Google fires prominent AI ethicist Timnit Gebru

[wanderingfool2]

4 hours ago, igormp said:

Instead what they did was to fire her. If they accepted her resignation, then they would ask her for a final date (which she also mentioned). That simple detail, along with the instant block of all her accounts doesn't sounds like a regular resignation from the employee's part.

Instant blocking of all accounts and essentially "showing the door" is quite a common practice (but still paying out for the remainder of the time).  Especially if you suspect the employee might try tactics like sabotage or things such as sending out inflammatory emails,

 

Again, it also gets back to constructive quitting.  You can't just go to your employer and say "Do this or I quit" and then act as though you are innocent when they decide to choose the I quit option.  It's also not clear whether or not they asked "final dates" or if she actually mentioned a date...but again...she set herself up by creating an ultimatum.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:25 PM, AluminiumTech said:

At least one employee is claiming she was fired for releasing a paper that says Google's business model and algorithms are unethical.

Well, if I found out that the main result of the research conducted by the PhD I hired is "sugar is sweet", I'd fire her too.

[CarlBar]

On 12/9/2020 at 5:02 AM, wanderingfool2 said:

Again, it also gets back to constructive quitting.  You can't just go to your employer and say "Do this or I quit" and then act as though you are innocent when they decide to choose the I quit option.  It's also not clear whether or not they asked "final dates" or if she actually mentioned a date...but again...she set herself up by creating an ultimatum.

 

Actually legally it sounds like you can. 

Constructive quitting apparently requires that you voluntarily cease working before your set last day, (or over a period of time without a set last day). That did not apparently happen as no last day was set and at no point did she cease working for google before they cut her off.

 

Resignation requires a set last day and requires that the company employee and pay you up to that day. If they cut you off before then it's no longer a resignation.

[wanderingfool2]

4 hours ago, CarlBar said:

Constructive quitting apparently requires that you voluntarily cease working before your set last day, (or over a period of time without a set last day). That did not apparently happen as no last day was set and at no point did she cease working for google before they cut her off.

Well a few things.  She is claiming she didn't resign, but again she also admits to making conditions and working on a last day...so for all we know she could have been more specific in the email she had sent.

 

I didn't see anywhere when I read that section of law that mentions anything about setting a date or anything....again I quoted the section f earlier.  It is pretty much stating that a "firing" becomes a voluntary quitting (ie resignation) if the employee through actions makes gives them no other reasonable alternative.

 

[CarlBar]

10 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Well a few things.  She is claiming she didn't resign, but again she also admits to making conditions and working on a last day...so for all we know she could have been more specific in the email she had sent.

 

I didn't see anywhere when I read that section of law that mentions anything about setting a date or anything....again I quoted the section f earlier.  It is pretty much stating that a "firing" becomes a voluntary quitting (ie resignation) if the employee through actions makes gives them no other reasonable alternative.

 

 

See the case example that was brought up earlier, someone announced their intent to resign but didn't specify a last day and was cutoff immediately. Was ruled firing not constructive quitting.

[wanderingfool2]

2 hours ago, CarlBar said:

See the case example that was brought up earlier, someone announced their intent to resign but didn't specify a last day and was cutoff immediately. Was ruled firing not constructive quitting.

I've already gone over that argument though.  The case is wildly different from what happened here.  It was that they announced their resignation effective in Nov, and the company decided to only pay, and let them work until Oct.  If the employer had paid her up until the final date (even if she wasn't physically working there), then she wouldn't have had the case.

 

The employee in that case also didn't make her continued working contingent on conditions, she in the literal sense resigned. (in the particular case that was brought up earlier).

Here is the quoted decision

Quote

In Appeals Board Decision No. P-B-27 the claimant, on December 21, notified her employer that she intended to leave her job at the end of the month, but was not permitted to work past December 26.  However, although the claimant stopped working prior to the effective date of her resignation, the employer continued her wages through the effective date of her resignation.  We reasoned that the claimant in effect was paid wages for not working and suffered no loss by the action of the employer in accelerating the last day of work.

 

In the instant case the claimant was not permitted to work to the effective date of her resignation and the employer did not pay the claimant her wages through that date.  The claimant did suffer a loss by the action of the employer in accelerating the last day of work.

The first paragraph showing effectively that if an employee was paid up correctly it wouldn't count as a firing.  On top of that, again this isn't speaking about constructive quitting, but rather just general resignation.

 

Timnit made an ultimatum, and literally was accusing management in an internal email...I think that quite justly would fit into "constructive quitting".