PC case in another place

[Draghmar]

Hi.

For a long time I had this idea, recently reignited by one of the Linus videos where he upgraded his home server - move my PC away from the place I’m sitting. Original reason was very simple – silence. But now it got another angle. My PC is standing near a wall-mounted heater that has temp sensor to adjust power based on the room temp. The issue is my PC blows hot air right at the thermostat which renders it’s functionality quite useless, especially while I’m playing. And I can’t move that sensor anywhere…

 

(sorry if this should go into another subforum)
 

The one I’d like.

At first I wanted to move whole PC outside apartment, on balcony, hidden in special steel, industrial case (something like the one in attachment). It’s near the place I’m sitting which would require cables to be max 2m long. I’ve even manage to resolve humidity problem by using silica gel. I very liked that idea but I didn’t know what to do with ambient temps that could go way below 0C at winter which would cause water condensation, especially during night. If there is something that could be used to fight this then I’d definitively like to go this route. PC won’t be on 24h/d so it won’t heat itself. And there have to be some ways for the air to enter and cool it so I can’t just make full thermal isolation.

 

 

 

The one I could.

But if there isn’t, I thought that maybe I will just move PC into another room. There’s a place I could put it but the distance is greater. I think it would require cables to be even 4-5m long.
My question is mostly on how to approach this idea? I would need to plug in:

1. DisplayPort for LCD
2. LCD’s USB hub,
3. USB keyboard,
4. [optional] mouse is wireless and can be attached to LCD’s hub (like it is right now) or through the direct USB cable that would go through the wall to not take precious USB ports,
5. mini-jack for headphones,
6. some additional big USB hub or two smaller ones,
7. [optional] power button.

That alone gives at least six cables that would have to go through the wall and then along the other wall, right below balcony door. And that’s if I would lead them on the ground and not near ceiling, which would add another few meters.

Do you think this length could introduce some kind of issues? I need latency to be as low as possible.
Do you see any other way how to do it? Linus was using Thunderbolt from what I remember but that solution seems quite expensive. My motherboard doesn’t have this port so I would have to buy both expansion card and hub.

 

Remote powering on shouldn’t be an issue because I could just replace original button with wireless one. Although I’m not sure how that would work when long pressing is needed.

 

Whatever the action I’ll take I’m quite worried about making huge hole for all the cables and ports (with some additional space for some future cables) that could go there. I mean I don’t know at this point how I could make proper thermal and sound isolation. It’s especially important for making hole through the outer walls…

 

Any ‘happy’ thoughts are more than welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bombastinator]

“happy thoughts” huh?  Not many I’m afraid.

 

This is a concept that has in the past been thought about and rejected by many, and why silencing PCs instead of just sticking them in a closet became a thing.  It’s more expensive to move the PC away from the desk than it is to make it quiet. 

 

 

 

[Draghmar]

My PC is already in a closet, at my desk. I've removed back from the desk so the air could flow. But that of course made fans more annoying.

Is there a chance you could list of some bigger things that makes this idea bad? I do know that the case like the one from my post is quite expensive but in case of putting PC into another room it wouldn't require any changes to it. Just cable management...at least I think.

From my point of view, to make PC semi-silent it would require to make custom loop for both GPU and CPU and that is very expensive (at least EK's configurator tells me that ;))

[Bombastinator]

The issues that I saw were that you need either cables that were longer than 15’, or make a hole in your outside wall and use an all weather case.

To do cables longer than 15’ would require converting the USB to a different signal type and back again.  This is doable but expensive.  Getting the monitor signal to travel the distance is harder.  It can be done, but even more expensive and DisplayPort signal with its various features may not be an option at all.

 

The outside option requires an all weather case which afaik is not made.  The choice you showed has serious issues in that it is not vented at all and heat buildup would cause massive problems.  The hole in the wall is not the biggest problem unless you rent.  There are still issues though.  
 

If I had to choose one I would choose the interior solution as there are fewer unknowns, but it’s still likely to cost a lot of money.  The converters and cables can be quite expensive.  It is possible the cost and labor of doing so would be less than a watercooler custom loop. I am skeptical though.  One person claimed he did a full custom loop for his PC for $100 in parts by ordering parts directly from China.  Another option, depending on the wattage necessary, is to use large CPU air coolers on both the CPU and GPU.  This is only possible for large cases where only one GPU is in use and the air cooler eats all the space for the other slots.

