stutter Major Stutters in Dual Monitor Configuration

[Crave]

Hello everyone,

I've been using Acer XF250Q Cbmiiprx monitor for a couple of months with Radeon RX 580 ARMOR MK2 8G OC and everything was fine, until i purchased CB241H bmidr, as a second monitor. Whenever there's any kind of animation on my first monitor (background picture changes to another one), the second monitor's videos stutter for 5-10 seconds and then it plays normally. When i tested both monitors in UFO stutter test, Acer XF250Q 240hz suddendly drop to nearly 150 when i open options menu with right click of mouse on second monitor, and when i change background picture to next one, it gets even worse. I've already tried completely removing and installing graphics drivers with DDU, downgrading Radeon drivers to earlier versions, changing HDMI cables/Display port cables, decreasing monitors' refresh rates. At first, the reinstallation of drivers partly solved the problem (decreased the stuttering time), but the problem still persists.

 

Also, when i was tinkering with Windows's accent color, i found out that stutters happen when you change colors or when you turn on the option to automatically pick an accent color from background picture.

I have some problems with Wattman's setting being reset every time i turn on/restart computer, but can this problem occur from an overall faulty graphics card or is it software/BIOS related?

[Turtle Rig]

47 minutes ago, Crave said:

Hello everyone,

I've been using Acer XF250Q Cbmiiprx monitor for a couple of months with Radeon RX 580 ARMOR MK2 8G OC and everything was fine, until i purchased CB241H bmidr, as a second monitor. Whenever there's any kind of animation on my first monitor (background picture changes to another one), the second monitor's videos stutter for 5-10 seconds and then it plays normally. When i tested both monitors in UFO stutter test, Acer XF250Q 240hz suddendly drop to nearly 150 when i open options menu with right click of mouse on second monitor, and when i change background picture to next one, it gets even worse. I've already tried completely removing and installing graphics drivers with DDU, downgrading Radeon drivers to earlier versions, changing HDMI cables/Display port cables, decreasing monitors' refresh rates. At first, the reinstallation of drivers partly solved the problem (decreased the stuttering time), but the problem still persists.

 

Also, when i was tinkering with Windows's accent color, i found out that stutters happen when you change colors or when you turn on the option to automatically pick an accent color from background picture.

I have some problems with Wattman's setting being reset every time i turn on/restart computer, but can this problem occur from an overall faulty graphics card or is it software/BIOS related?

Can I ask what version of Windows 10 your running.  The 1809 had a lot of issues and they kept delaying it even tho they released it publicly.  Your problem is a OS / hardware issue.  Or if you have the May update 1903 then that can cause this weird sh*T to happen.  You can blame it on uncle billy.  I want to know was there ever a time both displays worked flawlessly ?  Or has it been this way from beginning?

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Crave said:

Hello everyone,

I've been using Acer XF250Q Cbmiiprx monitor for a couple of months with Radeon RX 580 ARMOR MK2 8G OC and everything was fine, until i purchased CB241H bmidr, as a second monitor. Whenever there's any kind of animation on my first monitor (background picture changes to another one), the second monitor's videos stutter for 5-10 seconds and then it plays normally. When i tested both monitors in UFO stutter test, Acer XF250Q 240hz suddendly drop to nearly 150 when i open options menu with right click of mouse on second monitor, and when i change background picture to next one, it gets even worse. I've already tried completely removing and installing graphics drivers with DDU, downgrading Radeon drivers to earlier versions, changing HDMI cables/Display port cables, decreasing monitors' refresh rates. At first, the reinstallation of drivers partly solved the problem (decreased the stuttering time), but the problem still persists.

 

Also, when i was tinkering with Windows's accent color, i found out that stutters happen when you change colors or when you turn on the option to automatically pick an accent color from background picture.

I have some problems with Wattman's setting being reset every time i turn on/restart computer, but can this problem occur from an overall faulty graphics card or is it software/BIOS related?

There's three possibilities here off hand:

 

1) Are you using the GPU HDMI/DP ports and not the iGPU?

2) Are you on WIndows 10 1903?

3) Do these monitors have different refresh rates.

 

There is a significant change in how Windows 10 1903 handles multimonitor support, which also causes various software-GPU solutions (eg Displaylink) to not work as intended. 

 

A 1080p game at 240hz is like having a 4K game at 60hz. That CB241H is only a 60hz TN panel. The Acer XF250Q is a 240hz TN panel.

