Power Supply Surges

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, TomvanWijnen said:

Hmm, that could work, actually! Would take me a while to switch the plugs, though (they are in a desk organiser thingy that clearly wasn't meant to be used :P - I can't get at them well).

 

My motherboard (nor my RAM) doesn't have RGB, but if there is a light that stays on, then that's a deal-breaker for me. My PC is in my bedroom, and it's (not on purpose) positioned so that I can see the motherboard lights from my bed... that doesn't seem very fun if they're on at night. 

 

For some reason turning the power on also turns my PC on, which is quite convenient.

There shouldn't be "lights" (plural) on on your motherboard.  Only one LED.  And you can just cover that up with a piece of electrical tape.

 

The reason your PC turns on when you power up the desk organizer thingy is because you have "state after power failure" in the BIOS set to "on".

 

[HairyChickens]

  

11 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Too bad they can't be bothered to put the total +12V capability on the label....

Interesting AC input range.  103V - 253V.  Not 100V - 240V, not 115V to 230V.  103V to 253V.  Do you think it really has full range input APFC?  Cute logo, I gotta say.

 

Yeah seems like a good idea to replace the psu regardless if its the motherboards fault. Don't want a smoky and crispy penguin in the house lmao.

 

I just checked and im actually running i5 3470 rather than a 2nd gen i5 and ik this might seem like a dumb question but is it ok if i buy a 500 w psu coz my Penguin is 550 (Probs wouldn't matter coz its just the 3470, hardrive, and a wifi card doesn't even have a case fan).

 

On the other hand, is it safe if I buy a 600 w 700 w power supply because I'm planning to retire this 8 year old boomer and I want to use it when I build a gaming PC in a year or so. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, HairyChickens said:

  

 

Yeah seems like a good idea to replace the psu regardless if its the motherboards fault. Don't want a smoky and crispy penguin in the house lmao.

 

I just checked and im actually running i5 3470 rather than a 2nd gen i5 and ik this might seem like a dumb question but is it ok if i buy a 500 w psu coz my Penguin is 550 (Probs wouldn't matter coz its just the 3470, hardrive, and a wifi card doesn't even have a case fan).

 

On the other hand, is it safe if I buy a 600 w 700 w power supply because I'm planning to retire this 8 year old boomer and I want to use it when I build a gaming PC in a year or so. 

Your PC probably doesn't even need 500W if you get a GOOD 500W considering it was working with this not-so-good 550W.

 

500W, 550W, 600W, 650W.. anything can be deemed "safe".  A PSU only delivers to the load what is demanded of it.

 

[HairyChickens]

17 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

500W, 550W, 600W, 650W.. anything can be deemed "safe".  A PSU only delivers to the load what is demanded of it.

So it is true that PSU delivers what it is demanded. Thought I read that somewhere lol.

 

Then a 400 w should be fine for my system right? coz its not that demanding (I found some reputable brands like evga, bequiet 400w ) or should I stick with 500 hundreds

 

I was gonna go 300 but then that went to my penguin silver box territory lol.

[Spotty]

30 minutes ago, HairyChickens said:

So it is true that PSU delivers what it is demanded. Thought I read that somewhere lol.

 

Then a 400 w should be fine for my system right? coz its not that demanding (I found some reputable brands like evga, bequiet 400w ) or should I stick with 500 hundreds

 

I was gonna go 300 but then that went to my penguin silver box territory lol.

The system draws power from the power supply. It will only draw what it needs. If you have a low power draw system like yours with the i5 and I'm assuming integrated graphics then you're going to have very low power draw, probably under 100W for the whole system under load. 

 

There's not really any good 300W ATX PSUs, at least outside of OEM stuff from Dell etc. Most customers won't buy such low wattage and often the cost of making a decent 300W would be the same as making a decent 450W anyway so there's little reason to sell 300W PSUs. 400/450W is where most somewhat decent PSUs start.

 

Look at some budget units like the Cooler Master MWE V2, Corsair CV/VS, Be Quiet System Power 9, EVGA W1 can sometimes be found super cheap with rebates (just don't buy the EVGA N1). They're far from great units but they're good enough for your needs and should be on the cheaper side. No point spending $100 on a PSU for a system that's worth $80

[HairyChickens]

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

The system draws power from the power supply. It will only draw what it needs. If you have a low power draw system like yours with the i5 and I'm assuming integrated graphics then you're going to have very low power draw, probably under 100W for the whole system under load. 

 

There's not really any good 300W ATX PSUs, at least outside of OEM stuff from Dell etc. Most customers won't buy such low wattage and often the cost of making a decent 300W would be the same as making a decent 450W anyway so there's little reason to sell 300W PSUs. 400/450W is where most somewhat decent PSUs start.

