Any upcoming ultralight 17 inch gaming laptops?

[crystal6tak]

I find it bizarre there are several GTX 1650 level 15 inch laptops at 1.6kg. (Zenbook 15, MSI Prestige, etc), with the rest being around 1.8kg

 

Yet, the lightest 17 inch laptop is the 2.2kg MSI GF75, with the rest being 2.5-2.8kg

 

Considering going from LG Gram 15 -> LG Gram 17 is only a 235 gram increase in weight. (Their internals are nearly identical), why aren't there any 17 inch gaming laptops under 2kg?

 

There's shouldn't be any hardware limitations holding manufacturers back from making 17 inch gaming laptops with 1650-1660 ti level GPU at 1.8-1.9kg while still maintaining decent cooling (given 15 inch can handle it already)

 

Anyone know if there are upcoming laptops that fits this description? I just want an ultra portable 17 inch workstation (battery life can be garbage, it's going to be plugged in anways)

[Enderman]

XPS17 is 2.1kg

 

"gaming" laptops are called gaming laptops because they are marketed to gamers who use it for gaming and want the best cooling and performance regardless of weight or size.

 

If you want a portable workstation then you should be looking for workstation or compact laptops, not "gaming" laptops.

[5x5]

The Asus A17 may interest you. Unlike the XPS 17, it has good cooling. The new XPS models sadly overheat...

[crystal6tak]

10 minutes ago, Enderman said:

XPS17 is 2.1kg

 

"gaming" laptops are called gaming laptops because they are marketed to gamers who use it for gaming and want the best cooling and performance regardless of weight or size.

 

If you want a portable workstation then you should be looking for workstation or compact laptops, not "gaming" laptops.

ooOOooo 2.1kg, pretty good.

 

Unfortunately any laptop with mid-high tier GPU is labeled "gaming" laptop. Workstation laptop tends to refer to laptops with quadros which isn't what I'm looking for.

 

7 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

The Asus A17 may interest you. Unlike the XPS 17, it has good cooling. The new XPS models sadly overheat...

Link? Googling it gives me the ASUS TUF Gaming A17 which weighs a whopping 2.6kg

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, crystal6tak said:

ooOOooo 2.1kg, pretty good.

 

Unfortunately any laptop with mid-high tier GPU is labeled "gaming" laptop. Workstation laptop tends to refer to laptops with quadros which isn't what I'm looking for.

 

Link? Googling it gives me the ASUS TUF Gaming A17 which weighs a whopping 2.6kg

You won't find a thin 17" gaming laptop that doesn't melt and is under 2.5kg

[crystal6tak]

Just now, 5x5 said:

You won't find a thin 17" gaming laptop that doesn't melt and is under 2.5kg

All the 15 inch gaming laptops under 1.8kg would like to have a word with you...

[5x5]

Just now, crystal6tak said:

All the 15 inch gaming laptops under 1.8kg would like to have a word with you...

Which ones? The overloaded Razer's, the melting MSI models or the fucked layout Acer/Asus ones? You can't break the laws of physics. Even the Zephyrus M models have to go to insane lengths to cool themselves. Other such as the Razer Blade series end up with exploding batteries due to heat treatment and overloaded power delivery

[crystal6tak]

11 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Which ones? The overloaded Razer's, the melting MSI models or the fucked layout Acer/Asus ones? You can't break the laws of physics. Even the Zephyrus M models have to go to insane lengths to cool themselves. Other such as the Razer Blade series end up with exploding batteries due to heat treatment and overloaded power delivery

You're over over exaggerating... If they weren't feasible, there wouldn't be over a dozen models out there in this configuration. (Or we'd have reports of exploding and melting laptops everyday)

 

Here, randomly picked one with GTX 1650 Max-Q, doesn't perform too badly. I'm not asking for a 17 inch under 2kg to perform amazingly like the one's at 2.8kg. That's impossible due to physics. But nothing's stopping those decently cooled 15 inch sub 1.8kg laptops from just strapping a bigger screen and a slightly bigger chassi for a few hundred more grams. Especially given current gen CPU and GPU are getting ever more efficient. Seems like now's the time for such a device to exist (and the Dell pointed out earlier is essentially that)

[5x5]

1 minute ago, crystal6tak said:

You're over over exaggerating... If they weren't feasible, there wouldn't be over a dozen models out there in this configuration. (Or we'd have reports of exploding and melting laptops everyday)

 

Here, randomly picked one with GTX 1650 Max-Q, doesn't perform too badly. I'm not asking for a 17 inch under 2kg to perform amazingly like the one's at 2.8kg. That's impossible due to physics. But nothing's stopping those decently cooled 15 inch sub 1.8kg laptops from just strapping a bigger screen and a slightly bigger chassi for a few hundred more grams. Especially given current gen CPU and GPU are getting ever more efficient. Seems like now's the time for such a device to exist (and the Dell pointed out earlier is essentially that)

near 50*C case temp is okay with you? That is likely to cause mild burns if you touch it for longer periods (say if you have your hands on the WASD keys....

