26 Years Abandoned Computer Restoration (+ IBM Model M Keyboard)

[Shyzah]

Forgive me if this is the wrong section of the forum.

 

Not done with the restoration, but I am done with one of the IBM Model Ms as well as the Bolt Mod. 

I found two IBM Model Ms in a abandoned mental asylum. Also IBM 35SX computers. CRTs had wires cut and everything was supposed to be junked 26 years ago. Surprised I found them in the half burnt down building. Doing a full restoration. Computer fired up. Restored + bolt modded one of the Model Ms and got one more to go.

 

The cleaning process was very rigorous, more rigorous than the getting out of the place with a giant ass computer without getting spotted by po po (Lets just say, it aint my first time saving old tech). I wanted to make sure there wasn't a single germ left on this. It was basically a raccoon, rat, and coyote bathroom for 26 years. The animal piss also denigrated part of the traces which had to be painted in which was fun.

 

I'll upload the restoration on YouTube when I'm done editing. (The PC/CRT will be in another video).

 

The place I found it in was more than scary and pretty remote (Especially the part that was burnt to crisp). However, as soon as I saw old computers I hopped right thru that tiny window lmao.

Computer appears cleaner in the first photo because it was dusted off a little.

 

 

 

[Drama Lama]

Good luck restoring that computer most people would consider that as garbage 

 

[Shyzah]

Just and update.

The CRT has been successfully restored on <removed by staff>.

PC is basically done as well!

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by SansVarnic
Removed Links

[Bombastinator]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:07 PM, Drama Lama said:

Good luck restoring that computer most people would consider that as garbage 

 

Keyboard isn’t, unless it’s rubber dome.  Old IBMs often had buckling spring keyboards though which is sort of the holy grail of mechanical keyboard junkies.  They tend to have i/o issues though.  If one has a ps/2 connector one it is worth over a Benjamin.  Or was at one time.

[Bombastinator]

If you’re curious this sort of thing often goes in the “build log” section but it’s cool enough it could sit in multiple areas.

[Admiral Shark]

14 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Keyboard isn’t, unless it’s rubber dome.  Old IBMs often had buckling spring keyboards though which is sort of the holy grail of mechanical keyboard junkies.  They tend to have i/o issues though.  If one has a ps/2 connector one it is worth over a Benjamin.  Or was at one time.

By the looks of it, it's a buckling springs Model M. Rubber dome Model Ms (called "Quiet Touch", not to be confused with "Soft Touch" greased buckling springs Model Ms) in fact exist, but they are less numerous and don't come with two-part keycaps as shown in the pre-restoration photos.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, SharktasticA said:

By the looks of it, it's a buckling springs Model M. Rubber dome Model Ms (called "Quiet Touch", not to be confused with "Soft Touch" greased buckling springs Model Ms) in fact exist, but they are less numerous and don't come with two-part keycaps as shown in the pre-restoration photos.

The key feature is the PS/2 connection.  They’re too early for USB, but it is possible to convert ps/2 to usb fairly easily.   Older serial connections often don’t convert though.  The thing about buckling spring is it is effectively what a lot of mechanical keyboard junkies are actually trying to emulate sometimes without knowing it.  The phrase “chasing the thok” frequently means attempting to get a thing that bucking spring keyboards already have, and they last so frocken long a lot of 20-30 year old models actually still have it.

[Admiral Shark]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The key feature is the PS/2 connection.  They’re too early for USB, but it is possible to convert ps/2 to usb fairly easily.   Older serial connections often don’t convert though.  The thing about buckling spring is it is effectively what a lot of mechanical keyboard junkies are actually trying to emulate sometimes without knowing it.  The phrase “chasing the thok” frequently means attempting to get a thing that bucking spring keyboards already have, and they last so frocken long a lot of 20-30 year old models actually still have it.

Whilst Ms certainly popularised PS/2 back in the day (by virtue that most PC-compatible Ms were shipped with IBM PS/2 systems), I wouldn't rely on that as the sole identifier though or as a key feature of Model Ms. The Enhanced Keyboard 101/102 key Model Ms could come with XT/AT full-sized DIN and terminal DIN or "RJ-45" flavours too. Plus, the Quiet Touch Model Ms I mentioned (such as P/N 71G4644) also had PS/2.

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, SharktasticA said:

Whilst Ms certainly popularised PS/2 back in the day (by virtue that most PC-compatible Ms were shipped with IBM PS/2 systems), I wouldn't rely on that as the sole identifier though or as a key feature of Model Ms. The Enhanced Keyboard 101/102 key Model Ms could come with XT/AT full-sized DIN and terminal DIN or "RJ-45" flavours too. Plus, the Quiet Touch Model Ms I mentioned (such as P/N 71G4644) also had PS/2.

