PSU FAN upgrade - any reasons not to do it??

[bololabich]

I've got XFX PRO 850W (circa 2013) PSU and after using some much quieter PC for a while, this PSU's noise makes me crazy, the CPU FAN is basically dead silent and my GPU turns off the fans completely under light load so that's only the PSU. 
What I've gathered on the web my PSU should have ADN512UB-A90 fan (135mm in 140mm bracket, 12v, 2 wire, 2500RPM, 100CFM) so I'd like to replace it with some other 140 fan that could go up to about 100CFM - although it's a bit high performance for a PC fan it's still perhaps not easy but doable to find something.

The issue is that all the PC FANs either have 3 or 4 wires and even at 100CFM they would still work at half the speed of that stock one so I'm worried if the PSU is smart enough to automatically adjust fan speed according to the temperature or is it more preset-based system and then it would get completely out of wack as any other fan would have completely different power and performance characteristics. 

[Metallus97]

Acording to our list 

 it is rated as a B- unit. Therefore Idd recommend to upgrade that thing rather than swiping the fan. Ok that depends a bit on the hardware youre powering with it.

 

 

About the fan: To run the fan there are only two wires needed. One for + and one for - current. The third plug is a RPM signal form the fan and the fourth is PWM to control fan speed. Therefore you can buy any 3pin fan and just not connect the third pin.

Idd recommend NF A12 in a 140mm bracket. That should push good while being silent.

The fan in your PSU has only two wires that makes me believe it is always running on full blast and therefore loud...

But yea upgrade the PSU if you can. Also be careful about opening the PSU. There are caps inside that can potentially kill you  

[bololabich]

11 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

Acording to our list 

 it is rated as a B- unit. Therefore Idd recommend to upgrade that thing rather than swiping the fan. Ok that depends a bit on the hardware youre powering with it.

 

 

About the fan: To run the fan there are only two wires needed. One for + and one for - current. The third plug is a RPM signal form the fan and the fourth is PWM to control fan speed. Therefore you can buy any 3pin fan and just not connect the third pin.

Idd recommend NF A12 in a 140mm bracket. That should push good while being silent.

The fan in your PSU has only two wires that makes me believe it is always running on full blast and therefore loud...

But yea upgrade the PSU if you can. Also be careful about opening the PSU. There are caps inside that can potentially kill you  

I don't think 2-wire fans work that way. Even if you connect a 2 wire fan to your motherboard you still have control over its speed no problem it's just less precise as it's regulated using power current plus I think if it was going full power it would be much louder  

 

Putting 12cm into 14cm sounds kinda pointless as 14cm should always be better choice plus it's like 40% weaker than the stock cooler - I wouldn't call it safe at all not to mention it's overpriced and not at all that great comparing with other lesser known but still good brands. 
I was thinking some sytche but they are impossible to get, so second best I found - though sadly a bit louder, would be Pure Wings 2 140mm high-speed - not ideal by any means but would match the performance of the stock one. 

[Metallus97]

2 minutes ago, bololabich said:

I don't think 2-wire fans work that way. Even if you connect a 2 wire fan to your motherboard you still have control over its speed no problem it's just less precise as it's regulated using power current plus I think if it was going full power it would be much louder  

 

Putting 12cm into 14cm sounds kinda pointless as 14cm should always be better choice plus it's like 40% weaker than the stock cooler - I wouldn't call it safe at all not to mention it's overpriced and not at all that great comparing with other lesser known but still good brands. 
I was thinking some sytche but they are impossible to get, so second best I found - though sadly a bit louder, would be Pure Wings 2 140mm high-speed - not ideal by any means but would match the performance of the stock one. 

2 wire fan on mobo: yes you do, because the mobo will do collage regulation. Normal PC fans run at 12V, MOBO will drop that down to reduce the RPM. And yes thats lees precise. So yeha the PSU could also be doing that.

 

NF A12 with a bracket performs better than NF A14 on a rad. Thats also something where you need static pressure. But ok then get a NF A14 to utilize the space. 

NF A12: OK please show me a better alrounder fan than it.

Pure Wings: To less pressure or jet takeoff mode

 

But yeha either way: Idd get a new PSU. Perfect opportunity to get something decent!

[bololabich]

Update:
I've looked up the fan interfaces and 3pin fan will be fine as 3rd pin is just the RPM feedback so the only concern is how the PSU sets the speed. Will it work fine with a fan of completely different power characteristic?   

