Condenser mic too low? Is this normal?

[dazzleshark]

Hi.

 

I'm a noob with sound stuff so I have to make a post. I tried to read some of the already existing ones but I didn't feel like they helped my situation.

So I thought I could try to post my own with my own setup and see if that does anything.

 

So I used to have a blue yeti, that was extremely loud and also had that constant background noise. At some point I sold it and got what I have now. Which ended up being the exact opposite. Its very low. People on discord would have me on 10% and now they have me 200%. Everyone has to have me 200%. 

 

It doesn't feel very normal. My windows microphone setting volume thingy, is 100%. 

 

My computer is old and I don't think there is a sound card, and if there is I got no idea what it is. 

Mic is Neewer nw-700 with an Alesis multimix 4 usb.

 

Settings on the multimix are: phantom power is on [otherwise mic doesn't produce sound at all], level almost full, gain almost 0. 

Mic is at the end of my desk, as far as most people I have seen on streams etc have it so I don't think that's the problem. 

 

I am not able to have it closer cause I'd have to mount it on my desk and then any sound on my desk would transfer into my mic and deafen people. So that's not really an option for me to let's say put it in front of my mouth, nor would I probably prefer that since it's extremely uncomfortable for longer use. 

 

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is there something wrong with my settings? Or is all of this normal?  

 

Thank you for reading. Let me know if I left anything out ♥

[vanished]

You said "gain almost 0" - what exactly do you mean?  I don't see a marking for that.  Given this image below, could you mark or describe how you have the relevant volume and gain settings set?

 

Edit: If you mean that it's turned all the way down to "min", then that would be the problem.  The correct way to setup a mic in any mixer or interface like this is to turn the gain up until you get a signal but are not clipping.  Unless you need to adjust the volume of certain inputs relative to each other, or the mix overall, both "Level" and "main vol" should be set to 0 dB (not boosting but not attenuating either - strangely I see no marking for that on this unit, I hope there is a physical detent you can feel).

[dazzleshark]

20 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

You said "gain almost 0" - what exactly do you mean?  I don't see a marking for that.  Given this image below, could you mark or describe how you have the relevant volume and gain settings set?

Edit: If you mean that it's turned all the way down to "min", then that would be the problem.  The correct way to setup a mic in any mixer or interface like this is to turn the gain up until you get a signal but are not clipping.  Unless you need to adjust the volume of certain inputs relative to each other, or the mix overall, both "Level" and "main vol" should be set to 0 dB (not boosting but not attenuating either - strangely I see no marking for that on this unit, I hope there is a physical detent you can feel).

So I have marked where I have my stuff turned. The main vol and the one above it are completely turned down and not used at all, and the lights above them are also turned off. I think they are for if I have my headset on the mixer too? Which I don't ? I really don't know.

 

Sorry I'm so bad at this. 

I also have no idea what clipping means or what settings I'm supposed to have on the mixer. 

I have tried to tweak them but it seemed like there was that background hissing / constant noise any time I'd raise the gain.

 

Thank you for the response! 

[vanished]

12 minutes ago, dazzleshark said:

 

Spoiler

 

So I have marked where I have my stuff turned. The main vol and the one above it are completely turned down and not used at all, and the lights above them are also turned off. I think they are for if I have my headset on the mixer too? Which I don't ? I really don't know.

 

Sorry I'm so bad at this. 

I also have no idea what clipping means or what settings I'm supposed to have on the mixer. 

I have tried to tweak them but it seemed like there was that background hissing / constant noise any time I'd raise the gain.

 

Thank you for the response! 

 

 

Ah, each unit is different so it's hard to know.  If you've found it still produces sound with the main all the way down then yes, that's just being used for the Main Out 1/4" ports most likely.  It's possible the VU meter (lights) are "post fader", meaning they will indicate the actual output volume, as set by Main VOL, rather than what's internally "available", regardless of that setting.  If that's the case, you should be able to turn up Main VOL to see them light up, provided the signal is high enough (which is our goal).  If I'm right and it does indeed work like this, you should see the bottom two green lights come on when you speak at a reasonable volume into the mic, once the gain is set correctly.

 

The headphone volume knob above Main VOL would be for those (headphones), if you have any plugged in.  If not it's not important.

