best router/modem setup

[Gingzilla]

my current gateway is crap, I have to reset it any time I want to switch from my wired PC to any wifi device. answer from the manufacturer is to factory reset the gateway which I have to do at least twice a week. I'd prefer to do a separate modem and router. I'm running coax internet at 100mb/s, my PC is going to remain wired and I only have a few devices I would connect via wifi. I live in an apartment complex so the 2.4 channel is jam packed so I want 2.4Ghz and 5ghz. Any help with this would be awesome since I haven't had to buy this kind of hardware in a long time.

[Lurick]

Does your ISP allow you to use a different gateway than what's provided?

What kind of internet are we talking? DSL, Fiber, Coax, Wireless, etc.?

[Oshino Shinobu]

Sounds like the real issue is the AP in the router combo unit rather than an issue with the modem or router parts specifically. 

 

You might want to consider buying a dedicated AP and disabling WiFi on the router combo unit and see if you still get issues. I'd be recommending a dedicated AP anyway, so could try it before investing in a modem and router too. 

 

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

Does your ISP allow you to use a different gateway than what's provided?

What kind of internet are we talking? DSL, Fiber, Coax, Wireless, etc.?

It's 100Mbps Coax. Can't help too much here as I'm not familiar with consumer Coax modems, UK's almost exclusively VDSL at this point, at least where I've lived. 

[Lurick]

Just now, Oshino Shinobu said:

Sounds like the real issue is the AP in the router combo unit rather than an issue with the modem or router parts specifically. 

 

You might want to consider buying a dedicated AP and disabling WiFi on the router combo unit and see if you still get issues. I'd be recommending a dedicated AP anyway, so could try it before investing in a modem and router too. 

 

It's 100Mbps Coax. Can't help too much here as I'm not familiar with consumer Coax modems, UK's almost exclusively VDSL at this point, at least where I've lived. 

Ah, I completely misread that as just 100Mbps to the PC, thanks

[Donut417]

8 minutes ago, Gingzilla said:

my current gateway is crap, I have to reset it any time I want to switch from my wired PC to any wifi device. answer from the manufacturer is to factory reset the gateway which I have to do at least twice a week. I'd prefer to do a separate modem and router. I'm running coax internet at 100mb/s, my PC is going to remain wired and I only have a few devices I would connect via wifi. I live in an apartment complex so the 2.4 channel is jam packed so I want 2.4Ghz and 5ghz. Any help with this would be awesome since I haven't had to buy this kind of hardware in a long time.

You need to check with your ISP about customer owned modems. They might have a list of compatible ones. 

 

For cable modems the SB6183, CM500, CM600, or any Docsis 3.1 modem is pretty much good. Router wise is going to be more complicated, there are many models to choose from. I personally run a Synology RT2600AC, but its a $200 router. Cable modem wise I run a SB6141, but its only 8x4 and only supports speeds of around 200 ish Mbps, at least on the Comcast network. So I would suggest a 16x4, 24x8, or a Docsis 3.1 modem, this way you have some growing room. 

[heimdali]

Get an EdgeRouter and an MSM422 with PSU or 48V PoE-injector.  It's also a good idea to get the MSM with its mounting plate rather than without.  It works without but if you want to mount it somewere, you'll have a hard time doing that without the plate.

 

[Falcon1986]

55 minutes ago, heimdali said:

Get an EdgeRouter and an MSM422 with PSU or 48V PoE-injector.  It's also a good idea to get the MSM with its mounting plate rather than without.  It works without but if you want to mount it somewere, you'll have a hard time doing that without the plate.

I like the EdgeRouter, too, but the OP still has some more information to provide.

 

As for your AP recommendation, that HPE unit is overpriced and dated for what it provides. Additionally, it's wireless data rates max out at 54Mbps on 802.11n, thereby halving the full speed that a client can achieve on his 100Mbps internet connection.

[heimdali]

I have 3 of these access points and I payed EUR 15 each on ebay, with mounting plate.  They are dual radio with 2.4 and 5GHz and allow max 300Mbit.

 

I needed only two of them because the range is good.  Their current uptime is 227 days 6 hours 39 minutes.  There were zero issues with them, and I could even get firmware from HP when I was setting them up.

 

Can you show me an access point that has at least the same quality with comparable features that costs under EUR 30?

 

The OP says he has an internet connection with 100Mbit, prefers 5GHz, keeps his computer wired, has only a few wireless devices and didn't mention a requirement to transfers large amounts of data to or from wireless devices.  An access point that provides up to 300Mbit should be fine for that.

 

If you wanted to buy them new, they were over $500.  I'm not sure if you can still get new ones.  If I wanted to buy a new access point, I'd buy Ubiquity.

 

But I don't know if you can manage their APs without their management software.  So you either have to run Debian somewhere to run their software on or buy what they call a "cloud key" for another EUR 65 in addition to the AP which costs at least EUR 60.

 

That means about EUR 150 for an ERLite with an MSM422 vs. about EUR 250 for an ERLite with access point with could key.  So what's better for the OP?

 

He could buy an ER4 for about EUR 200 instead plus the other things and end up paying like EUR 350, but he didn't mention any requirement for VPN connections, so the ERLite is fine ...

 

I don't know about cable modems.

 

[Falcon1986]

@heimdali

 

I don't doubt that the MSM422 works well, but in 2020, it would be better to use at least WiFi 5-compatible gear than WiFi 4, even if you could purchase them used/inexpensive from eBay.