[Metallus97]

Just now, bololabich said:

Update:
I've looked up the fan interfaces and 3pin fan will be fine as 3rd pin is just the RPM feedback so the only concern is how the PSU sets the speed. Will it work fine with a fan of completely different power characteristic?   

Yes thats what I meant!

 

I guess you should not go to much over the power draw of the original fan. But especially noctuas are pretty efficient. SO that should be fine.

[bololabich]

4 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

2 wire fan on mobo: yes you do, because the mobo will do collage regulation. Normal PC fans run at 12V, MOBO will drop that down to reduce the RPM. And yes thats lees precise. So yeha the PSU could also be doing that.

 

NF A12 with a bracket performs better than NF A14 on a rad. Thats also something where you need static pressure. But ok then get a NF A14 to utilize the space. 

NF A12: OK please show me a better alrounder fan than it.

Pure Wings: To less pressure or jet takeoff mode

 

But yeha either way: Idd get a new PSU. Perfect opportunity to get something decent!

But this one works perfectly fine and has all the certificates so why bother downgrading it to some brand new 500W? I've had it for ages now  
I see I did not think about the pressure but still ~60CFM isn't too little to replace 100CFM?

I'm not worried about the power it takes - I'm more worred if the PSU has a table saying: at 50C run fan at 10v, at 60C run it at 12v etc... if it's completely dynamic then it should be fine

[Bitter]

Some PSU run the fan at full blast all the time, some have a small thermal control with a temp sense bolted to a hot part of the PSU and that varies the voltage to the fan. The issue there is that the voltage curve setup in the controller may not work with other fans very well, either run them too fast or run them too slow, or not even run them at all until things are very hot. You'd need to measure the voltage control range of the fan you're removing vs the fan you're installing.

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, bololabich said:

But this one works perfectly fine and has all the certificates so why bother downgrading it to some brand new 500W? I've had it for ages now  
I see I did not think about the pressure but still ~60CFM isn't too little to replace 100CFM?

Voltage regulation, ripple, stability, longevity, safety, efficiency, ...

 

I guess it will be ok. The CFMs are at max speed. Running the Noc at max isnt that loud.

Or get a A14 that moves more but will have to be louder to get the pressure going 

[bololabich]

2 minutes ago, Metallus97 said:

Voltage regulation, ripple, stability, longevity, safety, efficiency, ...

 

I guess it will be ok. The CFMs are at max speed. Running the Noc at max isnt that loud.

Or get a A14 that moves more but will have to be louder to get the pressure going 

But then I'm hoping if I get something like that 100CFM be quite then it's 36db at 100% power but it's not like it will fun at full power all the time and then - goino of off some data I found on comparable fans - at 800RPM it should be about 50CFM, 20-22 db - not too bad just a tiny bit worse than that NF A12 but still having the performance if needed. 

[Metallus97]

1 minute ago, bololabich said:

But then I'm hoping if I get something like that 100CFM be quite then it's 36db at 100% power but it's not like it will fun at full power all the time and then - goino of off some data I found on comparable fans - at 800RPM it should be about 50CFM, 20-22 db - not too bad just a tiny bit worse than that NF A12 but still having the performance if needed. 

Or what about Industrial PPC NF A14?

More silent at same CFM than the Be Quiet but you can do 2000RMP wich you will NEVER need in a PSU and are LOUD

[bololabich]

NF-A14 industrial would be and overkill  I'd feel safe with something about 90CFM to match the stock one. I've tried measuring dbs with my prone ind it's actually slightly above 40db so it is actually possible it's blasting 100% all the time  wow that's a poor design on their side
Realistically - sure I'm not using this PSU 100% to be honest it would probably be fine even without any fan at all as my current setup is circa 400W but then if I put a weak and quiet fan in, forget about it and try to use this PSU to its full potential in the future I might have an unplesent surprise  

edit: 

Noctua NF-A14 iPPC 2000 looks to be the the best match just perhaps a little bit too expensive but if I can get a discounted oen then it's perfect

 

[Metallus97]

9 minutes ago, bololabich said:

NF-A14 industrial would be and overkill  I'd feel safe with something about 90CFM to match the stock one. I've tried measuring dbs with my prone ind it's actually slightly above 40db so it is actually possible it's blasting 100% all the time  wow that's a poor design on their side
Realistically - sure I'm not using this PSU 100% to be honest it would probably be fine even without any fan at all as my current setup is circa 400W but then if I put a weak and quiet fan in, forget about it and try to use this PSU to its full potential in the future I might have an unplesent surprise  

edit: 