And that's the most heavily downclocked config available. The GF model with the i7 and 1660 runs at 60*C surface temps - that actually burns you fast...

As for what's stopping them - heatpipes being longer means = MUCH less efficient heat transfer and a BIG incraese in temperatures. What barely works (as above) on a 15" laptop would be an instant thermal shutdown on a 17.3" design.

The XPS pointed out earlier uses the same design for the dGPU and iGPU models. The i5 iGPU models runs over 90*C under load. Imagine what happens when you add 3x the power/heat. I'll tell you, massive overheating.

[crystal6tak]

2 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

near 50*C case temp is okay with you? That is likely to cause mild burns if you touch it for longer periods (say if you have your hands on the WASD keys....

And that's the most heavily downclocked config available. The GF model with the i7 and 1660 runs at 60*C surface temps - that actually burns you fast...

As for what's stopping them - heatpipes being longer means = MUCH less efficient heat transfer and a BIG incraese in temperatures. What barely works (as above) on a 15" laptop would be an instant thermal shutdown on a 17.3" design.

The XPS pointed out earlier uses the same design for the dGPU and iGPU models. The i5 iGPU models runs over 90*C under load. Imagine what happens when you add 3x the power/heat. I'll tell you, massive overheating.

Do what MSI and probably what a lot of manufacturer do, move the keyboard lower.

 

Regardless of what we speculate, we shall see once the new Dell XPS 17 is released.

[Enderman]

52 minutes ago, crystal6tak said:

ooOOooo 2.1kg, pretty good.

 

Unfortunately any laptop with mid-high tier GPU is labeled "gaming" laptop. Workstation laptop tends to refer to laptops with quadros which isn't what I'm looking for.

Ultraportable or slim or compact laptps then, just don't use the word gaming cause that usually maens the opposite.

The XPS and MBP are pretty much the only good quality laptops that are slim and light but also powerful.

[5x5]

21 minutes ago, crystal6tak said:

Do what MSI and probably what a lot of manufacturer do, move the keyboard lower.

 

Regardless of what we speculate, we shall see once the new Dell XPS 17 is released.

It's already out. I had a chance to even play with the 9500 at our local review outlets office. Got it to overheat with Aida64 in less than 10 mins with a CPU only load. Like I said, I'd you also stress the GPU, it just throttles the CPU to 800MHz and the GPU to 400MHz then it power cycles between 0.8 and 2.4GHz with temps cycling between about 70 and 100C depending on what clocks it reaches. It's a massive disappointment

[5x5]

Just now, Enderman said:

Ultraportable or slim or compact laptps then, just don't use the word gaming cause that usually maens the opposite.

The XPS and MBP are pretty much the only good quality laptops that are slim and light but also powerful.

While I agree, I'd say looking at the ThinkPad X1 Extreme is a better bet since , unlike the XPS, it doesn't reach 100C and throttle to 800MHz in a combined load

[Enderman]

25 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

While I agree, I'd say looking at the ThinkPad X1 Extreme is a better bet since , unlike the XPS, it doesn't reach 100C and throttle to 800MHz in a combined load

That's only a 15" laptop, and it's still even thicker than the XPS15.

So not really in the same class as the XPS17 or MBP16.

[crystal6tak]

45 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

It's already out. I had a chance to even play with the 9500 at our local review outlets office. Got it to overheat with Aida64 in less than 10 mins with a CPU only load. Like I said, I'd you also stress the GPU, it just throttles the CPU to 800MHz and the GPU to 400MHz then it power cycles between 0.8 and 2.4GHz with temps cycling between about 70 and 100C depending on what clocks it reaches. It's a massive disappointment

I see... Well hopefully more laptop in that category will come in the future.

 

I mean, just look at this 17 inch LG gram's internal (1.34 kg):

It's empty!!! (That black portion there? Just a paper, there's nothing there either)

 

Update cpu to 10 series, shrink the battery to like 36 Wh, move some stuff around (maybe give the CPU a wee bit more cooling), chuck a 1650 MQ, fan, and heatsink in there and call it a day.

[5x5]

12 minutes ago, crystal6tak said:

I see... Well hopefully more laptop in that category will come in the future.

 

I mean, just look at this 17 inch LG gram's internal (1.34 kg):

It's empty!!! (That black portion there? Just a paper, there's nothing there either)

 

Update cpu to 10 series, shrink the battery to like 36 Wh, move some stuff around (maybe give the CPU a wee bit more cooling), chuck a 1650 MQ, fan, and heatsink in there and call it a day.

