R9 290; why the hate?

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

So I've seen a lot of people hating on the R9 290 because of the amount of heat it puts out and a lot of people recommending GTX 780's because they apparently run "a lot" cooler. I looked up the TDP for them both and as you can see in these articles (R9 290 and GTX 780), the R9 290 has a TDP of 300w, while the GTX 780 has a TDP of 250w.

 

So that's only a difference of 50w, which doesn't seem that much to me. If it really isn't much, why are people recommending the 780 over the 290 even if the 290 in question has an aftermarket cooler? I'm aware the stock 290's cooler is crap.

 

In Australia at least, there is a big enough price difference between the two that I would be inclined to think the 290 is better value. The cheapest 290 you can get here is $519 (XFX) whereas the cheapest 780 you can get is $579 (Gigabyte), both from PCCG.

 

So why the hate? Are most people on here really Nvidia fanboys?

[SAV1OUR]

BITCOIN

[PillowSmoke]

Reference is hot hot hot.

[Amanaman83]

All of the coin miners jacked up the price of the 290, making the 780 a better deal(in America at least...)

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

Reference is hot hot hot.

 

I'm talking about non-reference cards here.

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

All of the coin miners jacked up the price of the 290, making the 780 a better deal(in America at least...)

 

Pretty much only North America.

[PillowSmoke]

I'm talking about non-reference cards here.

 

Oh, in that case. The prices because of miners/mining. They have essentially jacked up the prices, and the availability of them. 

[Jvagle875]

A large portion of the people here are in NA if I were to make a guess. People like to harp on the same point of heat because it's easy. However, now with aftermarket coolers, that point is moot.

[GamerDude]

Pretty much only North America.

Yep, seems this cryptocurrency craze is centered mostly in the US. In my neck of the woods, I did hear of a guy who had gotten 14 R9 290's to mine for cryptocurrency, but he's a rare exception rather than the rule. I'd gotten my R9 290X reference models at a pretty good price, came with BF4 as well, since I knew I was going water cooling. In fact, most GTX780 here cost as much as a typical 290X, with most GTX780 priced above R9 290's. There is no cryptocurrency craze here, and nVidia cards always carry a price premium here vs the US. A typical GTX780 Ti cost about 840USD here, even the most expensive R9 290X that I know of (Asus DCU II, not sure about the Lightning though) cost a fair bit less than that.

 

The thing is, with reference coolers, the cards do run pretty hot, this coming from a guy who ran dual HD2900XT's (back in the days) which ran pretty hot and loud as well. But with more non-reference models showing up in the market, the much derided heat issue has become a non-issue/moot. My nephew had recently gotten an Asus R9 290X DCU II, under load after more than an hour of playing BF4, his max temp is about 70C, pretty good considering his card in a case and NOT out in the open like some who run benchmarks/reviews. FYI, my nephew used to be just about nVidia, whenever he'd upgrade, he'd think of only nVidia. But upon trying the HD6990 about 3 years back, he's changed his philosophy. He went and got the Asus R9 290X all by himself, I was shocked actually since I'd believed he'd go nVidia this time round. I queried him about this and he said that he'd no issue with the HD6990, and that it handled games very well, so naturally he'd stick with AMD since the Asus R9 290X DCU II was pretty well reviewed (I think there was some issue initially with the mounting of the heatsink to the card, but it has been resolved) and he wanted a single very powerful card to game at 1080P maxed out.

[SkilledRebuilds]

A large portion of the people here are in NA if I were to make a guess. People like to harp on the same point of heat because it's easy. However, now with aftermarket coolers, that point is moot.

Pretty much.

My 290 @ stock does not go over 75*c after hours of gaming, my older 7950 OC went to 78*c.

 

Heat is nothing new, aftermarket cards cancel out the "So hot, many volcano's!!" crap-talking, but people still ignore that and when called on their post, say " I meant reference".

 

Loving my Gigabyte 290, faster, quieter & cooler than my old cards... so yeah no hate from me, love it!

[DoubleY]

Pretty much.

My 290 @ stock does not go over 75*c after hours of gaming, my older 7950 OC went to 78*c.

 

Heat is nothing new, aftermarket cards cancel out the "So hot, many volcano's!!" crap-talking, but people still ignore that and when called on their post, say " I meant reference".

 

Loving my Gigabyte 290, faster, quieter & cooler than my old cards... so yeah no hate from me, love it!

The cards are still crazy hot... after market cooler or not. It's still a 300watt TDP

 

Yep, seems this cryptocurrency craze is centered mostly in the US.

Wat. Have you not heard of China and Russia? China has A LOT of the miners, and BTC-E is a Russian company 

[SkilledRebuilds]

The cards are still crazy hot... after market cooler or not. It's still a 300watt TDP

Which means nothing to me...and surely means nothing to other users....

