RAM overclocking issues

[aBowlaPuddin]

I just built a new system, the CPU seems to overclock very well, 4.45 at 1.3v (see too high but stable) The RAM will run xmp, however adjusting any of the timings manually results in cpu debugging LED. I have to clear CMOS to boot. Didn't have any issues like this on my previous build.

 (Not a clean install of Windows 10, from  last build, x370 r5 2600. Updated chipset drivers)

 

R5 3600

B450 tomahawk (latest bios)

Corsair vengeance lpx 3200 cl16 (Samsung B-die)

Vega 56

Evga 700 watt bronze PSU

[Jurrunio]

Even if you increase the timings?

 

Also that's not Samsung B-die quality stuff even if it is Samsung B-die.

[gloop]

How did you verify that it's B-DIE? Thaiphoon read my Samsung C-Die kit as B-Die from a Vengeance LPX 3000MHz CL16 kit.

[aBowlaPuddin]

I didn't try increasing timings, timings at 16, 18, 18, 18, 38. Used thaiphoon, it said B-die. Didn't know it could be different?

[gloop]

6 minutes ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

I didn't try increasing timings, timings at 16, 18, 18, 18, 38. Used thaiphoon, it said B-die. Didn't know it could be different?

 

this is r/overclocking wiki's guide, sorry for the low res screenshot. what is the version on the label of your ram (eg. v 4.32)?

[aBowlaPuddin]

5 minutes ago, gloop said:

 

this is r/overclocking wiki's guide, sorry for the low res screenshot. what is the version on the label of your ram (eg. v 4.32)?

Ah, yes. It's v4.32

[aBowlaPuddin]

So if it's C-die is that my issue? Tried 2 different kits of the same ram. Same version, same results. 

[-rascal-]

16 minutes ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

Ah, yes. It's v4.32

 

5 minutes ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

So if it's C-die is that my issue? Tried 2 different kits of the same ram. Same version, same results. 

 

The v4.xx means they are Samsung B-Die, BUT seeing how they are binned for 3200 MHz CL16, they are not the great/good B-Dies.

We are talking lower grade B-Die.
You might be stuck with DDR4-3200 ... and *possibly* manually tightening the primary / secondary / tertiary timings.

 

Are you able to bump the DRAM frequency up to say... DDR4-3400 using the XMP timings + voltages?

 

[aBowlaPuddin]

2 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

 

The v4.xx means they are Samsung B-Die, BUT seeing how they are binned for 3200 MHZ CL16, they are not the great/good B-Dies.

We are talking lower grade B-Die.

 

Are you able to bump the DRAM frequency up to say... DDR4-3400 using the XMP timings + voltages?

 

No, I tried xmp with 3400 at 1.4v. with the same issue, just a cpu debug led.

[-rascal-]

5 minutes ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

No, I tried xmp with 3400 at 1.4v. with the same issue, just a cpu debug led.

 

Did you trying increasing the CPU/NB SoC voltage?

If you haven't try manually setting that to 1.10V, and try again.

That in combination of using 1.40V DRAM voltage.

 

Good overclocking guide (lots of reading involved).

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#tightening-timings

[aBowlaPuddin]

10 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

Did you trying increasing the CPU/NB SoC voltage?

If you haven't try manually setting that to 1.10V, and try again.

That in combination of using 1.40V DRAM voltage.

 

Good overclocking guide (lots of reading involved).

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md#tightening-timings

Same issue.  Would it be worth trying higher timings or would it be worth getting a better kit? Or just run xmp. Running membench on ryzen calculator takes about a second for everything percent. Was like 174 time for the standard 180%

[-rascal-]

8 minutes ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

Same issue.  Would it be worth trying higher timings or would it be worth getting a better kit? Or just run xmp. Running membench on ryzen calculator takes about a second for everything percent. Was like 174 time for the standard 180%

 

You can try loosening the timings to CL 17 or 18 (17 with gear down mode disabled in the BIOS).

But man, DDR4-3200 or DDR4-3400 with CL17 or CL18 is ... that is pretty bad.

 

DDR4-3200 CL16 is BETTER than DDR4-3400 CL18.