[Draghmar]

Thanks for the info!

Fun fact - I didn't take max possible length into account because, for some irrational reason, I thought that specs for that are much more forgiving...So yeah it could be that having PC in other room would stretch DP's max possible length.

 

As for the 'all weather case' (is that an official English naming for that type of cases?) I forgot to mention that I'm aware that I would have to make holes in it in order to get air flow somehow. That's why I thought about silica gel for humidity issue that will show up. Thanks to you though I thought of a way to make some small experiment. I have some old Intel's ITX motherboard with Atom in some old small factor case. I'm going to revive it with ArchLinux, put some WiFi card (I hope I have some spare in my drawer...), make some seal leaving only in and out for air and leave it on my balcony to see what happens.

 

I wanted to get into water cooling many times but I'm quite noob in this regard. I mean I do understand basics, I watched some videos here and there but I'm a little bit afraid of getting all of the components by myself. The risk vs price.

 

[Bombastinator]

8 minutes ago, Draghmar said:

Thanks for the info!

Fun fact - I didn't take max possible length into account because, for some irrational reason, I thought that specs for that are much more forgiving...So yeah it could be that having PC in other room would stretch DP's max possible length.

 

As for the 'all weather case' (is that an official English naming for that type of cases?) I forgot to mention that I'm aware that I would have to make holes in it in order to get air flow somehow. That's why I thought about silica gel for humidity issue that will show up. Thanks to you though I thought of a way to make some small experiment. I have some old Intel's ITX motherboard with Atom in some old small factor case. I'm going to revive it with ArchLinux, put some WiFi card (I hope I have some spare in my drawer...), make some seal leaving only in and out for air and leave it on my balcony to see what happens.

 

I wanted to get into water cooling many times but I'm quite noob in this regard. I mean I do understand basics, I watched some videos here and there but I'm a little bit afraid of getting all of the components by myself. The risk vs price.

 

All weather is an electrician term for electrical boxes that have to go outside.  Which this sort of is.  They tend to be thick and have gaskets on the panels which your box did.  Silica gel is what museums use to control humidity inside cases.  It is very effective but it’s a chemical reaction and therefore doesn’t have a ton of capacity and uses itself up fast.  I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it needed near constant replacing in a wet area.  The only way I could think to make an outdoor box work would be to actually seal it and have a custom loop in it with a full coverage block for everything so it wouldn’t need airflow at all.  Radiators would have to be outside the case.  Kinda of defeats the purpose of avoiding doing a custom loop.

 

As to whether it’s more expense and trouble to do conversion for the usb and DisplayPort I do not know.  The only place I’ve seen such things done is that same Linus video and parts prices are not mentioned.  He seems to get a lot of stuff just sent to him though so I suspect the retail cost could be huge.  It’s probably less labor, so even if it’s a bit more money it might be preferable.

 

If I was to do this thing my personal move would be two big big air coolers. Noctua dh15s probably. It’s at least partially just because I’m an air cooling guy though and I’m more comfortable with it.  Air cooling has a downside in that it has a maximum capacity for even the biggest coolers of around 250w per cooler, whereas custom loop doesn’t.  There are other issues.  The result is fragile, isn’t very pretty looking, covers basically all the other pcie slots, and the big air coolers can be quite hard to fit so cases need to be large.  It’s simpler and more reliable though.  IF you want to use just the one video card, and have no other pcie AND your case is big enough it may have some advantages.  This is the place for custom loop though.  There is a reason people do it.

[Draghmar]

Silica gel is very effective and from what I was reading it should be enough for where I live. It's quite cheap and it can be regenerated by heating it in oven.
Yeah, I thought about making loop and moving heat spreader outside. But like you said - it wouldn't make sense.

 

I couldn't put CPU cooler on GPU even if I wanted to because I have sound card sitting in PCIE and I don't want to spend ~$100 just to replace something that works the way I like.

 

Anyway thanks for all your input! It gave me another angle to look from. I will do the test with ITX motherboard. I need to buy silica gel first but when I do I'll get back to share some results.

