Media NAS

[ces160]

Hi Everyone, 

 

I need some help deciding what NAS I should purchase. 

 

I'll start by out lining the use case;

 

I currently have 2 x 2TB Segate (4TB) green drives in a secondary computer filled with BluRay rips of all my TV Shows and Movies (all legal - I just love dat 1080p). 

This PC is running Plex Home Server, serving my two LG Plex enabled TVs (Plex is awesome it will even give you a blerb about every movie and TV how episode).

I also have around 40 GB of pictures and 20 GB of music.

 

So...

1. The NAS will need the ability to use Plex and serve multiple clients with 1080p video simultaneously.

2. I would also like the ability to run backups of all "My Documents" (personal data, save games ect..). I would like it to copy all of the files, than only create a copy of a backed up file if the primary one is changed. E.g. I create a word doc and save it, one back up needs to be created, if I open that doc and edit it and save it over the original a second back up shall be created. So at the end I will have the doc on the primary PC and two back ups, one of the original and one of the edited version... I think this might be a little confusing... It was confusing me to write it.

3. Remote access to all of my files, I am currently using Google drive but I hate that I have to have a sync folder (taking up more storage having two copies of my files, one in its original location and one in the Google drive sync folder).

 

So that the use case. 

 

I have been looking online and have selected some hardware that I think is stable but i would like your freed back.

 

I like the QNAP TS-470 Pro 4 Bay High Performance NAS. i would fill it with 4 x 3TB WD Red drives and run it in RAID 5 for a total of 9TB of usable space.

 

What do you think?, Will this NAS and setup be suitable for my use case? 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

-ces160

 

[Vitalius]

That NAS setup would be fine for what you want to do in terms of streaming 1080p, and letting you backup and whatnot (I don't know anything about Plex or Remote Access compatibility, though I'm sure at that price there's some option available). 

However, there are cheaper options if you like to tinker. If you just want a silver bullet, and the cost of that NAS + Drives isn't too high (Total would be $1,510 or so for both, no taxes/shipping), then I say go for it. 

If you do indeed like to tinker, I would suggest looking into FreeNAS. It has Plex as a plugin, is a very beefy and optimized file system, and can be accessed Remotely if you know how to use SSH (it's not hard to learn) or something similar (FTP with Filezilla). 

I recently bought some old used server hardware for $175 for my FreeNAS system. It was two 4 core Xeons with 16GB of RAM and a server grade dual core motherboard. It was from trusted sellers (there are tons) and they had ebay's money back guarantee thingie, so I feel safe in my purchases. You can find many things like this on Ebay. 

This, plus those 4 drives you want, would be almost half the price of the 4 bay NAS (which, imo, is overkill in some areas for what you want such as having 4 LAN ports) at $850 or so (considering taxes/shipping). 

Another thing to consider is that the bigger the drives you get, the more you save per TB. So getting 3x4TB HDDs would allow you to upgrade in the future if you wanted to, and it would save you money per TB. Though upgrading could be hairy as you'd have to redo the RAID 5 since you can't just expand it. 

I personally don't like Parity RAID, but that's just me. I would go RAID 10 myself, although that costs you a bit of space (6TB vs 9TB), the performance gain with FreeNAS would be huge (it's effectively RAID 0 + 0 for Reads and RAID 0 for Writes). RAID 5 isn't known for it's performance, although I don't think you'd hit it's upper limit, I just don't like being close to bottlenecks myself. And streaming multiple 1080p video with backups could get very close to that. 

Overall, it's up to you. I'm just saying. The potential with FreeNAS both for upgrading later, and for power now is great. It just takes some learning (There's a WebGUI and many guides online for setting it up). 

[ces160]

That NAS setup would be fine for what you want to do in terms of streaming 1080p, and letting you backup and whatnot (I don't know anything about Plex or Remote Access compatibility, though I'm sure at that price there's some option available). 

However, there are cheaper options if you like to tinker. If you just want a silver bullet, and the cost of that NAS + Drives isn't too high (Total would be $1,510 or so for both, no taxes/shipping), then I say go for it. 

If you do indeed like to tinker, I would suggest looking into FreeNAS. It has Plex as a plugin, is a very beefy and optimized file system, and can be accessed Remotely if you know how to use SSH (it's not hard to learn) or something similar (FTP with Filezilla). 

I recently bought some old used server hardware for $175 for my FreeNAS system. It was two 4 core Xeons with 16GB of RAM and a server grade dual core motherboard. It was from trusted sellers (there are tons) and they had ebay's money back guarantee thingie, so I feel safe in my purchases. You can find many things like this on Ebay. 

This, plus those 4 drives you want, would be almost half the price of the 4 bay NAS (which, imo, is overkill in some areas for what you want such as having 4 LAN ports) at $850 or so (considering taxes/shipping). 

