Router/AP recommendation?

[ve4grm]

After a few years and no end of trouble with my current D-link router setup (unstable wifi, poor range, dropped signal, device connected but says no internet connection, etc) I'm biting the bullet and getting a new one. But I need advice.

 

- I don't want to spend more than about $150 CAD

- I want to set it up as an AP in the center of my house, using the old router for the base wired network (it's always been fine with wired connections, just wifi was crap). There is an ethernet connection there already.

- I have a 1 story house, about 1200 sq ft. It needs to have enough power to provide solid connection in the basement. Back yard would be nice as well.

 

In my price range, I have found a few router options.

- ASUS RT-AC65 -- AC1750

- Linksys EA7300-CA -- AC1750

- Netgear R6350-100CNS -- AC1750

- ASUS RT-AX55 -- AX1800

- Linksys E7350 -- AX1800

- TP-Link AX20 -- AX1800

 

I'm looking for info on brands and reliability, and which of the above support AP mode (it's incredibly hard to tell).

 

Is it worth spending a little more for Wifi 6? All my current devices are Wifi 5, but I expect when I get my next phone it will support 6.

What about spending the same as the Wifi 6 models for AC1900?

 

And if anyone has suggestions for dedicated APs, I'd appreciate that as well.

 

Thanks so much!

[AndreiArgeanu]

Have you considered purpose made POE access points over a router. I think in your scenario it might make more sense to get 1/2 good POE access points and mount them in your house rather than buying a router. With a POE access point all you need is 1 cable to it and they're often pretty compact allowing you to mount them in many more places while being discrete.

[IPD]

What are you using now?  2.4ghz?  5ghz?  Are your interior walls drywall or brick?  How linear is the layout?  Is the AP on one end of the house and you need to reach to the other with good signal?

 

If you can, I'd go AX, as I recommend going with the latest/greatest, as the standards are backwards compatible.

[ve4grm]

28 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

Have you considered purpose made POE access points over a router. I think in your scenario it might make more sense to get 1/2 good POE access points and mount them in your house rather than buying a router. With a POE access point all you need is 1 cable to it and they're often pretty compact allowing you to mount them in many more places while being discrete.

I've considered the discrete APs, but I don't really know what to get or where to get them. If you have recommendations, they are welcome.

 

As for PoE, my switch (in the basement) isn't PoE at the moment, and I can easily place things beside outlets so it isn't required. But I'd be willing to consider it.

 

23 minutes ago, IPD said:

What are you using now?  2.4ghz?  5ghz?  Are your interior walls drywall or brick?  How linear is the layout?  Is the AP on one end of the house and you need to reach to the other with good signal?

 

If you can, I'd go AX, as I recommend going with the latest/greatest, as the standards are backwards compatible.

I'm currently using 5GHz AC. The interior is mostly plaster, with some drywall in rooms that were redone more recently. Current setup is 1 router one end of the upstairs, and a second on the opposite end of the basement. Signal from my upstairs router (with just internal antennas) drops to about -60 dbm just by going downstairs on the same end of the house, and -80/-90 on the other side of the basement.

 

House is fairly linear, one hall with rooms off it. Now that the ethernet is run, placing an AP in the center of the house is fully possible as well.

[IPD]

Honestly, a 2 point mesh system is probably going to give you the max coverage/benefit you can get.  But mesh doesn't usually run in that price range.  Extenders can always be an option, but they are sub-par, as they split your speeds in half.  But....if you have ample speed on your existing router, maybe that's not as big of a deal.

[Falcon1986]

9 hours ago, IPD said:

Extenders can always be an option, but they are sub-par, as they split your speeds in half. 

They're half-duplex devices. Additionally, they only "repeat" what they get, so if you provide them with an already-weak signal, that's half-duplex on a weak signal. A poor solution if other options exist.

 

9 hours ago, IPD said:

Honestly, a 2 point mesh system is probably going to give you the max coverage/benefit you can get.

I disagree. The OP's original plan to use APs or convert wireless routers to AP mode is still the best option as there is a reliable ethernet uplink. Mesh, in it's traditional sense, relies on an wireless backhaul, which means that if the units are going to face obstruction/interference with clients, they'll face the same problem trying to communicate with each other.

