Newbie to Audiophile needing help

Fusioncore21 · April 20, 2021

Hi there!

As I have some time to kill, I'm deciding to get into the rabbit hole of headphones, DACs and AMPs.

My main question I have is this:

Will my Behringer UMC22 Microphone Pre-Amp's headphone out be powerful enough to run some Drop x Sennheiser 58x headphones? I'm quite unsure if standard AMPs and Mic pre-amps are interchangable, and that is why I am consulting this lovely form for advice.

If you have any recommendations for amps which are cheap if the mentioned pre-amp above is not fit, I'll happily look into it.

I heard a Schiit tower of a DAC and Amp is good, but I just want to know if my current mic pre-amp will be fit!

Thanks!

April 21, 2021

I'm not familiar with that particular device; it would probably be fine, though you may not be getting the best out of those headphones. The 58X has an impedance of 150 ohms, which is higher than a more basic pair of headphones (my Audioquest NightOwl has an impedance of only 25 ohms and are quite easy to drive, just using a headphone jack in a MacBook for example). If you have the headphones already, try it with your amp and see how they sound, see how high you have to turn up the volume, etc. A Schiit stack (Modi 3/Magni 3) is a good place to start for something "audiophile"-oriented. There are also some good options from JDS Labs or iFi.

Skiiwee29 · April 21, 2021

<-- <Moved to Audio -->

H713 · April 21, 2021

11 hours ago, Fusioncore21 said:

Hi there!

As I have some time to kill, I'm deciding to get into the rabbit hole of headphones, DACs and AMPs.

My main question I have is this:

Will my Behringer UMC22 Microphone Pre-Amp's headphone out be powerful enough to run some Drop x Sennheiser 58x headphones? I'm quite unsure if standard AMPs and Mic pre-amps are interchangable, and that is why I am consulting this lovely form for advice.

If you have any recommendations for amps which are cheap if the mentioned pre-amp above is not fit, I'll happily look into it.

I heard a Schiit tower of a DAC and Amp is good, but I just want to know if my current mic pre-amp will be fit!

Thanks!

The UMC22 is an audio interface (and not a high-end one either), which combines a whole bunch of stuff into one box. It has a microphone preamplifier (with all the crap that goes with a mic preamp) and an ADC, plus a DAC, line output amplifier and a headphone amplifier. There's also usually some way to route the output from the microphone preamplifier back to the line outputs (and the headphone amplifier) for direct monitoring.

The headphone amplifiers in these audio interfaces are 'meh'. They can work pretty well for sensitive headphones, but they don't deliver a lot of power. Try it and see if you like it. Some people listen at much higher levels than others.

For example, with reasonably sensitive headphones (Grados) I did a blind comparison between the headphone amps in the Scarlett 2i2, a Crest XR20 mixing console and a Sony MXP-2900 mixing console. I compared these to a "reference" headphone amp that I cobbled together using my test board for the OPA1656 and powered by an HP power supply. The only real loser was the amp in the MXP-2900, because the 1/f noise was fairly noticeable. This was later verified to be noise from the op-amp itself. I could (with effort) pick out differences between the rest, but I'd have a hell of a time deciding which ones were better or worse.

The amp in most audio interfaces is about $4, $3 of which is spent on the pot, knob and 1/4" jack. The headphone amp in the Crest console probably cost about $6 since it uses a power op-amp. The headphone amp in the MXP-2900 probably cost $25, since it uses a $20 pot and $3 knob. My reference headphone amp test jig cost about $10 if I exclude the $500 HP power supply.

The point I'm trying to make is that one low-noise, low-distortion design (with reasonably low output impedance) and sufficient power will sound almost the same as another. These days, this is extremely cheap to build. The main difference is power. If you can't hear distortion on transients, even at levels higher than you normally listen at, don't worry about it. The position of the volume knob is largely irrelevant in this regard since it controls gain. Gain != power.

Now, if you want the Schiit stack because it looks nice, or because you like the feel of the volume knob or because you're a gear nut who wants to try it, those are all perfectly tangible and valid reasons to buy one.

rice guru · April 21, 2021

The 58x doesn't need much power at all and the ummc 22 should have enough power to drive it

Fusioncore21 · April 21, 2021

8 hours ago, H713 said:

The UMC22 is an audio interface (and not a high-end one either), which combines a whole bunch of stuff into one box. It has a microphone preamplifier (with all the crap that goes with a mic preamp) and an ADC, plus a DAC, line output amplifier and a headphone amplifier. There's also usually some way to route the output from the microphone preamplifier back to the line outputs (and the headphone amplifier) for direct monitoring.

The headphone amplifiers in these audio interfaces are 'meh'. They can work pretty well for sensitive headphones, but they don't deliver a lot of power. Try it and see if you like it. Some people listen at much higher levels than others.

For example, with reasonably sensitive headphones (Grados) I did a blind comparison between the headphone amps in the Scarlett 2i2, a Crest XR20 mixing console and a Sony MXP-2900 mixing console. I compared these to a "reference" headphone amp that I cobbled together using my test board for the OPA1656 and powered by an HP power supply. The only real loser was the amp in the MXP-2900, because the 1/f noise was fairly noticeable. This was later verified to be noise from the op-amp itself. I could (with effort) pick out differences between the rest, but I'd have a hell of a time deciding which ones were better or worse.

The amp in most audio interfaces is about $4, $3 of which is spent on the pot, knob and 1/4" jack. The headphone amp in the Crest console probably cost about $6 since it uses a power op-amp. The headphone amp in the MXP-2900 probably cost $25, since it uses a $20 pot and $3 knob. My reference headphone amp test jig cost about $10 if I exclude the $500 HP power supply.

The point I'm trying to make is that one low-noise, low-distortion design (with reasonably low output impedance) and sufficient power will sound almost the same as another. These days, this is extremely cheap to build. The main difference is power. If you can't hear distortion on transients, even at levels higher than you normally listen at, don't worry about it. The position of the volume knob is largely irrelevant in this regard since it controls gain. Gain != power.

Now, if you want the Schiit stack because it looks nice, or because you like the feel of the volume knob or because you're a gear nut who wants to try it, those are all perfectly tangible and valid reasons to buy one.

Hmm, alright.

I should mention I live in the UK, and Schiit doesn't have an official EU store so if I wanted a Schiit stack I'd be having to pay a lot more on customs fees. I've watched a few videos on some good DAC/Amps to pair with the 58x's and one I saw quite a bit was the Fosi Audio Q4's, which are quite cheap as well.

I'm happy to pay for customs fees for the 58x's, as they're also from the US, but I don't want to keep adding more and more money into it.

Thanks for the help regardless!