 

As for the gain knobs, as I suspected, that looks far lower than I would think it needs.  You said it tends to hiss a lot when turned up?  That could be a result of many things, including the mic itself not being very high end, or the amps in this interface not being very high end.  Either way, that's really your only option for more volume though.  Trying to boost it later in Windows would also create hiss because you're amplifying the signal digitally - think optical zoom vs cropping ("digital zoom"), if you're familiar with a bit of photography.  For that reason, I would try not to worry and just go with it.  Try experimenting with different combinations of more gain and less "level", and vise versa - these things are often non-linear so there might be a sweetspot in terms of signal to noise ratio.

 

You could also try turning down the "HI" eq knob.  it says it affects 10 kHz, which is high enough that it should have a significant impact on hiss while having a much less noticeable impact on your voice, so perhaps you can salvage it that way.  While you're at it, feel free to press the "HPF" (high pass filter) button.  This will reduce or eliminate low bass tones like rumble from bumping the desk without affecting your voice (unless it's very deep!)

 

Clipping means the signal has been amplified so much that it exceeds the intended volume range and becomes distorted.  If that happens, you can and should turn gain and/or other volumes down.

[theonlyratatoskr]

Let's simplify this a little more...

 

Gain controls how much voltage power is given to the mic. Essentially, more gain = more volume.

 

Clipping is when a signal is arriving to the unit too loud, and it distorts. Red light = bad.

 

Once the Gain is set just below clipping, then set the Level. This is an actual volume knob.

 

EQ section

If your voice is too harsh sounding in high frequencies, adjust the 'Hi' knob. Likewise for the 'Lo' knob.

 

Master/Outputs

The colorful LEDs (the meter) on the right are (in most mixers) wired to indicate volume of the MAIN outputs, which you are not using, correct? I would suggest turning the master on anyway so you can visualize what is being recorded.

 

Turn the headphone knob up to taste.

 

Set up

Finally, would you send an image of your set up? Is the only difference that you're using a dedicated mic AND mixer for you session instead of only the USB Yeti from before?

 

Interface yes or no?

Also, is your signal path mixer headphone out and then into your computer's mic port? or, do you have an interface? (an interface [again, very basically] is something that converts analog signal like your microphone's, to digital so the computer can understand it because it only understands 1s and 0s)

[dazzleshark]

16 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Ah, each unit is different so it's hard to know.  If you've found it still produces sound with the main all the way down then yes, that's just being used for the Main Out 1/4" ports most likely.  It's possible the VU meter (lights) are "post fader", meaning they will indicate the actual output volume, as set by Main VOL, rather than what's internally "available", regardless of that setting.  If that's the case, you should be able to turn up Main VOL to see them light up, provided the signal is high enough (which is our goal).  If I'm right and it does indeed work like this, you should see the bottom two green lights come on when you speak at a reasonable volume into the mic, once the gain is set correctly.

 

Just spoke in the mic and turned up the main vol knob. It essentially shows me how high my voice went. With me kinda being loud with the mic right in front of my mouth, and the main vol full it only reaches the middle ones. Never went red. So that's cool. Never knew that did anything. lol ! 

 

To prove how much dumber I am than I thought the mic was also turned to the side not the front where it takes the sound from, so I sounded more far away and more quiet than if I just turned the mic kinda.... wow

 

16 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 

Clipping means the signal has been amplified so much that it exceeds the intended volume range and becomes distorted.  If that happens, you can and should turn gain and/or other volumes down.

Yea the mic doesn't seem to ever go over the middle lights so I doubt there will be clipping except if I suddenly scream for some reason XD 

[vanished]

4 minutes ago, dazzleshark said:

 

Just spoke in the mic and turned up the main vol knob. It essentially shows me how high my voice went. With me kinda being loud with the mic right in front of my mouth, and the main vol full it only reaches the middle ones. Never went red. So that's cool. Never knew that did anything. lol ! 

 

To prove how much dumber I am than I thought the mic was also turned to the side not the front where it takes the sound from, so I sounded more far away and more quiet than if I just turned the mic kinda.... wow

 

Yea the mic doesn't seem to ever go over the middle lights so I doubt there will be clipping except if I suddenly scream for some reason XD 

Ah, yes, speaking into the back of a cardioid mic is not the best setup   No worries, we all have to learn these things some time.

So, is that working now?  Between the gain increase and the mic re-positioning, are you getting the volumes you'd like, or is there still an issue?