 

Look at some budget units like the Cooler Master MWE V2, Corsair CV/VS, Be Quiet System Power 9, EVGA W1 can sometimes be found super cheap with rebates (just don't buy the EVGA N1). They're far from great units but they're good enough for your needs and should be on the cheaper side. No point spending $100 on a PSU for a system that's worth $80

Thanks for the suggestions. (Good to see fellow aussies on here too lmao)

 

A question for everyone though.

 

Is it alright if I install the PSU upside down, because the PSU is mounted at the top in this case coz if I install a new psu the right side up its probably going to suffocate. ( I've seen PSUs with fans on the top and with fans on the bottom)

 

Ik I'm asking a lot of questions for a simple psu replacement but even though ive been watching pc build videos since I was like 9 I haven't done anything like this so I'm just making sure.

[Spotty]

2 minutes ago, HairyChickens said:

Is it alright if I install the PSU upside down, because the PSU is mounted at the top in this case coz if I install a new psu the right side up its probably going to suffocate. ( I've seen PSUs with fans on the top and with fans on the bottom)

If the PSU mount is at the top of the case then you will want the fan facing down towards the system, so that it pulls the air from the case and exhausts it out. When it comes to which way you mount the fan for a PSU just follow common sense and go with the mount that will give it access to the most air.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, HairyChickens said:

Thanks for the suggestions. (Good to see fellow aussies on here too lmao)

 

A question for everyone though.

 

Is it alright if I install the PSU upside down, because the PSU is mounted at the top in this case coz if I install a new psu the right side up its probably going to suffocate. ( I've seen PSUs with fans on the top and with fans on the bottom)

 

Ik I'm asking a lot of questions for a simple psu replacement but even though ive been watching pc build videos since I was like 9 I haven't done anything like this so I'm just making sure.

PSU's have no top or bottom.  You put them in however they fit that allows air to enter freely and exhaust out the back.

 

That's why they even work on the space station.

 

[HairyChickens]

So I've decided to buy either a Corsair CX450 or a CV450.

Right now I am leaning more towards the CX450.

 

What are the differences between the two. (Is the CV just a newer replacement for the CX?)

[Spotty]

1 minute ago, HairyChickens said:

So I've decided to buy either a Corsair CX450 or a CV450.

Right now I am leaning more towards the CX450.

 

What are the differences between the two. (Is the CV just a newer replacement for the CX?)

The CX450 is considerably better.

The CV450 is an upgrade to the VS450 with better efficiency (CV450 is 80+ Bronze while VS450 is 80+). It doesn't replace the VS though it exists alongside it as just a budget 80+ bronze unit.

[HairyChickens]

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

The CX450 is considerably better.

The CV450 is an upgrade to the VS450 with better efficiency (CV450 is 80+ Bronze while VS450 is 80+). It doesn't replace the VS though it exists alongside it as just a budget 80+ bronze unit.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention a friend gave me his spare 1050 for 70 bucks I was wondering if I put that into my system the CX450 should be good right? Might add an extra 4gb stick depending on the prices. 

 

Quick reminder to anyone who doesn't know the specs rn.

i5 3470

4gb ddr3 1333mz

This 500gb seagate barracuda i think its ST500M002 might be wrong

 

Probs irrelevant but:

Wifi card

DVD drive

PC has no case fans

[Spotty]

47 minutes ago, HairyChickens said:

Oh yeah I forgot to mention a friend gave me his spare 1050 for 70 bucks I was wondering if I put that into my system the CX450 should be good right? Might add an extra 4gb stick depending on the prices. 

 

Quick reminder to anyone who doesn't know the specs rn.

That will be fine.

The only issue you'll run in to with the CX450 is when using high end graphics cards that have more than one PCIe power connector - The CX450 only has a single PCIe power connector. The GTX1050 which doesn't have any supplementary power connectors won't be a problem.

Adding an extra stick of RAM or a wifi card isn't going to change power consumption by any noticeable amount.

[HairyChickens]

Alight the PC works now thank you everyone for your help.

 

Also the PC boots up considerably faster now quite strange coz I upgraded my PSU not to a SSD

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, HairyChickens said:

Alight the PC works now thank you everyone for your help.

 

Also the PC boots up considerably faster now quite strange coz I upgraded my PSU not to a SSD

It's interesting that it is now booting up faster...

 

I wonder if it's possible that the 5VSB circuitry was dead, meaning that when the power supply was shut down (in standby mode) the motherboard would not have been receiving power. Over time the CMOS battery would have died and every time you shut down the system there would be no power to the motherboard and it would lose its settings.

 

It could explain the problems you were having, and also this bolded line that I must've missed before. If it double boots that's a pretty good sign that it "forgot" the motherboard settings and the double boot is checking the memory. Normally it only does this once but if it loses its settings it will need to do it again each time. It would also explain why you weren't having any problems while the PSU was running and it was only when you booted the PC.