Another thing to consider is that the bigger the drives you get, the more you save per TB. So getting 3x4TB HDDs would allow you to upgrade in the future if you wanted to, and it would save you money per TB. Though upgrading could be hairy as you'd have to redo the RAID 5 since you can't just expand it. 

I personally don't like Parity RAID, but that's just me. I would go RAID 10 myself, although that costs you a bit of space (6TB vs 9TB), the performance gain with FreeNAS would be huge (it's effectively RAID 0 + 0 for Reads and RAID 0 for Writes). RAID 5 isn't known for it's performance, although I don't think you'd hit it's upper limit, I just don't like being close to bottlenecks myself. And streaming multiple 1080p video with backups could get very close to that. 

Overall, it's up to you. I'm just saying. The potential with FreeNAS both for upgrading later, and for power now is great. It just takes some learning (There's a WebGUI and many guides online for setting it up). 

Thanks for the info.

 

I was recently lucky enough to be given a enterprise grade server. It has 4 nodes, each with 2 x Xeon quad core processors (total of 8 processors), 32GB of DDR2 (total of 128 GB of ram). There are a couple of issues with it though;

1. Its in a 2U case

2. It sounds like a jet engine and I only have a small one bedroom apartment

3. The 4 mother boards in it are proprietary SuperMicro that wont fit in a normal consumer case and they wont work with a normal ATX PSU

So currently it is sitting under my bed collecting dust...

 

I was considering taking two of the CPUs and 32BG of the ram and building my own server.

 

With an INTEL S5000PSL Dual Socket 771 Motherboard and an Adaptec 6805 RAID Controller (this will give me 2 SAS = 8 SATA ports for future expansion) running win home server or win 7.

 

Do you think it would be better? And would FreeNAS be a better option for the OS?

[Vitalius]

Do you think it would be better? And would FreeNAS be a better option for the OS?

Absolutely. You are so lucky . 

Since you already have the RAM and CPUs, you could get a SuperMicro ATX motherboard such as the one I bought. That's the right socket and RAM slots too btw. Grab a cheap-o case and toss them in with some slow fans and the HDD's. 

FreeNAS is very robust. It's paid-for version, TrueNAS, is very similar to what Oracle uses to manage their datacenters. It's the type of OS you see in Enterprise stuff. 

For the things you need, Plex, high performance (multiple 1080p streams with backups), and Remote Access, it can cover all that easily. It also has quite a bit of compatibility with most enterprise grade stuff. 

I would just get this RAID controller. You don't want the controller for anything but more SATA ports. It shouldn't be doing RAID and it shouldn't be smart in any form. That's bad for FreeNAS (but it's not for Windows Home Server) because it will just get in it's way. Plus that one is cheaper. 

I would choose FreeNAS over WHS any day, but that's just because I know what I want, and I know a bit about FreeNAS. It can even be a Domain Controller and use Active Directory (not useful for home use, but those are the enterprise grade features). 

Like I said above, the only true negative to FreeNAS is learning how to use it, but to be honest, as I said, there are tons of guides. Plus, it's not that hard. It has a WebGUI where everything is straight forward except the advanced features. For example, RAID Z1 is FreeNAS' RAID 5 basically. Z2 is RAID 6 and Z3 is RAID 7. 

It's little things like that you have to learn. I would go back to 9.1.0 for a stable version of FreeNAS. There are some strange issues with 9.2.1 involving IP addresses that make it difficult to use, but 9.1.0 was great for me. 

 

It's really up to you though. WHS would be easier to just get running, but come at a performance and feature loss. It wouldn't properly use all that awesome hardware either, whereas FreeNAS requires you to learn some, but comes with epic features (for Free) and epic performance (If you set it up right). 

[ces160]

Absolutely. You are so lucky . 

Since you already have the RAM and CPUs, you could get a SuperMicro ATX motherboard such as the one I bought. That's the right socket and RAM slots too btw. Grab a cheap-o case and toss them in with some slow fans and the HDD's. 

FreeNAS is very robust. It's paid-for version, TrueNAS, is very similar to what Oracle uses to manage their datacenters. It's the type of OS you see in Enterprise stuff. 

For the things you need, Plex, high performance (multiple 1080p streams with backups), and Remote Access, it can cover all that easily. It also has quite a bit of compatibility with most enterprise grade stuff. 

I would just get this RAID controller. You don't want the controller for anything but more SATA ports. It shouldn't be doing RAID and it shouldn't be smart in any form. That's bad for FreeNAS (but it's not for Windows Home Server) because it will just get in it's way. Plus that one is cheaper. 

I would choose FreeNAS over WHS any day, but that's just because I know what I want, and I know a bit about FreeNAS. It can even be a Domain Controller and use Active Directory (not useful for home use, but those are the enterprise grade features). 

