Looking at upgrading my cpu

[DominicNikon]

Hello, I am currently running a intel i5 4670k and I am looking at upgrading to either a i7 9700k or an amd ryzen 7 3800x or 3700x for a little video editing, mostly gaming and some 3d design software like solidworks for my engineering classes next year. What cpu would you guys get and why, the intel or amd? budget for cpu is around $350

[Jurrunio]

Ryzen 7 since they have SMT but i7 doesnt have HT, both 8 core CPUs. Intel is only preferred for Adobe and Gaming only machines.

[LogicWeasel]

4 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

What cpu would you guys get and why

You made it a very easy pick.  The AMD wins the recommendation by a MILE.  You do something that isn't gaming?  Boom, the AMD is the best pick and it's not close.  Anytime the use case involves video editing or solidworks you want the 8 Core/ 16 Threads, you WILL use them.  The 9700k would not be as good for video or 3D design as it only has 8 threads (no Hyperthreading).  Get either Ryzen 7 and don't look back.

 

The bonus is that the motherboard has newer features than a Z390 board and it isn't a dead-end for new CPUs like Intel's one is.

[LogicWeasel]

8 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

budget for cpu is around $350

Here's what a build mock-up would look like.  I hope you factored in the extra costs beyond the CPU itself with that $350 price tag because you will have to also get a new motherboard and RAM:

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 3.9 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($338.99 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X570-P ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($162.38 @ Amazon) 
Memory: Team T-FORCE VULCAN TUF Gaming Allian 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($54.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $556.36
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-28 16:39 EST-0500

[Fasauceome]

Ryzen motherboards can upgrade one more generation next year, while any Intel board you buy now is locked in with the current generation.

[Mister Woof]

Just wait until 10th gen Intel or 4th gen Ryzen. 4th gen Ryzen will decimate all, once we overnight parts from Taiwan.

[LogicWeasel]

1 minute ago, Mister Woof said:

Just wait until 10th gen Intel or 4th gen Ryzen

Assuming it's actually available for sale well before his engineering classes start.  I highly doubt 10th Gen Intel will be worth waiting for at all, and 4th Gen Ryzen can't be that close to coming out, could be waiting well into Q2-Q3 2020 for that.

[Mister Woof]

5 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

Assuming it's actually available for sale well before his engineering classes start.  I highly doubt 10th Gen Intel will be worth waiting for at all, and 4th Gen Ryzen can't be that close to coming out, could be waiting well into Q2-Q3 2020 for that.

if its really necessary for school, okay. but for gaming might be worth waiting until april

[DominicNikon]

1 hour ago, LogicWeasel said:

You do something that isn't gaming?  Boom, the AMD is the best pick and it's not close. 

can AMD be good for gaming or is Intel significantly better in gaming? If it matters i have 2 GTX 980s in sli and i play battlefield 4 and minecraft the most.

and yes i did factor in motherboard and ram costs but $350 was just for the cpu

[LogicWeasel]

14 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

can AMD be good for gaming

Yes, notice I didn't say "and you don't game"    AMD is within a cpl % of Intel at that high end, and in some games ahead or it doesn't matter (a draw).  You are not hurting your FPS by any amount I would care about.

 

Intel only wins as the right pick for those that only game, and have no plans to do anything else, and even then, you pay a bit of a premium for those extra couple of fps.

[DominicNikon]

@LogicWeasel why does Intel perform better in some games then AMD? I looked up benchmarks for battlefield 4 on both cpus since it's the only graphical intensive game i play and according to this website: https://www.gpucheck.com/compare-game-cpu/battlefield-4/intel-core-i7-9700k-3-60ghz-vs-amd-ryzen-7-3700x/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080

The i7 beats the 3700x by 0.5 fps on ultra settings at 1440p

[LogicWeasel]

26 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

why does Intel perform better in some games then AMD?

That's quite complicated but some of the reasons I'm aware of are:

 

-Intel was so dominant in CPU market share (among gamers / desktop pcs) in the past years before Ryzen came out that Devs optimized for them and some of those tweaks didn't apply to AMD.  (That's now quickly melting away now that Ryzen is here to stay and notably does not suck and is rapidly taking over market share).  (In short, Devs have to care more now vs 5 years ago about AMD CPUs because more gamers will have them in high-end gaming rigs with big GPUs).

 

Other things have to do with it are: slight IPC differences, turbo behavior, memory controller (1% lows), and inherent architecture things in Skylake/Coffee Lake-S (good at some types of operations bad at others)

[DominicNikon]

3 hours ago, LogicWeasel said:

Here's what a build mock-up would look like.

what is the difference between the 3700x and 3800x since they have the same core and thread count?

[LogicWeasel]

11 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

what is the difference between the 3700x and 3800x since they have the same core and thread count?