Quick approx, DDR4-3200  CL16 = DDR4-3400 CL17

 

If it doesn't work out, I'd try tightening your timings.

See if CL15 will work, or try reducing your other timings (e.g. rFAW, tWR, tRFC, tRAS, etc, etc).

[aBowlaPuddin]

1 minute ago, -rascal- said:

 

You can try loosening the timings to CL 17 or 18 (17 with gear down mode disabled in the BIOS).

But man, DDR4-3200 or DDR4-3400 with CL17 or CL18 is ... that is pretty bad.

That's what I was thinking. I had a 3000mhz kit from team group (hynix afr) it ran at 3200 cl 16. Figured this B-die would be at least as good as that. 

[aBowlaPuddin]

I tried tightening timings to cl15. Same issue, can't lower them at all it seems. 

[aBowlaPuddin]

I have 3600mhz cl 18, 19, 19, 19, 39 to boot, is that better than 3200 cl 16?

[-rascal-]

11 minutes ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

I have 3600mhz cl 18, 19, 19, 19, 39 to boot, is that better than 3200 cl 16?

 

DDR4-3600 CL18 is *slightly* better, but just barely.

DDR4-3200 CL16 = 10.67ns

DDR4-3600 CL 18 = 10ns

 

Your CPUs Infinity Fabric (CCX) will run at a faster frequency, which it will benefit.

Those are really loose DRAM timings, though.

 

Try it, and see if you notice any improvements in games, etc.

You can also run the DRAM Benchmark tool that's built into AIDA64.

(Should be available even on the free / trial version of AIDA64)

 

Just curious, do you still have that Team Group (Hynix) kit?

If you have time, try playing around with that kit instead, and see if you can get better results with THAT.

[aBowlaPuddin]

26 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

DDR4-3600 CL18 is *slightly* better, but just barely.

DDR4-3200 CL16 = 10.67ns

DDR4-3600 CL 18 = 10ns

 

Your CPUs Infinity Fabric (CCX) will run at a faster frequency, which it will benefit.

Those are really loose DRAM timings, though.

 

Try it, and see if you notice any improvements in games, etc.

You can also run the DRAM Benchmark tool that's built into AIDA64.

(Should be available even on the free / trial version of AIDA64)

 

Just curious, do you still have that Team Group (Hynix) kit?

If you have time, try playing around with that kit instead, and see if you can get better results with THAT.

I don't have that kit anymore unfortunately. I'll benchmark it with aida64. Will a kit at 3400 cl 16 give a lot of extra performance?

[-rascal-]

2 hours ago, aBowlaPuddin said:

I don't have that kit anymore unfortunately. I'll benchmark it with aida64. Will a kit at 3400 cl 16 give a lot of extra performance?

 

DDR4-3400 CL16 is definitely better than DDR4-3600 CL18 and DDR4-3200 CL16.

If you are going to to buy a new kit of RAM, and it costs a bit more too, then it's not worth it.

Stick with what you have, and save the money or something else that will give you a larger performance boost -- e.g. new GPU upgrade or something.

 

If you *REALLY* want to get good quality Samsung B-Die you'd have to look at kits like DDR4-3000 / 3200 / 3400, CL14.

Otherwise, DDR4-3600 CL16.

Or just stick with what you have...

 

I'm using two sets of G.Skill TridentZ memory, both DDR4-3000 CL14.

Able to overclock all 4x sticks to DDR4-3600 CL15.

But that took about 3 ~4 days of dial in the overclocking + timings...

I was tweaking a bunch different memory timings....and even eventually left some of them on Auto///

 

[aBowlaPuddin]

Well, I've been able to get it to run at 3200 cl 16 18 and 3600 18 20. Got the timings a little tighter (still seems pretty high) now just to decide if it's good enough or to purchase something else. Thanks for the help

[sedatedstewart]

got the same kit as mentioned above version 4.32 is c-die was confirmed on the reddit post above, mine is a 2133 downbin c-die has been currently running at 3200 cl 16-17-15-15-35 the 17 wont budge and cant change the cl to 15 as it auto changes back? also wouldn't post at higher frequencies with looser timings even at cl20 3400 ,typhoon had me thinking i won a b-die lol