 

While wireless-N can achieve 300Mbps, it has to do so with channel bonding especially if doing so on 2.4GHz. This means wider channels which will overlap/interfere with an already-crowded spectrum. Furthermore, real-world speed is always going to be significantly less than advertised speeds.

 

As for the Ubiquiti stuff, a simple EdgeRouter-X should work for the needs of any home. There is no need to step up higher than that. Port expansion can be done with inexpensive unmanaged switches. As for APs, there's a wide selection for different needs/price points.

 

And finally: Yes, UniFi gear must be configured through the UniFi Controller (does not apply to non-UniFi alternatives), but you don't need a Cloud Key. The management can be done through the phone app, a local installation on a PC/RPi connected to the network, or remotely from the cloud.

[heimdali]

Well, who would put up with a cell phone for doing anything like that?  Managing anything through something in the cloud is entirely out of the question.  So you need to have a computer running for the one access point, or their cloud key.  That's going to lengths just to manage one or two access points.

 

If wider channels are required, that's probably not good for the OP since he says there's already lots of wireless around.  Do all devices support more recent standards?  And which up-to-date access point that doesn't require external management would you recommend?

 

[Falcon1986]

1 hour ago, heimdali said:

Well, who would put up with a cell phone for doing anything like that?  Managing anything through something in the cloud is entirely out of the question.

It's not for everyone, obviously. I was simply responding to your earlier statement.

 

1 hour ago, heimdali said:

So you need to have a computer running for the one access point, or their cloud key.  That's going to lengths just to manage one or two access points.

If running from a computer, it only needs to be run for configuration and firmware updates. The CK provides an always-on solution. Cloud management allows for remote/multisite control.

 

1 hour ago, heimdali said:

If wider channels are required, that's probably not good for the OP since he says there's already lots of wireless around.

Agreed, especially on 2.4GHz. However, 5GHz allows for wider channels at higher potential speeds if there isn't overlap with other 5GHz broadcasts.

 

1 hour ago, heimdali said:

Do all devices support more recent standards?  And which up-to-date access point that doesn't require external management would you recommend?

Wireless AC (WiFi 5) has had a lot of time to mature. Wireless AX (WiFi 6) is rolling out now.

 

The Ubiquiti airCube-AC comes to mind.

 

Let's keep the thread focused on the OP's question. We can continue elsewhere. S/he still has to figure out the modem.

[heimdali]

Well, like I said, I don't know about cable modems.  The airCube-AC seems like it's worth checking out.  Does it support wireless devices that can do only max 54Mbit?  I have at least one of those, and it isn't even that old.

 

[Lurick]

1 hour ago, heimdali said:

Well, like I said, I don't know about cable modems.  The airCube-AC seems like it's worth checking out.  Does it support wireless devices that can do only max 54Mbit?  I have at least one of those, and it isn't even that old.

 

Honestly I'm surprised (to a slight extent) that 802.11g devices are still rolling out but for some cheaper or lower end IoT stuff I can see it because every penny saved is more profit when turning out thousands of them. I haven't see any AP drop support for 802.11b or g devices but they are definitely getting up there in terms of age and are considered to be legacy by newer APs at this point.

 

As for OP, I see they live in Raleigh so I'm pretty confident they're on Spectrum's internet since they mention Coax. In that case a SB6183 if they can find it would be great but anything that's not on the Puma6 chipset should be fine. If they want to go up in speed then maybe the SB8200 or Netgear equivalent would be good to last them for a while since that would put them on DOCSIS 3.1

[Donut417]

8 minutes ago, Lurick said:

haven't see any AP drop support for 802.11b or g devices but they are definitely getting up there in terms of age and are considered to be legacy by newer APs at this point.

Most of the issue has been on the client side with wireless B+G. Specifically from a security standpoint as many older B+G devices didn't support WPA2. Most devices I have seen are wireless N at least. Generally single band N, but still new enough and have support for WPA2. I cant 100% remember, but I thought I came across a router that didn't support Wireless B or G. I cant recall the model. 

[thedangerine]

I have an asus blue cave AC2600, things pretty sweet, looks nice, good range, dual band, etc. I really like management site asus has for it, pretty simple yet powerful. They also have a pretty good app, plus in the future if needed you could add another router in their AI Mesh network stuff which I did for where I live and it works pretty well

[Gingzilla]

sorry for the silence, the gateway is private (not provided by the service provider). I do have spectrum which is why I'm running off of COAX unfortunately. No large data transfer over WiFi just an XBOX one, phone, switch, and on rare occasions my laptop. Living room and bedroom are only separated by one 1 wall max so I don't believe I need an AP as well as the router (unless I'm misunderstanding that). So realistically my wireless items would run on the 5ghz channel and guests would run on the 2.4ghz channel. Spectrum stated that they have compatibility for any COAX modem and seperate router you want to run, not sure how much I trust that but lets run with that lol

[Donut417]

13 minutes ago, Gingzilla said:

not sure how much I trust that but lets run with that lol

From what I have read, they do a piss poor job of supporting customer owned modems. I mean a customer owned modem should work, but if you have ANY issues they will NOT lift a finger to help. 

[Gingzilla]

2 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

From what I have read, they do a piss poor job of supporting customer owned modems. I mean a customer owned modem should work, but if you have ANY issues they will NOT lift a finger to help. 

yeah thats what they already do no with my gateway haha