I can dig out the tubes I ended up using and link them if you'd like.

Thank you so much for your time and well thought out reply! Im more looking for a end game i guess really good audio setup that will last me a while and not so much looking to do it as a full on hobby right now. I checked out reviews for the Little Dot MkII but was worried the extra accomadations that would come with that might not be worth it for me right now and some people say the difference between the little dot and Magni are hard to distinguish. I received the Magni Heresy today and set it up today, first i tried using this meathod 

But even switching the magni to high gain i still wanted a little more volume headroom, so i now have it setup so that the magni is running through the headphone jack on the focusrite essentially double amping it. Im wondering how bad this is to do for audio quality. Using the meathod in the photo with the gain switch turned off the magni was actually slightly quieter than the focusrite.

 

I might consider a headphone in the future with different characteristics but for now this setup will do and ill make the most of it! any more input you have on double amping is greatly appreciated thanks again for taking your time to reply!

[vWORMHAT]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:57 PM, 8tg said:

You’re gonna want an amp first.

but as a side note, what are you listening to?

You if you already have a dac above onboard I wouldn’t even begin to think about a dac unless you’re limited on what you can play back.

Primarily because, and I may be wrong on this because there are conflicting answers on how the hardware in the 2i2 gen 2 works, it’s topped out at 192khz and even then it’s pretty noisy at playback like that.

 

If you’re only listening to more conventional media or maybe sub-96khz flacs, this isn’t a big deal. But if you’re looking at seeing what really good headphones can do, this is the point to look into things like DSD audio, where having a dac at 192khz without dedicated dsd decoding may be a limiting factor, considering even fairly low end options can do that fine now.

 

I did some research on Flac files and this is what i found here  and here , and not knowing what song id like that would even be available in Flac made me to decide ill keep it in mind and maybe just try it later. I listen to Indie Pop, Pop Punk, Math Rock, Angst?, synth Wave , acoustic versions of songs and soundtracks. Sorry i feel like that was a lot lol, I ended up getting a Schiit AMP today and will report back when i use it more for anyone who might be intrested, Thanks for your reply!

[8tg]

26 minutes ago, vWORMHAT said:

I did some research on Flac files and this is what i found here  and here , and not knowing what song id like that would even be available in Flac made me to decide ill keep it in mind and maybe just try it later. I listen to Indie Pop, Pop Punk, Math Rock, Angst?, synth Wave , acoustic versions of songs and soundtracks. Sorry i feel like that was a lot lol, I ended up getting a Schiit AMP today and will report back when i use it more for anyone who might be intrested, Thanks for your reply!

The best way i could describe this is that the file format isnt the only factor here. Just as you can have a 240p PNG file or an 8K UHD PNG file, you can have a 44.1khz, 24 bit flac, very average, about 2100kbps.

But flac is very variable in that it can be 16 bit, 24 bit, 32 bit, a sampling rate of a mere 44.1khz to 192khz to 352khz and theoretically further beyond.

 

With HD6xx's youre at the point where youre really going to notice the difference between compressed formats and uncompressed formats, and further youll notice some differences between fairly basic flacs and the very high detail flacs. Your dac will limit you to 192khz because thats the highest sampling rate its capable of.

 

Whether or not that matters to you at all is entirely subjective, if thats something you want to get into you can look into it, its some real nerd shit just to be forewarned.

 

 

Example, heres a flac file, 44.1khz, 24 bit, around 2100kbps of data throughput

 

Spoiler

 

This is a pretty conventional flac, its a bit above the bottom of decent flacs which is around 1400kbps

 

Heres a 192khz flac:

 

Spoiler

 

Note that its 9.2mbps at this point, an individual track is 125mb (larger than an entire 320kbps mp3 album)

 

Heres DSD256, which is a bit more complicated to explain, its measurement is "times CD quality", 256 x 44.1khz, you get a 472mb file thats playing back at 22.5mbps

 

Spoiler

 

 

This is just something to keep in mind, you have the hardware to really experience the beginning of higher end audio. But all this was to state a point that you really dont need a dac, since most media you'd likely come across will be nowhere near anything with a 192khz sampling rate, and only if you wanted to go further than that would you need a dac.