 

17 hours ago, ve4grm said:

House is fairly linear, one hall with rooms off it. Now that the ethernet is run, placing an AP in the center of the house is fully possible as well.

Sketch and post a floor plan, while also highlighting where your existing network hardware is located and a general idea of the signal strength.

 

What speeds are you paying for from your ISP?

[ve4grm]

4 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

They're half-duplex devices. Additionally, they only "repeat" what they get, so if you provide them with an already-weak signal, that's half-duplex on a weak signal. A poor solution if other options exist.

 

I disagree. The OP's original plan to use APs or convert wireless routers to AP mode is still the best option as there is a reliable ethernet uplink. Mesh, in it's traditional sense, relies on an wireless backhaul, which means that if the units are going to face obstruction/interference with clients, they'll face the same problem trying to communicate with each other.

 

Sketch and post a floor plan, while also highlighting where your existing network hardware is located and a general idea of the signal strength.

 

What speeds are you paying for from your ISP?

ISP speeds are 600Mbps from Shaw.

 

Floor plan, see attached. It's not 100% accurate, but close enough.

ETH in blue is current ethernet connections. It's easy enough to run others.

There's a central switch in the utility room, and 2 wireless routers (D-link DIR-850L) on either side of the house, one on the main floor and one in the basement.

The routers don't technically have AP modes, but I have configured the downstairs one to send all DHCP to the upstairs in order to act as an AP. They have the same SSID on different channels.

 

Signal from the main router is about -30 to -40 in the living room, drops to -50/-60 in the bedrooms/office. Serviceable.

Drops to -60/-70 in the basement right beside the stairs, -80/-90 on the other end of the basement, where the second router is.

 

Signal from second router is around -40/-50 right beside it for some reason, then similar dropoffs.

 

My thought was to place a single main AP at the office ethernet jack, to replace both of the current ones. (Main router would need to stay in the living room, but with the wifi turned off so it doesn't cause interference.)

 

Coverage isn't the issue per se. The issue is more that the wifi will often connect, but claim there is no internet, despite all other wifi devices working fine and all ethernet connections doing just fine. This happens every couple days lately with our android phones, and on rare occasions with my work laptop. Router needs to be reset for it to fix itself.

 

Also, some of the not-always-on ethernet devices has similar issues connecting once turned on. Specifically Xbox and steam link sometimes just claim the network doesn't exist, despite being hard wired (admittedly through 2 switches before it gets back to the router, but still.)

 

It's enough different devices with the same/similar issues that I'm 99% sure it's the router, and it's gotten worse over time. As such, I'm kind of just fed up with these routers and looking for a new setup.

[Falcon1986]

19 hours ago, ve4grm said:

and 2 wireless routers (D-link DIR-850L) on either side of the house, one on the main floor and one in the basement.

The DIR-850L is not bad when it comes to sustaining close-to-gigabit WAN-to-LAN connection, so you having a 600Mbps internet connection is fine for that. Where it suffers is on the WiFi throughput for both 2.4GHz and 5GHz, and balancing traffic loads during heavy usage.

 

20 hours ago, ve4grm said:

ISP speeds are 600Mbps from Shaw.

What does Shaw provide you with? A modem or a gateway? If it's a gateway (combo modem/router/switch/AP) and you're running a DIR-850L in router mode, that can probably be causing some conflicts: not just double-NAT, but also LAN IP lease changes occurring on both subnets which can result in momentary client disconnections.

 

20 hours ago, ve4grm said:

The routers don't technically have AP modes, but I have configured the downstairs one to send all DHCP to the upstairs in order to act as an AP.

I realized that. While D-Link has a round-about way of running in AP mode, this isn't always a true AP mode.

 

20 hours ago, ve4grm said:

Floor plan, see attached. It's not 100% accurate, but close enough.

It's perfectly fine. You have a good layout to work with, especially with the ethernet ports.

 

I'd advise you to check the integrity of the ethernet runs. There are LAN cable testers that you can get online for cheap. I'm in the process of doing the same at my parents home after several years since initial installation and I'm finding faults that have been the culprit of unstable connections.