On 5/8/2020 at 10:47 PM, HairyChickens said:

Hi, all so I recently booted up my media PC and upon it booting up it showed a American Megatrends screen with a message saying "Power supply surges detected during the previous power on. ASUS Anti-Surge was triggered to protect the system from unstable power supply unit!". In the past I've read that Asus board are particularly sensitive to slight spikes, however in my case I don't think its the board being sensitive. This is because each time I boot up this PC  the power will temporarily go off for a few seconds (the lights, fan, hardrive noise etc.) and it will turn itself back on. When in use I don't notice any problems. It is only when I boot up. 

Since the new PSU has functioning 5VSB it can keep power to the system and will remember the settings, meaning it won't need to retrain the memory each time and configure itself. Can also be slowed down if there's multiple drives and it forgets the boot priority order and runs through the drives trying to find one with a bootable volume (OS).

 

Your CMOS battery is most likely dead. I'd recommend replacing it otherwise any time you lose power you'll lose your motherboard settings and it'll likely throw up the same error and do the double boot again. The CMOS battery is usually just a CR2032; can buy them from the supermarket in packs of 2 or 4 for a few dollars.

[HairyChickens]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:22 AM, Spotty said:

It's interesting that it is now booting up faster...

 

I wonder if it's possible that the 5VSB circuitry was dead, meaning that when the power supply was shut down (in standby mode) the motherboard would not have been receiving power. Over time the CMOS battery would have died and every time you shut down the system there would be no power to the motherboard and it would lose its settings.

 

It could explain the problems you were having, and also this bolded line that I must've missed before. If it double boots that's a pretty good sign that it "forgot" the motherboard settings and the double boot is checking the memory. Normally it only does this once but if it loses its settings it will need to do it again each time. It would also explain why you weren't having any problems while the PSU was running and it was only when you booted the PC.

Since the new PSU has functioning 5VSB it can keep power to the system and will remember the settings, meaning it won't need to retrain the memory each time and configure itself. Can also be slowed down if there's multiple drives and it forgets the boot priority order and runs through the drives trying to find one with a bootable volume (OS).

 

Your CMOS battery is most likely dead. I'd recommend replacing it otherwise any time you lose power you'll lose your motherboard settings and it'll likely throw up the same error and do the double boot again. The CMOS battery is usually just a CR2032; can buy them from the supermarket in packs of 2 or 4 for a few dollars.

Makes sense the CMOS battery is dead after all its 8 years old if not older. A CMOS battery is just that button battery on the motherboard right?

 

Also I think my issue still had to do with the PSU because after I typed up this post the text day it just wouldn't boot. It will go to the American Megatrends screen, which will lead me to the bios screen, after that its either the computer can't detect the perfectly working hard drive, it will show windows boot screen without the spinning dots OR if I press the Restart button on the case it will go back to the American Megatrends screen.

 

If the issues above is in fact only related to the CMOS battery then that would've been a cheap fix. BUT my dodgy PSU needed to be replaced any way. After reading about cheap chinese PSU horror stories, thinking about connecting that Penguin PSU gave me anxiety. 

[HairyChickens]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:22 AM, Spotty said:

Your CMOS battery is most likely dead. I'd recommend replacing it otherwise any time you lose power you'll lose your motherboard settings and it'll likely throw up the same error and do the double boot again. The CMOS battery is usually just a CR2032; can buy them from the supermarket in packs of 2 or 4 for a few dollars.

Also just out of curiosity does the CMOS battery recharge charge every time the PC is booted? Or does it just lasts a few years before it needs to be replaced.

[TomvanWijnen]

4 minutes ago, HairyChickens said:

A CMOS battery is just that button battery on the motherboard right?

Yup.

 

2 minutes ago, HairyChickens said:

Also just out of curiosity does the CMOS battery recharge charge every time the PC is booted? Or does it just lasts a few years before it needs to be replaced.

I'm not sure, but I don't think it does, as I don't think that they can be recharged.

 

They just sometimes randomly die, some earlier than others.

[Spotty]

The CMOS battery is indeed the small silver button battery on the motherboard.

 

Normally the power supply provides 5V to the motherboard when the system is off, this is from a separate circuit inside the power supply known as 5VSB (5V Stand By). The motherboard will draw a very small amount of power from it while the system is off and it uses that power to keep the memory of the settings for the motherboard. When power is lost such as in a black out or if you unplug the PC the CMOS battery provides that power. Under normal circumstances where the computer is kept plugged in the CMOS battery will last for years. However, if it's off power for long periods of time the battery will eventually drain and die.

 

What I think happened is the 5VSB on your power supply failed, and that caused the motherboard to rely on the CMOS battery, which over time eventually drained the battery and the board could no longer keep its settings saved.

