PC Randomly Freez and Restart (like power off) and restart.

[MedoooMedooo]

Hello,

 

This is my first post here, I hope this is the correct forum.

 

Long story short: I have pre build small PC (OEM) with 2x2 DDR3 Samsung, everything work great until I replaced my RAM to 2×4 Gb exactly (same speed 1333mhz- same voltage - same PC3 10600U ) but used from Crucial.

Then my PC start randomly freez but no blue screen and then restart ( not normal switch off but like power off, the PC freez 1-4 seconds and then restart. This happens randomly somtimes 2 per day and sometimes 1 per month.

I test the RAM so carefully with many apps, like MemTest86+, Windows Memory Diagnostic and DecMemory.

All test came out with no errors, so i don't know what to do, is it power problem or ram problem?

What i tried:

- I did fresh windows install.

- Disconnect my DVD to save power.

- Changed my GPU.

- Changed my CPU.

All with no luck..

Note: my Bios is soooo limit so i can't change voltage.

 

Please help .... Thanks!!!

 

[Nord]

Power should not be a problem, if you had 2x 2gb sticks before and now you got 2x 4gb sticks there is no difference in power consumption, as long as they are on the same voltage. CPU-Z should be able to tell you that within windows, DDR3 should run on 1,5V.

 

The only other reasonable explanation I can think of would be:

XMP profile or similar activated in bios (maybe even automatically) and the RAM now run higher than the 1333mhz. (Again, if you can't check in BIOS, use CPU-Z or similar - but take the number it reads out x2. So 1333mhz would be reported as 666mhz in any software readout, because double data rate. 1600mhz would be 800mhz.)

The RAM are actually really broke but just in such a “weird” way that you won't find an error quickly up until you run memtest for several days on loop.
 

Also be aware that some pre built system builders are, simply put, assholes and already configured their systems to only run with selected RAM sticks. Usually if that's the case, you would not even be able to boot or get into windows, but maybe the new RAM are just so similar that the system does not always detect them as “wrong”.

[MedoooMedooo]

16 hours ago, Nord said:

Power should not be a problem, if you had 2x 2gb sticks before and now you got 2x 4gb sticks there is no difference in power consumption, as long as they are on the same voltage. CPU-Z should be able to tell you that within windows, DDR3 should run on 1,5V.

 

The only other reasonable explanation I can think of would be:

XMP profile or similar activated in bios (maybe even automatically) and the RAM now run higher than the 1333mhz. (Again, if you can't check in BIOS, use CPU-Z or similar - but take the number it reads out x2. So 1333mhz would be reported as 666mhz in any software readout, because double data rate. 1600mhz would be 800mhz.)

The RAM are actually really broke but just in such a “weird” way that you won't find an error quickly up until you run memtest for several days on loop.
 

Also be aware that some pre built system builders are, simply put, assholes and already configured their systems to only run with selected RAM sticks. Usually if that's the case, you would not even be able to boot or get into windows, but maybe the new RAM are just so similar that the system does not always detect them as “wrong”.

Thanks for answer, i checked and the speed is correct. The second thing, the two new ram are similar with speed and voltage, but if i looked at timing i have something not similar:

If i go to spd tab, i notice deference but i am not sure. I will post photo so can you look at it too.

[Nord]

Setting wise they look fine, you are also running on JEDEC verified speed, which basically means that it is supposed to work. 

 

The timings will differ from RAM to RAM, lower is better but they get higher the higher the bandwidth of the RAM (MHZ) gets. In theory this should not matter at all.
However, coming back to my previous point with pre-built systems & some companies simply being a.holes it might does. Unfortunately, you can't really do anything about it, especially if the BIOS is locking you out from changing voltages already, it most definitely won't let you adjust CAS latencies.

 

 

But the good news is, I think I found the problem: 

You are using the wrong RAM slots on the motherboard.

 

If you check on CPU-Z, Slot #1 is single, Slot #3 is dual. That does not seem right.

Consult your motherboard manual on which slots you should fill to run dual channel or simply try all combinations & check with CPU-Z so that they both use dual-channel.

Usually it's #2 & #4, but things differ sometimes.

[MedoooMedooo]

5 hours ago, Nord said:

Setting wise they look fine, you are also running on JEDEC verified speed, which basically means that it is supposed to work. 

 

The timings will differ from RAM to RAM, lower is better but they get higher the higher the bandwidth of the RAM (MHZ) gets. In theory this should not matter at all.
However, coming back to my previous point with pre-built systems & some companies simply being a.holes it might does. Unfortunately, you can't really do anything about it, especially if the BIOS is locking you out from changing voltages already, it most definitely won't let you adjust CAS latencies.

 

 

But the good news is, I think I found the problem: 

You are using the wrong RAM slots on the motherboard.

 

If you check on CPU-Z, Slot #1 is single, Slot #3 is dual. That does not seem right.

Consult your motherboard manual on which slots you should fill to run dual channel or simply try all combinations & check with CPU-Z so that they both use dual-channel.

Usually it's #2 & #4, but things differ sometimes.

Thanks, i checked the manual and it's correct, 1-3 or 2-4, the slots even have colors to match. So basically i installed it correctly, and you can notice from picture 3 it said Dual.. 

Even if it isn't correct, i don't think it will cause that problem, what i can only think about is one module has problem even memtest64 can't find it.

So what i will do, is remove one RAM and see if the problem solved and then switch it, and see if one it them cause the problem.

What you think ? 