I won't scratch second room version just yet - I finally force myself to make some more accurate measurements and it seems that, if played correctly, it would require 4-4.5m  cables. But first the experiment and then good cables.

[butre]

sub-zero cooling itself isn't what causes condensation, it's cooling below the dew point.  at 0 degrees and 50% humidity the dew point is like -14.  condensation won't be an issue unless the saturation meets or exceeds 100%, which it won't do inside the case so long as the system stays running.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, Draghmar said:

Silica gel is very effective and from what I was reading it should be enough for where I live. It's quite cheap and it can be regenerated by heating it in oven.
Yeah, I thought about making loop and moving heat spreader outside. But like you said - it wouldn't make sense.

 

I couldn't put CPU cooler on GPU even if I wanted to because I have sound card sitting in PCIE and I don't want to spend ~$100 just to replace something that works the way I like.

 

Anyway thanks for all your input! It gave me another angle to look from. I will do the test with ITX motherboard. I need to buy silica gel first but when I do I'll get back to share some results.

I won't scratch second room version just yet - I finally force myself to make some more accurate measurements and it seems that, if played correctly, it would require 4-4.5m  cables. But first the experiment and then good cables.

The outside thing will depend on what kind of openings are made, how the opening is protected, and what kind of weather the outside box experiences.  

regarding making the hole, There are rentable drills and bits designed to plunge through walls to insert pipe. You’ll want a pipe big enough to push the plugs through not just the cables. If you insert a pipe and seal around the pipe it should work ok.  There is an electricians putty that will create a water seal but is removable.  It’s sort of an oil based clay.  It hardens but can be broken up.  I would extend the pipe beyond the wall far enough that a cap can be put on both sides.  You may not want the cap now but you might later.

 

the thing with the cables is different cable standards have different maximum lengths and you will be constrained by the shortest one.

[Draghmar]

22 hours ago, butre said:

sub-zero cooling itself isn't what causes condensation, it's cooling below the dew point.  at 0 degrees and 50% humidity the dew point is like -14.  condensation won't be an issue unless the saturation meets or exceeds 100%, which it won't do inside the case so long as the system stays running.

I didn't mean cooling to sub-zero but having all components in a sub-zero temp for a few hours without any heating source. The PC won't be on all the time. For example it would be off during the night and that's when issue may happen - turning on cold PC would generate some moisture.

But I didn't know that the condensation is directly related to the dew point. How do you calculate that?

 

22 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The outside thing will depend on what kind of openings are made, how the opening is protected, and what kind of weather the outside box experiences.  

regarding making the hole, There are rentable drills and bits designed to plunge through walls to insert pipe. You’ll want a pipe big enough to push the plugs through not just the cables. If you insert a pipe and seal around the pipe it should work ok.  There is an electricians putty that will create a water seal but is removable.  It’s sort of an oil based clay.  It hardens but can be broken up.  I would extend the pipe beyond the wall far enough that a cap can be put on both sides.  You may not want the cap now but you might later.

 

the thing with the cables is different cable standards have different maximum lengths and you will be constrained by the shortest one.

I didn't think about exact ways of making holes for ventilation. The simple version are simple holes with some dust filter and fans. More advanced would have additional silica gel filter to lower humidity that gets inside.

Thanks for the pipe tip.

[butre]

1 hour ago, Draghmar said:

I didn't mean cooling to sub-zero but having all components in a sub-zero temp for a few hours without any heating source. The PC won't be on all the time. For example it would be off during the night and that's when issue may happen - turning on cold PC would generate some moisture.

But I didn't know that the condensation is directly related to the dew point. How do you calculate that?

 

I didn't think about exact ways of making holes for ventilation. The simple version are simple holes with some dust filter and fans. More advanced would have additional silica gel filter to lower humidity that gets inside.

Thanks for the pipe tip.

you can approximate the dew point as d=t-((100-h)/5), where d is dew point in degrees celsius, t is ambient temperature in degrees celsius, and h is relative humidity.  so long as the surface temperature of the parts is above that point, condensation will not form.  this is why ln2 overclocking involves the use of a heat gun.  you're not making the system as a whole warmer, you're just keeping the surface temperatures above the dew point.