 

On 10/4/2021 at 12:01 PM, ve4grm said:

- ASUS RT-AX55 -- AX1800

From your list, I'd go with this. If you can get 2 to replace the current pair of DIR-850Ls, that would be ideal. As for what mode to use, you'll have to determine what kind of ISP device Shaw gave you. Should it be a gateway with no ability to run in bridge mode, you can run both RT-AX55s in AP mode with an ethernet uplink to the gateway. However, if the Shaw device can be run in bridge or passthrough mode, you can run one of the RT-AX55s in the default router mode and the other in AP mode.

 

As for placement, you should be open to moving devices around to get the best coverage. Understandably, this isn't always possible, but keep in mind that central placement in an open area is always best, not right up against a wall, low to the ground or in a cabinet with obstructions all around.

[ve4grm]

3 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

The DIR-850L is not bad when it comes to sustaining close-to-gigabit WAN-to-LAN connection, so you having a 600Mbps internet connection is fine for that. Where it suffers is on the WiFi throughput for both 2.4GHz and 5GHz, and balancing traffic loads during heavy usage.

 

What does Shaw provide you with? A modem or a gateway? If it's a gateway (combo modem/router/switch/AP) and you're running a DIR-850L in router mode, that can probably be causing some conflicts: not just double-NAT, but also LAN IP lease changes occurring on both subnets which can result in momentary client disconnections.

 

I realized that. While D-Link has a round-about way of running in AP mode, this isn't always a true AP mode.

 

It's perfectly fine. You have a good layout to work with, especially with the ethernet ports.

 

I'd advise you to check the integrity of the ethernet runs. There are LAN cable testers that you can get online for cheap. I'm in the process of doing the same at my parents home after several years since initial installation and I'm finding faults that have been the culprit of unstable connections.

 

From your list, I'd go with this. If you can get 2 to replace the current pair of DIR-850Ls, that would be ideal. As for what mode to use, you'll have to determine what kind of ISP device Shaw gave you. Should it be a gateway with no ability to run in bridge mode, you can run both RT-AX55s in AP mode with an ethernet uplink to the gateway. However, if the Shaw device can be run in bridge or passthrough mode, you can run one of the RT-AX55s in the default router mode and the other in AP mode.

 

As for placement, you should be open to moving devices around to get the best coverage. Understandably, this isn't always possible, but keep in mind that central placement in an open area is always best, not right up against a wall, low to the ground or in a cabinet with obstructions all around.

Shaw proves a gateway. I'll explore if it has a passthrough mode, but I don't think so. Regardless, I don't really expect it's causing my issues, since it only ever affects one or two devices at a time, and all other devices connected to the router have connection just fine.

 

The only ethernet run I'd be questioning the integrity of is the SW corner of the living room (TV, where the Xbox and steam link live) so I'll look into checking that. The cable tester is probably something I should have picked up when I first started making my own cables anyways. But all the other issues have been on Wifi, which doesn't attach to that run.

 

Thank you for the recommendation! We're doing a bit more testing before we purchase anything, but I'll take it into account.

[Falcon1986]

47 minutes ago, ve4grm said:

Regardless, I don't really expect it's causing my issues, since it only ever affects one or two devices at a time, and all other devices connected to the router have connection just fine.

Something to keep in mind is that gateways run their own DHCP server. So if you have that running and then the DHCP server on one of the DIR-850L running, that can cause issues.

 

On some gateways you can't run them in passthrough or bridge mode. The workaround that I've found is to assign your router a static IP address on the gateway itself, then put your router's LAN on a completely different subnet with its own DHCP pool. Avoids the router disconnecting when the gateway tries to renew IP leases and your LAN is only being served by the router's DHCP server.

[ve4grm]

14 minutes ago, Falcon1986 said:

Something to keep in mind is that gateways run their own DHCP server. So if you have that running and then the DHCP server on one of the DIR-850L running, that can cause issues.

 

On some gateways you can't run them in passthrough or bridge mode. The workaround that I've found is to assign your router a static IP address on the gateway itself, then put your router's LAN on a completely different subnet with its own DHCP pool. Avoids the router disconnecting when the gateway tries to renew IP leases and your LAN is only being served by the router's DHCP server.

Interesting. I don't remember whether it's on a static IP, but I'll check it.

It is on a different subnet, so that part should be fine. (modem uses 192.168.1.x, router uses 192.168.100.x)

Thanks!