Like I said above, the only true negative to FreeNAS is learning how to use it, but to be honest, as I said, there are tons of guides. Plus, it's not that hard. It has a WebGUI where everything is straight forward except the advanced features. For example, RAID Z1 is FreeNAS' RAID 5 basically. Z2 is RAID 6 and Z3 is RAID 7. 

It's little things like that you have to learn. I would go back to 9.1.0 for a stable version of FreeNAS. There are some strange issues with 9.2.1 involving IP addresses that make it difficult to use, but 9.1.0 was great for me. 

 

It's really up to you though. WHS would be easier to just get running, but come at a performance and feature loss. It wouldn't properly use all that awesome hardware either, whereas FreeNAS requires you to learn some, but comes with epic features (for Free) and epic performance (If you set it up right). 

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. 

 

Can you please explain a little more about the RAID card you have selected and why it is a better option than the 6805?

 

I would like to be running RAID 5, is the SuperMicro card just a SATA expansion so it will be RAID 5 but software RAID?

 

Is the 6805 Hardware RAID and isn't that suppose to be faster?  

[Vitalius]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. 

 

Can you please explain a little more about the RAID card you have selected and why it is a better option than the 6805?

I'll put it as simply as I can. It's dumb. 

By dumb, I mean it does nothing to the drives. It doesn't actively compress anything, nor does it actively help decide where data should go in a RAID environment. You can flash the firmware on it to IR mode which basically makes it smart, but it's default mode is IT mode, which makes it dumb. 

It's basically just an HBA on steroids. HBA = Hub Bus Adapter which is basically a fancy way to say "More SATA ports". 

Now, you might say that's a negative thing about it, but it's a positive thing for FreeNAS. This is because the OS manages all those things itself. It compresses the data (the card doing it would be fruitless as double compression is pointless) and it manages which drives get what data. 

For a WHS, it being dumb is a bad thing, since WHS doesn't do any of that itself. It's best to leave FreeNAS to it's own devices and not interfere. If that RAID card were in IR mode (smart mode basically), FreeNAS wouldn't see each drive individually. It would only see the total storage space available. 

FreeNAS manages the SMART data as well to see when drives may die. If it can't see them, the RAID card is responsible for that. And FreeNAS can be set to run periodic tests and email you with the results. I don't believe there's a RAID card that can do that. 

In that case, you might say "Why would I want a RAID card then?" and the simple answer is because, if the controller on the motherboard fails, you won't lose connection to your Drives. The controller can fail while the motherboard itself is fine, for example. 

Plus you can always use that RAID card later (and put it in IR mode if you want) for other things. 

I've used that RAID controller, so I know it works correctly with FreeNAS. 

One other note about FreeNAS, it's best to put it on a USB device. The OS is read only aside from the config files, and is pulled to RAM upon boot, meaning it isn't being read from the USB at any time other than at boot. It won't let you partition the device it's on, so putting it on an SSD would be a waste. 

[ces160]

I'll put it as simply as I can. It's dumb. 

By dumb, I mean it does nothing to the drives. It doesn't actively compress anything, nor does it actively help decide where data should go in a RAID environment. You can flash the firmware on it to IR mode which basically makes it smart, but it's default mode is IT mode, which makes it dumb. 

It's basically just an HBA on steroids. HBA = Hub Bus Adapter which is basically a fancy way to say "More SATA ports". 

Now, you might say that's a negative thing about it, but it's a positive thing for FreeNAS. This is because the OS manages all those things itself. It compresses the data (the card doing it would be fruitless as double compression is pointless) and it manages which drives get what data. 

For a WHS, it being dumb is a bad thing, since WHS doesn't do any of that itself. It's best to leave FreeNAS to it's own devices and not interfere. If that RAID card were in IR mode (smart mode basically), FreeNAS wouldn't see each drive individually. It would only see the total storage space available. 

FreeNAS manages the SMART data as well to see when drives may die. If it can't see them, the RAID card is responsible for that. And FreeNAS can be set to run periodic tests and email you with the results. I don't believe there's a RAID card that can do that. 

In that case, you might say "Why would I want a RAID card then?" and the simple answer is because, if the controller on the motherboard fails, you won't lose connection to your Drives. The controller can fail while the motherboard itself is fine, for example. 

Plus you can always use that RAID card later (and put it in IR mode if you want) for other things. 

I've used that RAID controller, so I know it works correctly with FreeNAS. 

One other note about FreeNAS, it's best to put it on a USB device. The OS is read only aside from the config files, and is pulled to RAM upon boot, meaning it isn't being read from the USB at any time other than at boot. It won't let you partition the device it's on, so putting it on an SSD would be a waste. 

Thanks again. 