This is my point.  The din and the-45 stuff can’t be used at all on modern computers without major modding or expensive adaptors which often isn’t worth doing.  The combination of buckling spring keyboard and ps/2 connection wasn’t common.  As such theyre pretty rare.

[IBM_Brat]

On 2/21/2021 at 3:51 PM, Bombastinator said:

This is my point.  The din and the-45 stuff can’t be used at all on modern computers without major modding or expensive adaptors which often isn’t worth doing.  The combination of buckling spring keyboard and ps/2 connection wasn’t common.  As such theyre pretty rare.

 

Not sure I understand or agree with your above statement, but I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.  Pretty sure there were a lot of IBM systems (PS/2 family specifically) sold in the mid-late 80's and early 90's that included the Model M keyboard.  But it may be my narrow experience clouding my knowledge as to rarity.

 

I have 6 keyboards (the "RJ-45" mentioned) spanning 1988 to 1993.  One of the two 1988 built models is currently connected to a Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 mobo.  Works fine on an older GA-Z87X-UD3H mobo.  But I haven't tried it on my latest ASUS Z390-E Gaming mobo, which I'll do now...

 

Works fine in the single Combo PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse port.

 

So my question I guess is which modern systems with PS/2 ports don't work with these keyboards and what mods/expensive adaptors do you refer to?  I know someone online converted one with bluetooth.  And some years ago I bought a USB to PS/2 adaptor thinking future proofing when it looked like the manufacturers were about to drop the PS/2 port.  Something like this $7.97 adapter: https://www.amazon.ca/Usb-Ps2-Adapter-1xps2-Usb1-1/dp/B000JPCAL8

 

Don't mean to derail the thread (hope I didn't necro it either), just curious what systems have problems?

 

 

 

To the OP, is that an 8515 display by chance?  There were these plastic tools (almost shaped like the expansion plates on cases but narrowed to a point like an Xacto blade) that you inserted into slots on the top to release the crt shroud, if I recall correctly.  Anyhow good job on the cleanup!

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, IBM_Brat said:

 

Not sure I understand or agree with your above statement, but I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.  Pretty sure there were a lot of IBM systems (PS/2 family specifically) sold in the mid-late 80's and early 90's that included the Model M keyboard.  But it may be my narrow experience clouding my knowledge as to rarity.

 

I have 6 keyboards (the "RJ-45" mentioned) spanning 1988 to 1993.  One of the two 1988 built models is currently connected to a Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 mobo.  Works fine on an older GA-Z87X-UD3H mobo.  But I haven't tried it on my latest ASUS Z390-E Gaming mobo, which I'll do now...

 

Works fine in the single Combo PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse port.

 

So my question I guess is which modern systems with PS/2 ports don't work with these keyboards and what mods/expensive adaptors do you refer to?  I know someone online converted one with bluetooth.  And some years ago I bought a USB to PS/2 adaptor thinking future proofing when it looked like the manufacturers were about to drop the PS/2 port.  Something like this $7.97 adapter: https://www.amazon.ca/Usb-Ps2-Adapter-1xps2-Usb1-1/dp/B000JPCAL8

 

Don't mean to derail the thread (hope I didn't necro it either), just curious what systems have problems?

 

 

 

To the OP, is that an 8515 display by chance?  There were these plastic tools (almost shaped like the expansion plates on cases but narrowed to a point like an Xacto blade) that you inserted into slots on the top to release the crt shroud, if I recall correctly.  Anyhow good job on the cleanup!

The issue is the port connection.  For an RJ-45 you need the correct adapter.  They’re hard to find and often expensive.  You’ve apparently got one.  Good for you.  There are still motherboards currently made with ps/2 ports.  So if you’ve got one of those motherboards and a keyboard with a ps/2 plug, you don’t need an adaptor at all.  If you can get an adaptor cheap, you can hook it to one of those keyboards and the thing is as good as a modern mechanical keyboard.  Arguably better to some because buckling spring keyboards aren’t made any more. 

[IBM_Brat]

37 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The issue is the port connection.  For an RJ-45 you need the correct adapter.  They’re hard to find and often expensive.  You’ve apparently got one.  Good for you.  There are still motherboards currently made with ps/2 ports.  So if you’ve got one of those motherboards and a keyboard with a ps/2 plug, you don’t need an adaptor at all.  If you can get an adaptor cheap, you can hook it to one of those keyboards and the thing is as good as a modern mechanical keyboard.  Arguably better to some because buckling spring keyboards aren’t made any more. 

 

So, these cables?

