Audio upgrade has....... decreased??

[Xiauj]

Hey everyone, quick question:

I just replaced a 3.5mm>StereoRCA(RedAndWhite) cable with a 3.5mm>1.4"(6.35mm) cable for My PS4 Setup specifically and for some reason, the audio suddenly sounds like crap?? For example, when I'm on the main PS4 Menu where it displays Your applications/PSN-Store/list-of-installed-games etc. and when scrolling up/down/left/right, it sounds quieter than before. Whenever I bring up the keypad to write something, it sounds quieter than before. They both sound quieter than before as mentioned! What the heck...

 

 

The setup from start to finish is this:

I have a HDMI Cable going from the PS4-Console straight into My Samsung U28E590D Monitor and I'm using the 3.5mm-Headphone Port with the newly purchased 3.5mm>1.4"(6.35mm) cable (2-metre long) going into My Alto ZMX862 Audio Mixer on Channel-2 at +10dB.

 

So, why is the audio suddenly quieter on certain menus as opposed to the previous cable?? Any ideas on how to fix this please?

Thanks.

[circeseye]

maybe poor quality cable?

[Xiauj]

27 minutes ago, circeseye said:

maybe poor quality cable?

It's brand new..... How could it possibly be the cable? 

Nylon Braided, High Grade Zinc Alloy Housing, Multiple interior shielding for better conductivity/durability, Silver Plated Copper.

[rice guru]

18 minutes ago, Xiauj said:

It's brand new..... How could it possibly be the cable? 

Nylon Braided, High Grade Zinc Alloy Housing, Multiple interior shielding for better conductivity/durability, Silver Plated Copper.

It's rarely the cable. It most likely the DAC/amp  on the Samsung monitor not being very good. 

[Xiauj]

4 minutes ago, rice guru said:

It's rarely the cable. It most likely the DAC/amp  on the Samsung monitor not being very good. 

So.., do You think it could be the Samsung Monitor's headphone port that might be the issue/bottleneck?

If so, what else would You suggest?

 

I suppose sticking with a 3.5mm>StereoRCA(RedAndWhite) cable but I thought that 1.4" (6.35mm) gives better sound quality? Correct? Or does it not?

Edited September 14, 2019 by Xiauj

[rice guru]

5 hours ago, Xiauj said:

So.., do You think it could be the Samsung Monitor's headphone port that might be the issue/bottleneck?

If so, what else would You suggest?

 

I suppose sticking with a 3.5mm>StereoRCA(RedAndWhite) cable but I thought that 1.4" (6.35mm) gives better sound quality? Correct? Or does it not?

yes I think it's the monitor. cable doesn't matter in fact most audio gear usues RCA BOth my speaker amp , headphone amp, as well as my DAC uses RCA.  what I would say you do is you use the on board. as the DAC on that would be better than your monitor's. a dac is a digital to analog converter. your phone, an mp3 player, your pc, your monitor has a DAC what it does it takes the digital signal from your pc or your HDMI cable and makes it analog which is the signal  your speakers can read and output. 

[vanished]

There's a piece of the story missing here and it's possible that it's the reason.  How did you switch from an RCA output to 1/4" without changing something else?  You must have also had an additional adapter (or are using one now), or switched to a different input on your mixer, etc.  A different mixer input is more likely to cause a change than swapping these basic passive adapters.

 

6 hours ago, Xiauj said:

I suppose sticking with a 3.5mm>StereoRCA(RedAndWhite) cable but I thought that 1.4" (6.35mm) gives better sound quality? Correct? Or does it not?

I've also never heard of 1/4" being better than RCA and can't think of a reason for that.  The only way you could noticeably improve the signal would be to change to a balanced connection so any noise picked up along the 2m run is cancelled out, and that would require 1/4" (or XLR or something other than RCA), but just having a normal unbalanced 1/4" isn't going to change anything.

 

If you're looking for the best sound though, you'll want to "intercept" the audio before it gets to the monitor, while it's still digital, and run it to a high quality DAC and amp rather than using whatever is built into the monitor, which is probably poor at best.  Whether that's worth it or not is another story, but it would definitely make more of a difference than swapping from RCA to 1/4"

 

Edit: now that I think about it, I think I'm probably on to something with this mixer input + balanced idea.  If you're running a 1/4" TRS cable carrying unbalanced stereo sound into that channel, which expects it to be balanced mono, it's going to effectively cancel them against each other and leave you with only what's different between the two, and out of phase at that, if I'm not mistaken.  If that's not it, it's possible that the left channel is going in fine but that the right is just being completely lost.  By the looks of it, the RCA inputs on your mixer are designed for stereo, but "channel 2" is just for a mono input.