Noctua NF-A14 iPPC 2000 looks to be the the best match just perhaps a little bit too expensive but if I can get a discounted oen then it's perfect

 

Buy used. Nocs never die  

[bololabich]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

Buy used. Nocs never die  

used ones cost like 2€ less than brand new lol (checked already) 

[Metallus97]

Just now, bololabich said:

used ones cost like 2€ less than brand new lol (checked already) 

I got mine for 15-18€ each

[LukeSavenije]

for all that it's worth... please don't try swapping a PSU fan

 

there are so many thing considered with it, that you need the specific fan in it or better in ways most consumer fans would look as pure garbage

 

and for noise it won't make any difference, since the controller behind it will still do the same

 

it's for the better to just buy a new PSU at that point

[bololabich]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

for all that it's worth... please don't try swapping a PSU fan

 

there are so many thing considered with it, that you need the specific fan in it or better in ways most consumer fans would look as pure garbage

 

and for noise it won't make any difference, since the controller behind it will still do the same

 

it's for the better to just buy a new PSU at that point

You mean there are some other metrics other than CFM that come into play? If I were to get that 30€ NF-A14 iPPC 2000 it has the same RPM, a bit heigher CFM and 12db lower sound level. As for the controller it seams to be running 100% all the time after all  so that shouldn't matter too much then I guess. 

[Metallus97]

7 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

for all that it's worth... please don't try swapping a PSU fan

 

there are so many thing considered with it, that you need the specific fan in it or better in ways most consumer fans would look as pure garbage

 

and for noise it won't make any difference, since the controller behind it will still do the same

 

it's for the better to just buy a new PSU at that point

Thats what I was saying at the beginning.

 

and yeha please trust him. He is one for our PSU boss guys  

[bololabich]

Welp.. but nowadays no one uses high power PSUs as all the components now take next to nothing power so selling it off for any decent money might be hard and then I'd still need to buy another one to replace it  

[Metallus97]

Just now, bololabich said:

Welp.. but nowadays no one uses high power PSUs as all the components now take next to nothing power so selling it off for any decent money might be hard and then I'd still need to buy another one to replace it  

take a look at our list. There are dencent units for cheap nowadays!

[bololabich]

1 minute ago, Metallus97 said:

take a look at our list. There are dencent units for cheap nowadays!

but still I'd need to sell off this one.. nowadays 2nd hand 1000W of comparable quality go for 40-50€.... 

[LukeSavenije]

5 minutes ago, bololabich said:

You mean there are some other metrics other than CFM that come into play? If I were to get that 30€ NF-A14 iPPC 2000 it has the same RPM, a bit heigher CFM and 12db lower sound level. As for the controller it seams to be running 100% all the time after all  so that shouldn't matter too much then I guess. 

to quote Corsair's Jonnyguru/Jon Gerow

Quote

The fan is controlled by a fan controller.  Replacing the fan does not change the fan controller.  There is a temperature to RPM ratio programmed into an MCU.  If the new fan doesn't have the same static pressure as the original fan, and an NF-A14 does not, then it's going to spin the fan faster and it's going to be actually louder than the original fan.

 

[bololabich]

1 minute ago, LukeSavenije said:

to quote Corsair's Jonnyguru/Jon Gerow

 

yeah that is the concern I had to begin with  Thanks for guidance  

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, bololabich said:

yeah that is the concern I had to begin with  Thanks for guidance  

no problem

 

if you have any questions left, feel free to quote/mention me

[LogicalDrm]

Few notes, from the time I researched this about my previous PSU (sold it for €30 ages ago, didn't change fan, told new owner that it will make noise).

 

The size of fan needs to be same that what the fan there already is. Otherwise connecting will be hard or if new is bigger, it just won't fit. The fan header can be either normal size, or like with mine, mini size. It wasn't even same mini used in GPUs, but different. So only way to connect wires would have been to solder. Too much hassle when I could just keep using and look for deals. Another way would be to run fan header to mobo header or to PSU directly.

 

CFM part is actually not that big issue. As while you do want to get close, it doesn't need to be higher. So if the reason for fan change would be to get lower noise, buying iPPC kinda defeats purpose.