Base clock, Boost Clock, binning, & TDP is rated higher for 3800x.  If you don't think you'll see a difference feel free to pick the 3700x unless the price difference is <$25

[DominicNikon]

20 minutes ago, LogicWeasel said:

Base clock, Boost Clock, binning, & TDP is rated higher for 3800x.  If you don't think you'll see a difference feel free to pick the 3700x unless the price difference is <$25

ok. so from this conversation i would think the AMD ryzen 3800x/3700x (dependent on price) would be the best option since im going to be doing solidworks in my engineering classes and not just gaming. 

I have a corsair h105 liquid cooler (240mm radiator) would that be fine to cool it?

it feels weird just 4 years ago i would never of considered buying an AMD cpu only intel but they might have won me back

 

[LogicWeasel]

13 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

I have a corsair h105 liquid cooler (240mm radiator) would that be fine to cool it?

Yup, they really are not hotter than the modern Intels, the 7nm AMD CPUs do great on heat/cooling needs (they're not untamable fire tornados) just make sure you have the AMD (AM4 but also same fit for a cooler as AM3) bracket for the cooler.

 

14 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

it feels weird just 4 years ago i would never of considered buying an AMD cpu only intel but they might have won me back

Yup, amazing what a difference becoming competitive again on CPUs will do.  You are by far not the only one.

[Mister Woof]

2 hours ago, DominicNikon said:

@LogicWeasel why does Intel perform better in some games then AMD? I looked up benchmarks for battlefield 4 on both cpus since it's the only graphical intensive game i play and according to this website: https://www.gpucheck.com/compare-game-cpu/battlefield-4/intel-core-i7-9700k-3-60ghz-vs-amd-ryzen-7-3700x/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080

The i7 beats the 3700x by 0.5 fps on ultra settings at 1440p

Because Ringbus > Infinity Fabric. Inter-ccx commnication takes almost three times as long on Zen 1 and +. It's only about 50% worse on Zen 2.

 

Even though IPC and overall throughput is about equal on single threaded performance, and possibly higher on multithreaded performance, Intel generally beats Zen2 at gaming.

 

See here, like for like 3700x 4824 multi/500 single vs 9900k's 4894 multi/502 single. Should be nearly identical performance, right?

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/1869-amd-ryzen-3900x-ryzen-3700x/

 

 

 

Except...in a lot of titles, it just doesn't translate out that way.

 

 

 

As you can see here, this is the latency at play:

 

 

People talk about "optimized for Intel bias" but I believe this latency is the real reason it happens.

 

Zen 3 could totally curbstomp intel in this department soon, though.

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/83347-zen-3-rumored-flaunting-monumental-ipc-gains-early.html

 

Per Techspot:

Quote

The rumored Zen 3 octa-core CCD design flips that on its head and could take away Intel’s latency advantage in games. Testing has shown that Zen 3 apparently has "significantly enhanced" latency across the chip. I doubt many Milan server CPUs have been tested with games, but when consumer Zen 3 does arrive, the IPC increase in games could be more than what we're hearing about currently.

 

@Zando Bob you might find this interesting

[DominicNikon]

@LogicWeasel i was looking at increasing my budget for the cpu and what do you think of the ryzen 9 3900x compared to the ryzen 7 3800x?

[LogicWeasel]

17 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

what do you think of the ryzen 9 3900x compared to the ryzen 7 3800x?

I think it has 4 more cores and kicks a lot of ass at highly threaded workloads like renders, edits, pro stuff.  Doesn't do squat for gaming right now, but if you think the extra money is worth the extra solidworks / video rendering chops might be neat.

 

I personally would advise caution though if you can afford to wait, because if the leaks are anything near correct, we may see a huge IPC bump from Ryzen 4000 series.  The leaker-sites like WCCF Tech are already claiming could be up to 17% CPU uplift on the new Zen3 architecture (of course take that with a barrel 'o salt).  But that should be coming out somewhere around mid-2020.

[DominicNikon]

12 hours ago, LogicWeasel said:

somewhere around mid-2020

what would the IPC increase benefit? Also what month does AMD typically release new cpus?

[LogicWeasel]

4 hours ago, DominicNikon said:

what would the IPC increase benefit?

Basically everything.  In simplified terms it makes for a more potent CPU, so you always want higher IPC, it can be one reason why a newer CPU at 3.2Ghz is faster in games than an older one at that same frequency (assuming other stuff is same/similar).  IPC is how much it gets done in a clock cycle (multiply that by its frequency, which is clock cycles per second, and you get how much a CPU gets done in 1 second).

Quote

 Also what month does AMD typically release new cpus?

are expected to launch by summer of 2020

[DominicNikon]

7 hours ago, LogicWeasel said:

are expected to launch by summer of 2020

Ok, i will wait for 4th gen ryzen unless it releases months into my engineering classes and in that event i would just get the 3900x. i decided that i would benefit from the extra cores because it has 12 cores compared to the 3800xs 8 cores