Also in response to the above, your headphones are running off the PC directly, and you're just using this mixer/interface for the mic, correct?  And you have it plugged in using USB?

[dazzleshark]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Ah, yes, speaking into the back of a cardioid mic is not the best setup   No worries, we all have to learn these things some time.

So, is that working now?  Between the gain increase and the mic re-positioning, are you getting the volumes you'd like, or is there still an issue?

I'm not exactly sure since I'd need someone who has heard it before to tell me if there is a difference in a call or something. It's kinda hard to tell on my own. But it definitely seems like a better idea  to have the mic pointed the right way, and to have some levels changed.

 

I don't enjoy the hissing sound at all, used to have that issue with the yeti and I hated my life. 

 

The one thing I don't seem to understand still is why some mics sound like the background sounds or keyboard / mouse don't exist in the room and for me u can hear my whole family and stray dogs barking from outside XD 

 

Like I guess it's the better mics? Which then makes me wonder how tf do you know a mic is better and how do you choose mics cause Idk anything about them and I get confused with the numbers / specs. 

 

I will keep changing stuff around until I am happy with it I guess

[vanished]

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

I'm not exactly sure since I'd need someone who has heard it before to tell me if there is a difference in a call or something. It's kinda hard to tell on my own. But it definitely seems like a better idea  to have the mic pointed the right way, and to have some levels changed.

You could grab a free program like Audacity and record yourself to get some sense of the levels the computer is receiving.  If the waveform looks pretty big, you're likely in a good situation.  If it's a thin line then there's more we could do.

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

I don't enjoy the hissing sound at all, used to have that issue with the yeti and I hated my life. 

Yeah it's definitely annoying and some people will spend thousands of dollars on gear to avoid it Although I've never found the hiss with my yeti to be particularly bad or noticeable, especially at minimum gain, and especially for just voice chatting.  If it was a professional studio that's one thing but in these situations we can accept a bit of that and just "gate" it out (the software will mute your mic when you're not speaking automatically so people don't constantly listen to your hiss)

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

The one thing I don't seem to understand still is why some mics sound like the background sounds or keyboard / mouse don't exist in the room and for me u can hear my whole family and stray dogs barking from outside XD 

There's a few factors to this.  For one, "dynamic" mics tend to pick up only what's near them, while condenser mics like the one you have now, as well as the Yeti, pick up more of the room.  Beyond that though, and perhaps more significantly, if you have it far away from you and are turning up the volume to compensate, you become part of the room noise and it hears it all.  If you get right up close to the mic, you will be very loud to it and so you can turn the volume down, and with it, all the background sounds.

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

Like I guess it's the better mics? Which then makes me wonder how tf do you know a mic is better and how do you choose mics cause Idk anything about them and I get confused with the numbers / specs. 

There are review sites you can go to just like with anything, but as a rule of thumb you get what you pay for.  A $300 mic will sound better than a $100, which sounds better than a $30.  It's up to you to decide what's worth it though - there are definitely diminishing returns on the high end, as with anything.

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

I will keep changing stuff around until I am happy with it I guess

Good idea, it never hurts to experiment.  You can learn a lot and it's free since you already have all the stuff

[dazzleshark]

20 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

Once the Gain is set just below clipping, then set the Level. This is an actual volume knob.

Well, how does one know the gain is set below clipping? I guess I change it around and speak to see where it freaks out? Issue is the moment the gain goes to like the middle of the knob the hissing is pretty loud. Then to counteract that I need to put the level down. 

 

some examples of combinations that work without me hearing the hissing. 

the problem is changing around through them is confusing me and idk if they have any difference in the end on what my voice output is

 

20 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

Master/Outputs

The colorful LEDs (the meter) on the right are (in most mixers) wired to indicate volume of the MAIN outputs, which you are not using, correct? I would suggest turning the master on anyway so you can visualize what is being recorded.

I've been using this now to see how high my voice goes.

 

The mixer is only being used for my mic so I guess that makes things pretty straight forward

 

20 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

Set up

Finally, would you send an image of your set up? Is the only difference that you're using a dedicated mic AND mixer for you session instead of only the USB Yeti from before?

The yeti is gone and I'm using the 2 products that I listed in my first post. The mixer from the picture is the one I have and then I have an xlr cable or w/e that thicc one is, going to the mic. And the mixer is connected to my pc. 