Then you'd have a maximum of 3 hours of battery life. dGPUs consume power and running the CPU on a cTDP up setting also nearly doubles power draw. They'll kill their market presence if their ultrabook can't go past 2 and a half hours without a wall outlet. Not to mention it would need a lot more power delivery, at least 1 more heatpipe and a second set of fan/heatsink assembly. It would also need additional BIOS tuning. It's a lot of work for what would end up a device massacred by entry-level 600$ gaming laptops and then nobody would buy it since the Gram starts at 1200.

[5x5]

47 minutes ago, Enderman said:

That's only a 15" laptop, and it's still even thicker than the XPS15.

So not really in the same class as the XPS17 or MBP16.

My point was more towards the fact that the XPS models and the MBP run extremely hot and, in the case of the XPS, way below base clock.

[crystal6tak]

1 minute ago, 5x5 said:

Then you'd have a maximum of 3 hours of battery life. dGPUs consume power and running the CPU on a cTDP up setting also nearly doubles power draw. They'll kill their market presence if their ultrabook can't go past 2 and a half hours without a wall outlet. Not to mention it would need a lot more power delivery, at least 1 more heatpipe and a second set of fan/heatsink assembly. It would also need additional BIOS tuning. It's a lot of work for what would end up a device massacred by entry-level 600$ gaming laptops and then nobody would buy it since the Gram starts at 1200.

It would be a laptop for a niche market yes. But there are plenty of ridiculous laptop out there. I feel like an ultimate portable workstation would definitely be something not only I, but a big enough audience would be interested in. 

 

I'm personally looking to use it for Blender and Unreal on the go so I'm not looking for insane RTX 2080 level performance. Just enough to "game" comfortably (so not so low as MX250 level which struggles with basically everything)

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, crystal6tak said:

It would be a laptop for a niche market yes. But there are plenty of ridiculous laptop out there. I feel like an ultimate portable workstation would definitely be something not only I, but a big enough audience would be interested in. 

 

I'm personally looking to use it for Blender and Unreal on the go so I'm not looking for insane RTX 2080 level performance. Just enough to "game" comfortably (so not so low as MX250 level which struggles with basically everything)

Then why not the ThinkPad P1 or P73s? Those are exactly that. Same as the ZBook 15/17

[crystal6tak]

1 minute ago, 5x5 said:

Then why not the ThinkPad P1 or P73s? Those are exactly that. Same as the ZBook 15/17

P1 is 15 inch. I'm looking for 17 inch.

P73 is 3.4kg...

[5x5]

2 minutes ago, crystal6tak said:

P1 is 15 inch. I'm looking for 17 inch.

P73 is 3.4kg...

P73s, not P73

[crystal6tak]

Just now, 5x5 said:

P73s, not P73

Can you link? I'm not getting any hits on google searching "Thinkpad P73s"

[Enderman]

18 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

My point was more towards the fact that the XPS models and the MBP run extremely hot and, in the case of the XPS, way below base clock.

???

The MBP runs at 77C and the XPS9500 at 95C only with prime95. No tests on the 9700 yet but it has much better cooling than the 9500.

The MBP also runs at a higher frequency than the X1.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-16-2019-Laptop-Review-A-convincing-Core-i9-9880H-and-Radeon-Pro-5500M-powered-multimedia-laptop.445902.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-9500-Core-i5-Review-Now-Even-More-Like-a-MacBook-Pro.466868.0.html

[5x5]

23 minutes ago, Enderman said:

???

The MBP runs at 77C and the XPS9500 at 95C only with prime95. No tests on the 9700 yet but it has much better cooling than the 9500.

The MBP also runs at a higher frequency than the X1.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Pro-16-2019-Laptop-Review-A-convincing-Core-i9-9880H-and-Radeon-Pro-5500M-powered-multimedia-laptop.445902.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-XPS-15-9500-Core-i5-Review-Now-Even-More-Like-a-MacBook-Pro.466868.0.html

The 9500 runs at 90*C while rendering with a CPU only. Now imagine adding a 50W GPU to a cooling solution that barely handles a 40W i5. Exactly.
The 9700 actually has a worse cooling assembly. The pipes are longer and the heatsinks are further from the heat-generating components. I've not played with one yet but from insider information, it's a shitshow....

 

The MBP does run at higher clocks, while also being louder and hotter for the same work done

[crystal6tak]

15 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

The 9500 runs at 90*C while rendering with a CPU only. Now imagine adding a 50W GPU to a cooling solution that barely handles a 40W i5. Exactly.
The 9700 actually has a worse cooling assembly. The pipes are longer and the heatsinks are further from the heat-generating components. I've not played with one yet but from insider information, it's a shitshow....

 

The MBP does run at higher clocks, while also being louder and hotter for the same work done

No one is expecting a thin and light to be quiet, especially not one with a capable GPU. If anything, the MBP shows a 17 inch variant with a less power hungry GPU (e.g. 1650 max q) at 2kg would definitely be doable. Just a matter of if someone would make one (Asus please, you love making ridiculous laptops)