If you have a reason to get a bigger GPU, expect reasoning to get better cooling.

 

Its only a obscene number if you cannot cool it properly, which isn't that hard to be honest.

I've seen a few smaller cases than my N600 with 290's in them, as EVERYONE's opinion of their system varies : What I find trivial>Someone might find to be a huge deal...

 

If you have the ability to cool it, 300w or 350w's mean nothing.

If you could NOT cool it, then its an issue, and you'd find alternatives (case with side panel fans for cooling extraction or intakes)

 

The 7950 heavily overclocked I had in here WAS hotter than my 290, so you saying 300w's of heat,..... means nothing to me personally, if I can cool it with AIR and below 75*c, others can too.

 

Yes its warmer than what people expect, but EASILY cooled by aftermarket coolers, why is it a big thing...?

[GamerDude]

Exactly, it doesn't matter what TDP the GPU has, what matters more is the cooler's ability to keep temps at a reasonable level. As mentioned, my nephew's Asus R9 290X DCU II hits about 70C after more than an hour of BF4, so what's the issue with temps on non-reference R9 290/290X? I

 

When I was running my R9 290X with stock cooling (for a month since I wanted to be sure the cards were in good working order) I was hitiing about 80C since the fans on the cards would rev up, but the cards were stable and had no issue. I've since gone water cooling and the cards idle at 34C to 36C (depending on room ambient temp) with load temps at around mid 50C.

[Bluuz]

So that's only a difference of 50w, which doesn't seem that much to me. If it really isn't much, why are people recommending the 780 over the 290 even if the 290 in question has an aftermarket cooler? I'm aware the stock 290's cooler is crap.

That's exactly it though, it is a significant difference. People can argue that it's only a 50w difference, but the bottom line is that that difference, no matter how you look at it, is enough a ~15 degrees difference in operating temperature, and that's something you can't ignore.  

 

As for aftermarket coolers, it helps alleviate the problem but doesn't really solve the root of the problem: It's like putting expensive clothing on a repulsive woman. 

 

So why the hate? Are most people on here really Nvidia fanboys?

This actually irks me, as someone who made a recent gpu purchase. At the end of the day, all everyone wants is to buy a working gpu that can power their games. However, we now live in an age where it is expected that our graphics card will power our games and also do so quietly, without heating up the room. 

 

So why would anyone voluntarily settle for anything less? Last generation, the 7970 vs nvidia card was actually debatable. The 670 performed worse but was cheaper. The 680 performed better(in some games) but was more expensive. You could make the case with this generation too, but the 290 just stands out as it carries so much additional baggage, so much that the performance gain over a competitor doesn't even seem worth it. AMD can say 95 degrees is safe all they want, but as a customer that has heard of others encountering problems, such as components getting ds-soldered at this temperature, that worries me, and I cannot fathom why anyone would voluntarily take such a risk when they could just buy a different card save some money, and more importantly, save themselves the hassle.

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

*snip*

 

Good point, but I don't really agree with the whole "it helps alleviate the problem but doesn't really solve the root of the problem" bit. If the card is running cooler, it's running cooler. An aftermarket r9 290 is not going to have problems like the ones you stated and if AMD says it's ok, they've probably done something to make sure it'll be ok.

 

If you put a stock r9 290's cooler on a gtx 780, don't you think the 780 would also have issues with heat and noise? I think it would, even if it normally runs 15% cooler.

[GamerDude]

At Bluuz

 

Yes, AMD GPU's do tend to get hotter than their nVidia counterparts, but unless you're from a country where AMD card prices are affected by the cryptocurrency mining bug, AMD cards are pretty well priced. In my neck of the woods, even R9 290X with 3rd party coolers are priced about the same as some GTX780's. 

 

Another thing is, you have your set of values while others have theirs, surely you can't expect everyone to abide by your set of values, can you? Just like I don't expect you to accept my set of values, neither can you expect others to abide by yours.....in the end, it's their choice since they'd be investing their time, effort and money with the choices they make. I've been using both nVidia and AMD GPU's for a while now, but my preference has always been AMD (and before that, ATi as I'm somewhat of a fanATIc), I've had no major issue running SLi and CF, and no issue hardware-wise either. 

[Bluuz]

Another thing is, you have your set of values while others have theirs, surely you can't expect everyone to abide by your set of values, can you? Just like I don't expect you to accept my set of values, neither can you expect others to abide by yours.....in the end, it's their choice since they'd be investing their time, effort and money with the choices they make. I've been using both nVidia and AMD GPU's for a while now, but my preference has always been AMD (and before that, ATi as I'm somewhat of a fanATIc), I've had no major issue running SLi and CF, and no issue hardware-wise either. 