20 minutes ago, theonlyratatoskr said:

Interface yes or no?

Also, is your signal path mixer headphone out and then into your computer's mic port? or, do you have an interface? (an interface [again, very basically] is something that converts analog signal like your microphone's, to digital so the computer can understand it because it only understands 1s and 0s)

 

I have no clue what you just asked me but here is a pic. 

[dazzleshark]

13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

You could grab a free program like Audacity and record yourself to get some sense of the levels the computer is receiving.  If the waveform looks pretty big, you're likely in a good situation.  If it's a thin line then there's more we could do.

What is this considered? I didn't mess with any settings just default audacity and hit record. 

13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah it's definitely annoying and some people will spend thousands of dollars on gear to avoid it

I might end up being one of those people. 

13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Although I've never found the hiss with my yeti to be particularly bad or noticeable, especially at minimum gain, and especially for just voice chatting.  If it was a professional studio that's one thing but in these situations we can accept a bit of that and just "gate" it out (the software will mute your mic when you're not speaking automatically so people don't constantly listen to your hiss)

I hated the yeti. But I think mine might've been defective idek. Like other people seem to be fine with it. The buttons on my yeti didn't work but I didn't bother returning it because I could control it from the computer. [or so I thought] Might be why mine had such bad background sound / hissing or w/e u call that. 

13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

There's a few factors to this.  For one, "dynamic" mics tend to pick up only what's near them, while condenser mics like the one you have now, as well as the Yeti, pick up more of the room.  Beyond that though, and perhaps more significantly, if you have it far away from you and are turning up the volume to compensate, you become part of the room noise and it hears it all.  If you get right up close to the mic, you will be very loud to it and so you can turn the volume down, and with it, all the background sounds.

I tried that before and then except the fact that any time I moved my arms / hands I'd slap the mic, I also couldn't scream at all, or be loud cause people would go deaf AND idk  it's messy. Then I see people have it across the room and we cant hear their keyboard which is between them and the mic and I go insane. 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

What is this considered? I didn't mess with any settings just default audacity and hit record. 

I'd say that's a very quiet signal, barely picking up at all.  I would increase the gain and/or volume quite a bit more.

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

I tried that before and then except the fact that any time I moved my arms / hands I'd slap the mic, I also couldn't scream at all, or be loud cause people would go deaf AND idk  it's messy. Then I see people have it across the room and we cant hear their keyboard which is between them and the mic and I go insane. 

I can't help you with the slapping, but the screaming problem can be solved with a compressor + make-up gain, but that's a whole other can of worms for another day I think

[dazzleshark]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'd say that's a very quiet signal, barely picking up at all.  I would increase the gain and/or volume quite a bit more.

 

mixer settings for this are: 

 

I literally just drank water and heard myself swallow..lol

also the hissing sound here is driving me insane. 

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I can't help you with the slapping, but the screaming problem can be solved with a compressor + make-up gain, but that's a whole other can of worms for another day I think

lol

[dazzleshark]

note: also in those like louder moments the mixer hit red this time. 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

note: also in those like louder moments the mixer hit red this time. 

Yup, that's much louder, a bit too much though, so just back it off a bit and you should be good.  Next time you get a chance you can workout with the other people in your call what volume they like and expect, but at least now you can get a sense on your own as well, and you know how to adjust it up and down when the time comes

[dazzleshark]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yup, that's much louder, a bit too much though, so just back it off a bit and you should be good.  Next time you get a chance you can workout with the other people in your call what volume they like and expect, but at least now you can get a sense on your own as well, and you know how to adjust it up and down when the time comes

so in this case, where I'm unhappy with the hissing and its a bit too loud, what knob would it be best to adjust it from? or both? 

 

i literally can hear my mom from the kitchen :c

 

so it seems like this mic is better for having it in my face to avoid such things huh?

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, dazzleshark said:

so in this case, where I'm unhappy with the hissing and its a bit too loud, what knob would it be best to adjust it from? or both? 

I'd back the gain off a bit, but it could be the volume as well if that was turned up beyond 0 dB.  I can't tell since there aren't any markings (which seems very odd to me but that's another story).

As for the hissing, try turning down the "HI" knob in the EQ section.  Your voice will be a bit less clear but hopefully it will reduce hiss a lot.

 

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

so it seems like this mic is better for having it in my face to avoid such things huh?