[Nord]

I was actually referring to the ranks. Though for the wrong reasons.

On picture #1 it says "ranks: single" and on #2 "ranks dual", thats what was putting me off.

 

However, even though my initial idea behind it was wrong, I did some googling on the matter and found this:

 

https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1611975-dumb-question-dual-channel-vs-ranks.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_rank

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1376882-can-i-use-single-ranked-ram-in-one-channel-and-a-dual-ranked-ram-in-a-separate-channel/page/2/
(answer from DevTech)

Knowing this, the TL:DR is that your two RAM sticks, while "technically" the same, are built differently. One with single rank modules the other with dual rank modules and there is a good chance that his is causing the problem, as they work "differently" from each other, while "technically" being the same and the BIOS needs to support this properly.

At this point I'm just guessing, but it sounds reasonable. It might be that a BIOS update could fix it, however personally I would not risk updating the BIOS on an otherwise working system just for 50$< worth of RAM. 

 

I think the best solution would be to return the RAM, for the reason stated above (I didn't know this exists so the retailer definitely won't either) and getting a new pair while hoping it comes with the same ranks on the sticks and therefore fixes the problem. Otherwise do your idea with using them 1by1 and see which one causes it, my guess would be that on their own they will work fine.

[MedoooMedooo]

I think you are right, they are physically not the same, one with RAM on two sides and one with only on one side, so maybe my Mainboard is too old to support this, because i don't have any option to config the Ram. I have last update for bios from official website 2015, no newer one.

I will try one by one. Or buy a complete "kit" so the two ram modules will be 100% same ram physically and by specs and will give later a feedback.

 

Really thanks a lot for helping me on this, have a nice day.

[Nord]

1 hour ago, MedoooMedooo said:

Or buy a completely one "kit" so the two ram modules will be 100% same ram physically and by specs and give later a feedback.

From what I've red even sticks that come in pair-packaging might be built in single/dual rank and mixed together. One guy on a forum said corsair is knowen to do this rather often.

 

If you order them online, you usally can return w/o any reason within 30days.
If you buy them localy, ask if they can open the package or verfiy, with right to return if not so, that the sticks are built the same.

 

and no problem.

[MedoooMedooo]

21 hours ago, Nord said:

From what I've red even sticks that come in pair-packaging might be built in single/dual rank and mixed together. One guy on a forum said corsair is knowen to do this rather often.

 

If you order them online, you usally can return w/o any reason within 30days.
If you buy them localy, ask if they can open the package or verfiy, with right to return if not so, that the sticks are built the same.

 

and no problem.

I bought used kit from internet, and it looks the same from outside. When i receive it, I will test it and see

[MedoooMedooo]

On 9/22/2019 at 3:49 PM, Nord said:

From what I've red even sticks that come in pair-packaging might be built in single/dual rank and mixed together. One guy on a forum said corsair is knowen to do this rather often.

 

If you order them online, you usally can return w/o any reason within 30days.
If you buy them localy, ask if they can open the package or verfiy, with right to return if not so, that the sticks are built the same.

 

and no problem.

Solved!! The problem was Rank thing, so i bought 2 module with single rank and it worked with no errors on MemTest86.

 

Now i want to ask last question, i am using now 3 identical 4 GB = 12 GB 

They are working good. What you advise? 3 RAM for 12gb or 2 for 8GB as i know about the dual channel thing.

 

Anyway i still see CPU-Z that i have dual channel.. maybe the 2 work dual and last one as single or CPU-Z has wrong info .. i am not sure..

[Nord]

Really depends on what you are doing with the PC.

For gaming I would definitely stick with dual channel as this usually nets noticeable extra FPS, especially in E-Sports titles. (However for some games 8GB might not be “enough” and will hence end in worse performance than you would have with 12GB, especially battlefield, (newer) total war and city building games)

For video/photo editing work I don't know if there is a difference. I would assume that in your case you would get better performance with the 12GB setup, as generally more RAM is better than channel settings for such applications. 

For office work or stuff you do within a browser, excel/word, VM’s, notepad++ and similar definitely keep the 12GB.

 

 

Ofc wrong channel settings can cause issues, but if it does not, there is no need to worry about it. Unless you want all the possibly available FPS in games

[MedoooMedooo]

On 9/27/2019 at 5:47 PM, Nord said:

Really depends on what you are doing with the PC.

For gaming I would definitely stick with dual channel as this usually nets noticeable extra FPS, especially in E-Sports titles. (However for some games 8GB might not be “enough” and will hence end in worse performance than you would have with 12GB, especially battlefield, (newer) total war and city building games)

For video/photo editing work I don't know if there is a difference. I would assume that in your case you would get better performance with the 12GB setup, as generally more RAM is better than channel settings for such applications. 

For office work or stuff you do within a browser, excel/word, VM’s, notepad++ and similar definitely keep the 12GB.

 

 

Ofc wrong channel settings can cause issues, but if it does not, there is no need to worry about it. Unless you want all the possibly available FPS in games

Thanks. I use this PC primarily as advanced smart Tv if you know what I mean. It is a small pre build PC. So watching YouTube and causal gaming, but only the demanding AAA games. I am not E-Sport games fan. So with my i7-2600 and 1050ti, I get good game experience 1080p. I just read in the internet that the first 2 Stick work as a dual channel till 8GB and when I reach up +8Gb it start to use a single channel. Anyway, I will keep the 12 until I found 1 stick with exactly 100% same RAM module to buy.

Have a nice day