 

My tone may have been too harsh, let me try to clarify. What I mean to say was that low noise and low temps are universally good things. It may not be a primary concern, but nobody wants more heat or more noise. My point is that we no longer need to make tradeoffs, where in the past we had to choose between a noisy and powerful card or a weaker, quieter one; today we have options that are incredibly powerful and quiet/cool. Essentially, we can "have our cake and eat it too."

[GamerDude]

My tone may have been too harsh, let me try to clarify. What I mean to say was that low noise and low temps are universally good things. It may not be a primary concern, but nobody wants more heat or more noise. My point is that we no longer need to make tradeoffs, where in the past we had to choose between a noisy and powerful card or a weaker, quieter one; today we have options that are incredibly powerful and quiet/cool. Essentially, we can "have our cake and eat it too."

Yes, I agree, hence my belief that AMD tend to release cards with craptastic reference coolers.....as well as coolers that aren't as aesthetically pleasing as the green team's. That's why some of the more patient ones wait for AMD card with non-reference coolers before buying. Like my nephew who had just gotten an Asus R9 290X DCU II, he says it's much quieter than his previous card (a HD6990) and temps after more than an hour of BF4 hovered around 70C.

 

On my part, I needed reference cooled R9 290Xes because I knew I was going under water......that sounded odd. :blink:

[JamGorby]

 

 

So that's only a difference of 50w, which doesn't seem that much to me.

Put one hand on a 50watt bulb and the other on a 100watt bulb and have someone turn them on at the same time. See which one makes you go ouch first. 

As for IC's, it's a petty big difference. 

[Tam3n]

The heat give's people a reason to bash the card... Though the after market solutions run just fine.

[Gunjob]

Well the card didn't really set good impressions on launch with it being a very hot card under reference cooling and then once they'd fixed that the price was inflated by North American E-retailers. Which people have clung to like poo to arse hair. As long as you're not buy a Reference cooled card and do not live in North America (which is impossible to grasp for some of those in the colonies) It is a very reasonable choice of card. 

[hawaiims]

Put one hand on a 50watt bulb and the other on a 100watt bulb and have someone turn them on at the same time. See which one makes you go ouch first. 

As for IC's, it's a petty big difference. 

Most people don't seem to realize the correlation between power consumption/wattage and heat.

 

Do people not realize the reason why mobile ARM processors don't need fans and just use passive cooling?

[tobben]

In Australia at least, there is a big enough price difference between the two that I would be inclined to think the 290 is better value. The cheapest 290 you can get here is $519 (XFX) whereas the cheapest 780 you can get is $579 (Gigabyte), both from PCCG.

 

So why the hate? Are most people on here really Nvidia fanboys?

i would go with 780 over 290 if the difference is 60$, for those 60$ you get a cooler card with slightly lower power consumption that is alittle bit faster and overall a more efficient design, i love amd and all, i have a 7950 myself and i think the card is great, but the 780 is just more appealing to someone who wants a efficient clever solution, the 290 is abit of a monstrosity but i don't dislike it based on that but the price difference would have to be abit bigger, and then amd wouldn't be making money at ALL.

 

that's me.. the main reason people hate on the card is heat and noise, which is only because the stock cooler is garbage, but it gives them an excuse to bash it, they wouldn't approve of it in the first place, they are just loking for a reason to hate it.

[paras]

It runs really very hot so less overclocking potential and Bitcoin.

[SpaghettiCarbonara]

Put one hand on a 50watt bulb and the other on a 100watt bulb and have someone turn them on at the same time. See which one makes you go ouch first. 

As for IC's, it's a petty big difference. 

 

That's a bit different. What I meant was 300w compared to 250w isn't much of a difference. That's only a 16.67% increase. I'm sure if you put your hand on a 250w bulb and a 300w bulb, it wouldn't feel a lot different (probably because your hand is too sore after the first one )

 

i would go with 780 over 290 if the difference is 60$, for those 60$ you get a cooler card with slightly lower power consumption that is alittle bit faster and overall a more efficient design, i love amd and all, i have a 7950 myself and i think the card is great, but the 780 is just more appealing to someone who wants a efficient clever solution, the 290 is abit of a monstrosity but i don't dislike it based on that but the price difference would have to be abit bigger, and then amd wouldn't be making money at ALL.

 

that's me.. the main reason people hate on the card is heat and noise, which is only because the stock cooler is garbage, but it gives them an excuse to bash it, they wouldn't approve of it in the first place, they are just loking for a reason to hate it.

 

That's $60 for the cheapest ones. If you want a decent cooling solution, it's a lot more. Lets go with the most recommended ones, the Sapphire r9 290 Tri-X and the EVGA gtx 780 ACX. That's a price difference of $140.