[Xiauj]

21 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

How did you switch from an RCA output to 1/4" without changing something else?

I just simply decided to switch from using Channel 3/4 on the mixer (3.5mm>StereoRCA cable IN) over to Channel 2 (3.5mm>1.4" cable) going IN.

 

Channel 3/4 on the mixer has Red and White ports aka Stereo-RCA as its input and Channel 2 has a XLR port and 1.4" port beneath as its input.

Here's an image of My mixer:

Spoiler

 

21 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I've also never heard of 1/4" being better than RCA and can't think of a reason for that.

Wait really?? Oh. Well in that, I guess whoever told Me that was lying....  That's annoying!

 

 

21 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

If you're looking for the best sound though, you'll want to "intercept" the audio before it gets to the monitor, while it's still digital, and run it to a high quality DAC and amp rather than using whatever is built into the monitor, which is probably poor at best.  Whether that's worth it or not is another story, but it would definitely make more of a difference than swapping from RCA to 1/4"

Ah I see, that's good to know.

Just wanna add this in advance, but, I have zero knowledge on how DACs/Amps work. I see people buying them a lot but have never really looked into it, what they are, what they do etc... o.o

I have only this audio-mixer (Image above) and no other just so that My audio from My Main PC + PS4 + Other devices all flow into this mixer and out via one pair of headphones

Edited September 15, 2019 by Xiauj

[vanished]

7 minutes ago, Xiauj said:

I just simply decided to switch from using Channel 3/4 on the mixer (3.5mm>StereoRCA cable IN) over to Channel 2 (3.5mm>1.4" cable) going IN.

 

Channel 3/4 on the mixer has Red and White ports aka Stereo-RCA as its input and Channel 2 has a XLR port and 1.4" port beneath as its input.

Here's an image of My mixer:

  Hide contents

 

ah ok now we're getting somewhere.  The thing is it looks like channel 3/4 is still 1/4" plugs, unless the RCA over to the right are considered part of that and just not labelled.  See my edit above if you didn't catch it at first, that's my leading theory at the moment.

7 minutes ago, Xiauj said:

Ah I see, that's good to know.

Just wanna add this in advance, but, I have zero knowledge on how DACs/Amps work. I see people buying them a lot but have never really looked into it, what they are, what they do etc... o.o

I have only this audio-mixer (Image above) and no other just so that My audio from My Main PC + PS4 + Other devices all flow into this mixer and out via one pair of headphones

Basically they take the digital signal and create an analog form that actually moves the speaker cone.  The more accurately this is done, the better it will sound, with less hiss, distortion, etc.

[Xiauj]

@Ryan_Vickers Hey, so umm..... I've just discovered something whilst after finishing doing something earlier IRL, lol.

 

So, I plugged the 3.5mm>1.4"(6.35mm) cable into a LG-Monitor over to the Audio-mixer and straight into Channel 2 (Again, please refer to the image above to refresh Your memory of what the mixer looks like etc.) which is attached to My UDOO_BOLT_V8 SBC with UBUNTU installed and when I did, I loaded up a YouTube Video for testing the audio and Oh My God............  My ears were in agony. The audio sounded very echo-y/squeaky and some on loud, deep-bass-y songs because that's what I tend to listen too, the lyrics were kinda like, "at the back of the song" if You see what I mean. Like, I can hear more of the song itself than I can the actual human-lyrics when they kick into place.

 

Whilst still listening to it, I had decided to check the settings. The balance is default as fully expected aka: Split equally between LEFT ear and RIGHT ear.

I changed it so that all the audio goes to the RIGHT ear and that makes everything sound great  Is that intended? Does this mean that 1.4"(6.35mm) is like, too much power? Or the wrong type/format? Or something maybe? I'm sooo confused lol.

 

Also today I learned: UBUNTU grants You an option to over-amplify audio which exceeds 100% which I had never knew about. I don't know if Windows 10 can do this or not.