Ok, thanks for clarifying.  Didn't realize most of the keyboards lost their attaching PS/2 cable.  There's only 6 wires, maybe solder 3 pairs from a Cat 5 cable to a PS/2 plug and...

 

PS/2 to AMP SDL they're called?  I see some ebay sales for about $25 US.  Something like this: https://www.te.com/global-en/product-1-520424-2.html

[Admiral Shark]

On 2/21/2021 at 8:51 PM, Bombastinator said:

This is my point.  The din and the-45 stuff can’t be used at all on modern computers without major modding or expensive adaptors which often isn’t worth doing.  The combination of buckling spring keyboard and ps/2 connection wasn’t common.  As such theyre pretty rare.

Sorry I missed this. If you already have a soldering iron, converting a terminal M could be done around or less than £10 (for a Pro Micro microcontroller, some dupont wires, and a socket).

 

Taking the standard US ANSI PS/2 Model M, P/N 1391401, as an example - if the serial numbers are any indication, more than 10 million were produced. Counting P/Ns 52G9658, 92G7453 and 42H1292 that replaced 1391401,  then the PS/2 variants of the Model M1, M2, M5-1, M5-2, M13 and M15, and finally any regional variants of all those, the pool only gets bigger. Likely, a lot have been lost and scrapped over the years, but not more so than terminal keyboards. Home users are more likely to resell old keyboards than businesses shedding their old terminal systems. I'm reasonably confident PS/2 Model Ms are not more rare than terminal Ms.

17 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Arguably better to some because buckling spring keyboards aren’t made any more. 

Unicomp still makes Model Ms with buckling springs. In fact, they're even releasing new variants.

[IBM_Brat]

6 hours ago, SharktasticA said:

Sorry I missed this. If you already have a soldering iron, converting a terminal M could be done around or less than £10 (for a Pro Micro microcontroller, some dupont wires, and a socket).

 

Taking the standard US ANSI PS/2 Model M, P/N 1391401, as an example - if the serial numbers are any indication, more than 10 million were produced. Counting P/Ns 52G9658, 92G7453 and 42H1292 that replaced 1391401,  then the PS/2 variants of the Model M1, M2, M5-1, M5-2, M13 and M15, and finally any regional variants of all those, the pool only gets bigger. Likely, a lot have been lost and scrapped over the years, but not more so than terminal keyboards. Home users are more likely to resell old keyboards than businesses shedding their old terminal systems. I'm reasonably confident PS/2 Model Ms are not more rare than terminal Ms.

Unicomp still makes Model Ms with buckling springs. In fact, they're even releasing new variants.

I think I get it now. 

 

He's (and you) talking about converting actual 3270 terminal keyboards (or whatever non SDL-PS/2 keyboards IBM made) for use with modern motherboards and the "RJ-45" like this: https://geekness.eu/content/getting-terminal-ibm-model-m-work-ps2

 

I did not know that was a "thing"...thank you.

[Admiral Shark]

13 hours ago, IBM_Brat said:

I think I get it now. 

 

He's (and you) talking about converting actual 3270 terminal keyboards (or whatever non SDL-PS/2 keyboards IBM made) for use with modern motherboards and the "RJ-45" like this: https://geekness.eu/content/getting-terminal-ibm-model-m-work-ps2

 

I did not know that was a "thing"...thank you.

No problem!

 

That's indeed the simplest way to do it. However, many in the vintage keyboard community usually take the extra step of making an 'active' converter with a Pro Micro (or Teensy 2.0) since it can make the keyboard much more useful. For example, you can program your own layouts, layers, and macros in a manner independent from the host computer so all your customisation is portable across machine and OS. And, it will cover any possible scenario of a system or program somehow not supporting Set 3 (IBM's terminal scancode set). The most well known firmwire in the vintage community is probably still Soarer's Converter, which whilst it hasn't been updated since 2013, it still does the job for the most part. But, QMK with 'ibm_terminal' is an actively developed alternative you should probably also look into if you pursue an active converter.

[Shyzah]

Update! It's been complete for some time. Will post photos at the end of this post.

As for the previous replies, I completely missed the posts about the Model M.

I've been using the Model M as a daily since it was restored and I love it. 
It's been attached to my sleeper with an MSI mobo thru the PS/2 slot with no problems
I purchased a AT cable for the Model M as I needed it to work some 486 systems.

 

I sold off the other Model M after bolt mod + new missing key caps for a little under $300 on eBay.

 

IBM 35sx After Restoration by Shyzah, on Flickr

 

I was able to find an original power button on eBay.

 

Staff! Anyway this could be moved to "Build Log" thread as Bombastinatior recommended??