 

Now that you've replaced the PSU the 5VSB is functioning and it is keeping your system powered when its shut down, so it's not relying on the CMOS battery to keep the settings saved.

 

One way to test would be to turn off your new power supply at the switch at the back of the PSU and leave it for a little while for it to lose charge then turn it back on and try starting it again. If the CMOS battery is working then it will have kept the settings and you will boot normally. If the CMOS battery is dead then you'll have the same issues booting and it might double boot (training memory).

As long as it stays plugged in and on the 5VSB will provide power to the board so it'll only be if you unplug the system or if there's a power outage where it would normally rely on the CMOS battery where it will be an issue, but since replacing the CMOS battery is a really simple job and they only cost a dollar or two I'd still recommend it just so you don't have to deal with the issues.

Also I think about 10 years is the shelf life for a lot of the CR2032 batteries (don't quote me on that) so at 8 years old it wouldn't hurt to replace it anyway.

[HairyChickens]

Wow thank you for that detailed reply.

 

Yeah a few bucks for a battery is nothing and if there is still juice in it ill probs chuck it in my door bell until it dies lol.

[artuc]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:20 PM, jonnyGURU said:

They only sell it in Australia because it can't meet safety and efficiency requirements of other parts of the world.

 

Actually we have some of the most nanny state electrical standards and regulations.

 

A lot of gear is technically illegal to use/install here even if it meets US/EU/UK standards as it has to pass AS/NZS standards and have an RCM mark.

 

Not saying that it's a good thing, it's actually a pain for honest importers as it's not worth it for such a small market.

 

No DIY electrical work, no DIY comms cabling. 

 

But we also tend to have lots of cheap, dodgy and counterfeit stuff because it's very cheap and easy to drop ship here from Asia and the rules aren't enforced strongly enough.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, artuc said:

Actually we have some of the most nanny state electrical standards and regulations.

 

A lot of gear is technically illegal to use/install here even if it meets US/EU/UK standards as it has to pass AS/NZS standards and have an RCM mark.

 

Not saying that it's a good thing, it's actually a pain for honest importers as it's not worth it for such a small market.

 

No DIY electrical work, no DIY comms cabling. 

 

But we also tend to have lots of cheap, dodgy and counterfeit stuff because it's very cheap and easy to drop ship here from Asia and the rules aren't enforced strongly enough.

I was going to say... I've been to Australia.  And I've seen some of the dodgiest stuff ever.  

 

I think the C-tick/RCM only applies to pre-built machines and not DIY products sold separately.

 

 

[verisimilar]

Isn't the penguin on that PSU the logo for Tencent QQ? Did tencent get into the sketchy PSU business, or is this some really weird Chinese trademark ripoff?

[HairyChickens]

1 hour ago, verisimilar said:

Isn't the penguin on that PSU the logo for Tencent QQ? Did tencent get into the sketchy PSU business, or is this some really weird Chinese trademark ripoff?

Yeah its the exact same penguin

[artuc]

On 5/16/2020 at 10:40 AM, jonnyGURU said:

I was going to say... I've been to Australia.  And I've seen some of the dodgiest stuff ever.  

 

I think the C-tick/RCM only applies to pre-built machines and not DIY products sold separately.

 

Yeah that probably tracks, it comes down to ignorance and dodgy importers/builders. Have online arguments pretty often for people to not buy dodgy LED lighting off ebay/aliexpress etc. so I'm not shocked.

 

Think some of it comes down to a lot being self regulated and not enforced aggressively. Legitimate name brands have a lot to lose so make sure they do everything by the book. Some dodgy fly by night brand just phoenixes and remains untouchable overseas.

 

Any PSU should have RCM, it's the MEPs efficiency for OEM/prebuilt that is if the numbers are over 200 but should still be using 80+ silver otherwise.

 

https://www.corsair.com/eu/pt/blog/australia-and-new-zealands-minimum-energy-performance-standard-for-deskto

 

A local shop uses 80+ gold on all theirs that are at least okay models from mainstream brands, dodgy builders not so much.

 

On paper we have pretty high standards but a lot of cheap and nasty is flying under the radar.

 

 

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, artuc said:

 

Legitimate name brands have a lot to lose so make sure they do everything by the book. Some dodgy fly by night brand just phoenixes and remains untouchable overseas.

 

I've even seen "legitimate brands" take a chance by creating "sub brands"that don't meet any of the safety or efficiency requirement and they have no mention what so ever as to who is actually behind the brand.  Probably because if there was a lawsuit, they don't want to be traced back to any particular company.  But you know where they came from because they come off the same container as the "parent brand's" stuff.

 

It's like if they wanted a Corsair case with a pre-installed PSU.  But the customer wanted something even cheaper than the VS series.  So they come up with the "Dingy" brand PSU to install into the cases and sell if cheap.