 

Also another thing I learned: From what I can tell in the PS4-Settings, You can't specify the audio to go in a 'specific direction' if You see what I mean. I don't think You can at least. So for example, I can't say that I want all audio to go out via RIGHT ear if that makes sense.

 

 

Oh and by the way, I forgot to mention this originally, I do only wear one headphone and not My left one, lol :3 I know that's a bit weird thing that people do but meh. Not that it matters much but still, just thought I'd mention it.

[vanished]

2 hours ago, Xiauj said:

@Ryan_Vickers Hey, so umm..... I've just discovered something whilst after finishing doing something earlier IRL, lol.

 

So, I plugged the 3.5mm>1.4"(6.35mm) cable into a LG-Monitor over to the Audio-mixer and straight into Channel 2 (Again, please refer to the image above to refresh Your memory of what the mixer looks like etc.) which is attached to My UDOO_BOLT_V8 SBC with UBUNTU installed and when I did, I loaded up a YouTube Video for testing the audio and Oh My God............  My ears were in agony. The audio sounded very echo-y/squeaky and some on loud, deep-bass-y songs because that's what I tend to listen too, the lyrics were kinda like, "at the back of the song" if You see what I mean. Like, I can hear more of the song itself than I can the actual human-lyrics when they kick into place.

 

Whilst still listening to it, I had decided to check the settings. The balance is default as fully expected aka: Split equally between LEFT ear and RIGHT ear.

I changed it so that all the audio goes to the RIGHT ear and that makes everything sound great  Is that intended? Does this mean that 1.4"(6.35mm) is like, too much power? Or the wrong type/format? Or something maybe? I'm sooo confused lol.

 

Also today I learned: UBUNTU grants You an option to over-amplify audio which exceeds 100% which I had never knew about. I don't know if Windows 10 can do this or not.

 

Also another thing I learned: From what I can tell in the PS4-Settings, You can't specify the audio to go in a 'specific direction' if You see what I mean. I don't think You can at least. So for example, I can't say that I want all audio to go out via RIGHT ear if that makes sense.

 

 

Oh and by the way, I forgot to mention this originally, I do only wear one headphone and not My left one, lol :3 I know that's a bit weird thing that people do but meh. Not that it matters much but still, just thought I'd mention it.

This is sounding more and more like I'm right, that you're sending an unbalanced stereo TRS cable into a port that expects balanced mono.  In such an event, the two channels, when played simultaneously, will cancel each other, resulting in you only hearing what's on the left or right, and none of what would have been centred.  Additionally, if you were to play only one channel or the other, it would likely sound normal.

[Xiauj]

29 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

This is sounding more and more like I'm right, that you're sending an unbalanced stereo TRS cable into a port that expects balanced mono.  In such an event, the two channels, when played simultaneously, will cancel each other, resulting in you only hearing what's on the left or right, and none of what would have been centred.  Additionally, if you were to play only one channel or the other, it would likely sound normal.

Hmm... interesting o.o 

 

I have a question and this might sound really stupid of Me, but, here it goes....  and apologies if I'm making it sound more complicated than it needs to be: 

 

Is "Balanced Mono" the best type / the only type of audio quality? Or is there another superior type(s)..? That's partially why I swapped over to 1.4"(6.35mm) because I just assumed its better in audio quality as opposed to Stereo RCA so that it can help the user (Aka Me) hear very little extra details in things like video-games/films/etc. what You wouldn't normally hear as much of.

 

 

Edit: I thought 1.4"(6.35mm) wasn't mono / regular audio input, more like a higher grade audio type for better quality audio overall.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Xiauj
Extra info

[vanished]

13 minutes ago, Xiauj said:

Hmm... interesting o.o 

 

I have a question and this might sound really stupid of Me, but, here it goes....  and apologies if I'm making it sound more complicated than it needs to be: 

 

Is "Balanced Mono" the best type / the only type of audio quality? Or is there another superior type(s)..? That's partially why I swapped over to 1.4"(6.35mm) because I just assumed its better in audio quality as opposed to Stereo RCA so that it can help the user (Aka Me) hear very little extra details in things like video-games/films/etc. what You wouldn't normally hear as much of.

 

 

Edit: I thought 1.4"(6.35mm) wasn't mono / regular audio input, more like a higher grade audio type for better quality audio overall.