 

This explains it nicely. 

 

I have some research and price comparisons to do now.

 

As I live in Australia I might have to pay a premium for more exotic parts (shipping is a killer).

 

Thanks again.

[Vitalius]

Thanks again. 

 

This explains it nicely. 

 

I have some research and price comparisons to do now.

 

As I live in Australia I might have to pay a premium for more exotic parts (shipping is a killer).

 

Thanks again.

You're welcome.  

Glad I could help. I didn't realize you were in Australia. *sigh* I need to read people's locations more. Lol

Have fun, and good luck finding what you need. You want the RAID cards to be in IT mode to be "dumb". Many of them are flashable (so buy them in IR mode, then flash the firmware to IT mode), so check on that. 

Here's a list of RAID Controllers that work well with ZFS (FreeNAS' File System that gives it all those advanced features).

[d33g33]

I always recommend Synology. It does everything that you've stated no problems at all.

 

I use one personally, 4 friends and colleagues have purchased them after seeing how happy I was with mine, some even switching from a smaller QNAP to a larger Synology.

 

Their tech support is awesome.

 

I can't rate them high enough, if they are within your budget I don't know if you'll find better for the money in my opinion.

 

Let me know if you have any questions for me I'll try answer as best I can.

[nathanhd123]

Snip

Just out of interest what server hardware did you purchase?

[Vitalius]

Just out of interest what server hardware did you purchase?

Which I got for $175 including Taxes and Shipping. 

Links:

CPUs (Note: Not the ones I bought as those are gone/out of stock. This one is a little weaker [5450 VS my 5472's], but it's the cheapest one I could find).

RAM (Note: The one I bought from is over and out of stock. This is the cheapest one of similar reputation and model I could find.)

Motherboard (Note: 9 more available as of this posting.)

So yeah. I got a great deal. Don't forget Heatsinks. I forgot to buy them too (they are almost as much as the CPU's LOL, Newegg sells Socket J/LGA771 Heatsinks still, amazingly, for $31).

[ces160]

Which I got for $175 including Taxes and Shipping. 

Links:

CPUs (Note: Not the ones I bought as those are gone/out of stock. This one is a little weaker [5450 VS my 5472's], but it's the cheapest one I could find).

RAM (Note: The one I bought from is over and out of stock. This is the cheapest one of similar reputation and model I could find.)

Motherboard (Note: 9 more available as of this posting.)

So yeah. I got a great deal. Don't forget Heatsinks. I forgot to buy them too (they are almost as much as the CPU's LOL, Newegg sells Socket J/LGA771 Heatsinks still, amazingly, for $31).

In regards to the X7DWN+, what power supply are you using?

 

According to the manual this board requires more power connectors than what on a standard ATX Power supply. It requires a 24pin and an 8pin which is normal, but it also  requires an additional 4pin.

 

I can't find a PSU that has both the 8pin and a 4 pin.

 

Is the 4 pin required, will it work with just the 24 and 8? 

[Vitalius]

In regards to the X7DWN+, what power supply are you using?

 

According to the manual this board requires more power connectors than what on a standard ATX Power supply. It requires a 24pin and an 8pin which is normal, but it also  requires an additional 4pin.

 

I can't find a PSU that has both the 8pin and a 4 pin.

 

Is the 4 pin required, will it work with just the 24 and 8? 

It'll probably work depending on what CPUs you put in it. Obviously more power hungry CPUs will cause it to reboot or something randomly as it doesn't have enough power. 

I'm going to be using my NZXT 750w PSU in it, since I don't need it anymore. It is semi-modular. The non-modular cables have a 4+4-pin CPU connector and there is an additional 8-pin CPU connector option on the PSU:

Far Right. I know it's overkill, but I wouldn't be using it for anything else if I weren't using it for this. 

For weaker PSUs without 8-pin or 4-pin CPUs, you can use this. Most 8-pin CPU power connectors are split into two 4-pin CPU connectors (for backwards compatibility). So just use one of them and the 8-pin Molex -> CPU power connector adapter. 

[ces160]

It'll probably work depending on what CPUs you put in it. Obviously more power hungry CPUs will cause it to reboot or something randomly as it doesn't have enough power. 

I'm going to be using my NZXT 750w PSU in it, since I don't need it anymore. It is semi-modular. The non-modular cables have a 4+4-pin CPU connector and there is an additional 8-pin CPU connector option on the PSU:

Far Right. I know it's overkill, but I wouldn't be using it for anything else if I weren't using it for this. 

For weaker PSUs without 8-pin or 4-pin CPUs, you can use this. Most 8-pin CPU power connectors are split into two 4-pin CPU connectors (for backwards compatibility). So just use one of them and the 8-pin Molex -> CPU power connector adapter. 

Thanks for the info much appreciated.