And yes, all mics will do better at picking up you and not the surroundings when you can get closer to them

[dazzleshark]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'd back the gain off a bit, but it could be the volume as well if that was turned up beyond 0 dB.  I can't tell since there aren't any markings (which seems very odd to me but that's another story).

rip 

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

As for the hissing, try turning down the "HI" knob in the EQ section.  Your voice will be a bit less clear but hopefully it will reduce hiss a lot.

It actually does seem to turn down hissing but it also kinda changes the sound of things. like for example my keyboard sounds more deep clicky than high pitched clicky which makes sense. doesnt seem to affect voices too much. so thats cool i guess

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

And yes, all mics will do better at picking up you and not the surroundings when you can get closer to them

how should i research for a mic that sounds good from far away, but doesnt pick up bg sounds too much? like is it a type of mic that would give me that or just a different price range? 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

how should i research for a mic that sounds good from far away, but doesnt pick up bg sounds too much? like is it a type of mic that would give me that or just a different price range? 

Personally I would focus more on placement than equipment, it can make a huge difference, but in theory a shotgun mic might do what you're describing.  There's a well liked Sennheiser one for about $1000 that's completely overkill, and I don't know any others though

[dazzleshark]

tried some other settings

 

that sounded good to me, while using this feature from windows 

 

this is what it comes out as 

 

the flatter parts are when i speak normally / low, and the other ones are when im being loud. 

does this look normal? to me it sounds loud using the windows feature but idk

 

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Personally I would focus more on placement than equipment, it can make a huge difference, but in theory a shotgun mic might do what you're describing.  There's a well liked Sennheiser one for about $1000 that's completely overkill, and I don't know any others though 

sounds good lmao ill see. ive seen pokimane [dk if ur familiar w the streamer] and i like what shes able to do with her mic, but i think its around 500 or 1k i dont remember. 

 

this is also a test in audacity from my old / usual settings which still sound loud to me with the windows thing. 

there seem to be less of a difference between loud / low noises voices with them 

 

i mean using these settings 

[vanished]

1 minute ago, dazzleshark said:

sounds good lmao ill see. ive seen pokimane [dk if ur familiar w the streamer] and i like what shes able to do with her mic, but i think its around 500 or 1k i dont remember. 

I'm not, but does it look like this by any chance?

Spoiler

They are around $500 iirc.  They are quite popular, but tbh I don't know why.  They don't sound better than anything else in the price range, or even less imo, and they are quite gain hungry, being a dynamic mic and all that.

 

3 minutes ago, dazzleshark said:

Spoiler

 

tried some other settings

 

that sounded good to me, while using this feature from windows 

 

this is what it comes out as 

 

the flatter parts are when i speak normally / low, and the other ones are when im being loud. 

does this look normal? to me it sounds loud using the windows feature but idk

 

 

I would turn it up a bit so when you're loud, it nearly fills the range, but not quite.  With that said, it's likely totally fine for voice chatting.

[dazzleshark]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'm not, but does it look like this by any chance?

  Reveal hidden contents

They are around $500 iirc.  They are quite popular, but tbh I don't know why.  They don't sound better than anything else in the price range, or even less imo, and they are quite gain hungry, being a dynamic mic and all that.

dis the one. i just found it again. its 400$ on amazon.

 

[vanished]

Just now, dazzleshark said:

dis the one. i just found it again. its 400$ on amazon.

 

Ah, yeah I like those.  Again though, I think that's quite overkill.  You could improve your sound a lot by just finding a way to keep your mic close to you.  You will be able to reduce the gain a lot, which will reduce background noise as well as hiss, and you will sound clearer with less echo.

[dazzleshark]

10 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Ah, yeah I like those.  Again though, I think that's quite overkill.  You could improve your sound a lot by just finding a way to keep your mic close to you.  You will be able to reduce the gain a lot, which will reduce background noise as well as hiss, and you will sound clearer with less echo.

yeah. for now im gonna try to play with the settings and find what works best. 

 

how about these settings? 

the louder parts are me being annoying and high pitched when i stopped speaking and recorded just me sitting there, there is just a line. it looks like there is no sounds but if i play it back its full of bg sounds  is this normally how it works? 

 

 

mixer: 

[dazzleshark]

btw the mic i posted is compared with either a very similar to what u showed or the exact one. lol what are the odds electro voice re20 vs shure sm7b