1/4" is just the name for the plug, like RCA, XLR, etc.  The connector itself doesn't have any inherent impact on quality.  The wire might, if it's of a poor quality and very long, but generally these fears are overblown when it comes to a consumer home setup.  Where it comes into play is recording studios and on stage where minimizing noise is more important, particularly because the runs can be 20+ ft long with ease.  One way this is done is using balanced connections.  The requires that the output and input both are producing and expecting a balanced signal.  You can't mix unbalanced and balanced.  Balanced means splitting the signal in half, inverting one of them, and then sending it over a 3 connector cable, then at the other end, one is re-inverted, and they are added back together.  This has the effect that any noise picked up along the way is effectively cancelled out.  A traditional 2 wire unbalanced connection has no means of doing this.

 

If you are using consumer grade sound equipment, like your monitor, for a source, it is only going to be able to provide an unbalanced output.  That means that if you want to run it into the mixer, you must connect it into an unbalanced port.  This means either using the RCA, which are inherently and unavoidable unbalanced, or splitting it into two TS 1/4" plugs that each go into one of your mono channels, and then panning them left and right.  If you take a TRS 1/4" that could carry either unbalanced stereo, like what your monitor produces, and plug it into the mixer which is expecting balanced mono, you'll get the effect I described above.

[Xiauj]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

One way this is done is using balanced connections.  The requires that the output and input both are producing and expecting a balanced signal.  You can't mix unbalanced and balanced.  Balanced means splitting the signal in half, inverting one of them,

Ahhh that's probably why I'm confused. I figured any type of cable conversion(s) wouldn't conflict but now I guess I'm wrong  Thanks for that bit of info, good to know! This must be what was causing the awful sounding audio-quality that I described a few comments up ^ aka when I plugged it into My UDOO_BOLT_V8 SBC.

Spoiler

3 hours ago, Xiauj said:

So, I plugged the 3.5mm>1.4"(6.35mm) cable into a LG-Monitor over to the Audio-mixer and straight into Channel 2 (Again, please refer to the image above to refresh Your memory of what the mixer looks like etc.) which is attached to My UDOO_BOLT_V8 SBC with UBUNTU installed and when I did, I loaded up a YouTube Video for testing the audio and Oh My God............  My ears were in agony. The audio sounded very echo-y/squeaky and some on loud, deep-bass-y songs because that's what I tend to listen too, the lyrics were kinda like, "at the back of the song" if You see what I mean. Like, I can hear more of the song itself than I can the actual human-lyrics when they kick into place.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

or splitting it into two TS 1/4" plugs that each go into one of your mono channels, and then panning them left and right.  If you take a TRS 1/4" that could carry either unbalanced stereo, like what your monitor produces, and plug it into the mixer which is expecting balanced mono, you'll get the effect I described above.

I think I understand what You mean now. Maybe. 

So hypothetically, if I wanted to do this which I probably won't because I use only My RIGHT Headphone as mentioned, do You mean using a "TRS-Cable" splitting LEFT for Channel-1 and RIGHT for Channel-2...? I don't see how this could potentially work though and I have no idea what a TRS Cable looks like but apparently it looks like this, correct?: 

Spoiler

1x-1.4"   changing over to   2x-1.4" which I assume means Left And Right.

 

I don't see how it could potentially work as mentioned because no PCs I'm pretty sure don't have a 1.4" Audio-Out Port on their appropriate motherboard-IO's, only 3.5mm  I mean yeah ok sure, a 3.5mm>1.4" adapter would work but like, adapters aren't that great I thought, lol.

 

[vanished]

13 minutes ago, Xiauj said:

Ahhh that's probably why I'm confused. I figured any type of cable conversion(s) wouldn't conflict but now I guess I'm wrong  Thanks for that bit of info, good to know! This must be what was causing the awful sounding audio-quality that I described a few comments up ^ aka when I plugged it into My UDOO_BOLT_V8 SBC.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I think I understand what You mean now. Maybe. 

So hypothetically, if I wanted to do this which I probably won't because I use only My RIGHT Headphone as mentioned, do You mean using a "TRS-Cable" splitting LEFT for Channel-1 and RIGHT for Channel-2...? I don't see how this could potentially work though and I have no idea what a TRS Cable looks like but apparently it looks like this, correct?: 

  Hide contents

1x-1.4"   changing over to   2x-1.4" which I assume means Left And Right.

 

I don't see how it could potentially work as mentioned because no PCs I'm pretty sure don't have a 1.4" Audio-Out Port on their appropriate motherboard-IO's, only 3.5mm  I mean yeah ok sure, a 3.5mm>1.4" adapter would work but like, adapters aren't that great I thought, lol.

 

Yeah, if you want to use 1/4", that's what you'll need because you have an unbalanced signal so you need to split it into two unbalanced monos, each of which can go into one of the mono channels on the mixer.  However, since you already have everything you need to just use RCA, I would suggest simply doing that.  The only advantage to 1/4" would be if you had two TRS cables and used one for each channel, in a balanced system, but since your monitor isn't going to support that just stick to the basics.

 

btw TRS means "tip ring sleeve", and refers to the 3 wire connector shown above.  Since it's a 3 wire connector, it can be used for unbalanced stereo, or balanced mono.  The two TS (tip sleeve) connectors are 2 wire connectors and are only good for unbalanced mono, like RCA.  A TRRS which is often used in 3.5mm form to carry unbalanced stereo sound plus a mono mic (unbalanced) can be found on some headsets.

[Xiauj]

23 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

The only advantage to 1/4" would be if you had two TRS cables and used one for each channel, in a balanced system, but since your monitor isn't going to support that just stick to the basics.

So hypothetically, if I wanted to stay with 1.4" going INTO the mixer from say... My PC for example, would this kind of layout work? Just wanna make sure I'm understanding this right one last time, haha::

 

Main PC using this type of cable (Link: https://amzn.to/2klRu2E) going OUT of the PC's 3.5mm port and straight into Channels 1 & 2 on My Audio-Mixer?

I'm also a bit confused why they have labelled each 1.4" connector as black and red, I'm looking on Amazon currently and noticing that other sellers have done the same

 

Or would it still become an unequal overall balance of audio making it sound like crap? Lmao 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Xiauj
Reworded

[vanished]

7 minutes ago, Xiauj said:

So hypothetically, if I wanted to stay with 1.4" going INTO the mixer from say... My PC for example, would this kind of layout work? Just wanna make sure I'm understanding this right one last time, haha::

 

Main PC using this type of cable (Link: https://amzn.to/2klRu2E) going OUT of the PC's 3.5mm port and straight into Channels 1 & 2 on My Audio-Mixer?

I'm also a bit confused why they have labelled each 1.4" connector as black and red, I'm looking on Amazon currently and noticing that other sellers have done the same

 

Or would it still become an unequal overall balance of audio making it sound like crap? Lmao 

This would solve the problem since you'd be taking the unbalanced stereo signal and splitting it into two unbalanced mono cables that the mixer can understand, so yes it would work, but there's no real benefit to doing this over the RCA setup you already had.  As for the labels, red and white are more conventional but it's just to signify right and left. 

[Xiauj]

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

This would solve the problem since you'd be taking the unbalanced stereo signal and splitting it into two unbalanced mono cables that the mixer can understand, so yes it would work, but there's no real benefit to doing this over the RCA setup you already had.  As for the labels, red and white are more conventional but it's just to signify right and left. 

Ahhhh Ok cool, I think I'm understanding this way more clearly now. Ok cool thanks for that! Massive amount of Respect to you btw Ryan!  I really appreciate it despite My continuous amount of questions lol

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

As for the labels, red and white are more conventional but it's just to signify right and left. 

Yeah I knew about the Red and White for Stereo-RCA as You mentioned, I was talking about the Black and Red on that amazon-link ^ 2 comments above. Just seemed odd why they chose Black and Red instead of something like plain old Black for both 1.4" connectors 

[vanished]

1 hour ago, Xiauj said:

Ahhhh Ok cool, I think I'm understanding this way more clearly now. Ok cool thanks for that! Massive amount of Respect to you btw Ryan!  I really appreciate it despite My continuous amount of questions lol

 

 

Yeah I knew about the Red and White for Stereo-RCA as You mentioned, I was talking about the Black and Red on that amazon-link ^ 2 comments above. Just seemed odd why they chose Black and Red instead of something like plain old Black for both 1.4" connectors 

Well if they were both black you'd have to guess and check to see which one is left and right which would be a pain