 

Assuming you plugged both monitors into the GPU and are running in desktop extension, not clone mode, there should be no problem at all, however because the monitors don't run at the same frame rate, you're probably peaking the GPU's capability. Think of it this way, you need the GPU power to run 5 1080p screens to do what you want. None of the major FPS games are capable of doing more than 120fps with this card, with most hitting 90fps at maximum detail. So my suggestion here is that by having the extra monitor attached, you're incurring a minimum 20% performance knock down, even if nothing is running on that monitor.

 

My suggestion here would be that you disable that monitor when playing games, otherwise another option would be (if you have an intel system), to put that monitor on the iGPU, so it's not consuming resources of the main GPU, but this comes with it's own consequences (see point 2) where if you drag a game window to the iGPU monitor, it is STILL running on the main GPU, and now also consuming resources on the iGPU. Likewise in reverse.

 

How Windows works, at least prior to 1903, is whatever monitor the game starts on, is the GPU it will use, even if you switch monitors. For software like games and AutoCAD and such, this means you must have the primary monitor be on the performance GPU. As of 1903, there's supposed to be some handoff that allows software to be launched on any monitor to always use the performance GPU unless specified otherwise (eg in task manager)

 

What you can do, if you have the iGPU option, is force non-gaming software to use the iGPU instead so that it doesn't drag it down. If there is nothing running on the second monitor, just physically turn it off, and it will be disconnected from the monitor array unless the GPU is told to ignore the shutdown state.

 

[Crave]

2 hours ago, Turtle Rig said:

Can I ask what version of Windows 10 your running.  The 1809 had a lot of issues and they kept delaying it even tho they released it publicly.  Your problem is a OS / hardware issue.  Or if you have the May update 1903 then that can cause this weird sh*T to happen.  You can blame it on uncle billy.  I want to know was there ever a time both displays worked flawlessly ?  Or has it been this way from beginning?

I'm using Window 1903, 183622.295 build.

 

Unfortunately, i don't know. The only thing i know is that at one point, when i was watching something on YouTube, i felt that the frame was kinda slow. At first, i didn't care much about it, but after a while, my curiosity took over me and i started to check it.

 

Edit: Should i try to reinstall the whole Windows?

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

There's three possibilities here off hand:

 

1) Are you using the GPU HDMI/DP ports and not the iGPU?

2) Are you on WIndows 10 1903?

3) Do these monitors have different refresh rates.

 

There is a significant change in how Windows 10 1903 handles multimonitor support, which also causes various software-GPU solutions (eg Displaylink) to not work as intended. 

 

A 1080p game at 240hz is like having a 4K game at 60hz. That CB241H is only a 60hz TN panel. The Acer XF250Q is a 240hz TN panel.

 

Assuming you plugged both monitors into the GPU and are running in desktop extension, not clone mode, there should be no problem at all, however because the monitors don't run at the same frame rate, you're probably peaking the GPU's capability. Think of it this way, you need the GPU power to run 5 1080p screens to do what you want. None of the major FPS games are capable of doing more than 120fps with this card, with most hitting 90fps at maximum detail. So my suggestion here is that by having the extra monitor attached, you're incurring a minimum 20% performance knock down, even if nothing is running on that monitor.

 

My suggestion here would be that you disable that monitor when playing games, otherwise another option would be (if you have an intel system), to put that monitor on the iGPU, so it's not consuming resources of the main GPU, but this comes with it's own consequences (see point 2) where if you drag a game window to the iGPU monitor, it is STILL running on the main GPU, and now also consuming resources on the iGPU. Likewise in reverse.

 

How Windows works, at least prior to 1903, is whatever monitor the game starts on, is the GPU it will use, even if you switch monitors. For software like games and AutoCAD and such, this means you must have the primary monitor be on the performance GPU. As of 1903, there's supposed to be some handoff that allows software to be launched on any monitor to always use the performance GPU unless specified otherwise (eg in task manager)

 

What you can do, if you have the iGPU option, is force non-gaming software to use the iGPU instead so that it doesn't drag it down. If there is nothing running on the second monitor, just physically turn it off, and it will be disconnected from the monitor array unless the GPU is told to ignore the shutdown state.

 

1) I'm using Ryzen 1700X, so there's no integrated GPU in my PC.

2) Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

3) Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

Technically, CB241H is an IPS panel, but that doesn't really matter. Most of the time, i use it only for watching videos/movies and drawing. Play games only on 240hz display. I'm aware about the FPS drop from additional display, but i think that's not the case here. One thing is where by using a second monitor, your game starts playing at let's say 100 FPS instead of 130, another thing is where whenever your cursor goes to another display, your FPS starts to go all over the place.

[Kisai]

50 minutes ago, Crave said:

I'm using Window 1903, 183622.295 build.

...

1) I'm using Ryzen 1700X, so there's no integrated GPU in my PC.

2) Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

3) Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

Technically, CB241H is an IPS panel, but that doesn't really matter. Most of the time, i use it only for watching videos/movies and drawing. Play games only on 240hz display. I'm aware about the FPS drop from additional display, but i think that's not the case here. One thing is where by using a second monitor, your game starts playing at let's say 100 FPS instead of 130, another thing is where whenever your cursor goes to another display, your FPS starts to go all over the place.

CB241H is a TN panel, https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/UM.FB6AA.005

 

The panel type doesn't matter in this case, I just point it out because the specs say it's a 60hz panel. Can you try something? set your primary monitor to the 60hz panel, launch a game on it, window it, and then drag it to the 240hz panel and see if the effect happens there. What, in theory might be happening is that the GPU might be driving both panels at the same rate if they are windowed, and thus interacting with the window drags it down. But otherwise run the game on the higher refresh rate monitor as primary and drag it to the 60hz panel and see what happens.

 

If the effect is identical regardless of which screen the game is started on, then the GPU is clearly the bottleneck in this configuration. If the game operates at the higher refresh rate only on the higher refresh rate monitor, and doesn't jump down to 60 when it's on the 60hz monitor, then it's trying to drive both screens at 240hz, even if it only draws 60hz.

 

The consequences for that mean that having the monitor plugged in is doubling the load on the GPU, rather than 20%. So the work-around to that would be to just not have that monitor plugged in at all, or turn it off when not gaming, but that's not the best situation. 

 

However it's also not an ideal situation from the beginning, as normally you want to pair two identical monitors in multi-monitor setups to avoid stuff like this. There's also annoyances when you have mixed 4K and 1080p monitors, as an example, when I physically turn my 4K off, and turn it back on, all the windows are resized to 1080p, since that's the resolution of the other monitor that's normally turned off.

 

If you haven't tried a reinstall of Windows yet, I'd probably start there (reinstall with both monitors operating.) I'd probably just find or salvage a drive, or even use a 32GB SDXC Card or USB stick, install windows to it with your existing drives unplugged and see if you can repeat the problem. If the problem repeats itself, then the problem is in Windows, or the drivers, and not much can be done.

 

I'm not emphasizing reinstalling the OS however, because even though that is a suggestion to solve this, it's really just a crapshoot. It might not be a permanently fixable problem since Microsoft did change how 1903 does multi-monitor, and the experience thus far hasn't been encouraging.

[Crave]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

CB241H is a TN panel, https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/UM.FB6AA.005

 

The panel type doesn't matter in this case, I just point it out because the specs say it's a 60hz panel. Can you try something? set your primary monitor to the 60hz panel, launch a game on it, window it, and then drag it to the 240hz panel and see if the effect happens there. What, in theory might be happening is that the GPU might be driving both panels at the same rate if they are windowed, and thus interacting with the window drags it down. But otherwise run the game on the higher refresh rate monitor as primary and drag it to the 60hz panel and see what happens.

 

If the effect is identical regardless of which screen the game is started on, then the GPU is clearly the bottleneck in this configuration. If the game operates at the higher refresh rate only on the higher refresh rate monitor, and doesn't jump down to 60 when it's on the 60hz monitor, then it's trying to drive both screens at 240hz, even if it only draws 60hz.

 

The consequences for that mean that having the monitor plugged in is doubling the load on the GPU, rather than 20%. So the work-around to that would be to just not have that monitor plugged in at all, or turn it off when not gaming, but that's not the best situation. 

 

However it's also not an ideal situation from the beginning, as normally you want to pair two identical monitors in multi-monitor setups to avoid stuff like this. There's also annoyances when you have mixed 4K and 1080p monitors, as an example, when I physically turn my 4K off, and turn it back on, all the windows are resized to 1080p, since that's the resolution of the other monitor that's normally turned off.

 

If you haven't tried a reinstall of Windows yet, I'd probably start there (reinstall with both monitors operating.) I'd probably just find or salvage a drive, or even use a 32GB SDXC Card or USB stick, install windows to it with your existing drives unplugged and see if you can repeat the problem. If the problem repeats itself, then the problem is in Windows, or the drivers, and not much can be done.

 

I'm not emphasizing reinstalling the OS however, because even though that is a suggestion to solve this, it's really just a crapshoot. It might not be a permanently fixable problem since Microsoft did change how 1903 does multi-monitor, and the experience thus far hasn't been encouraging.

Got it. Thanks for the answer.

 

I'll test running the game while dragging it and see the results. In the meanwhile, I'll try to find some spare HDD lying around or just use a new SSD for a quick test, hope 120GB is enough for Windows with drivers.

 

I didn't know that something was changed in multi monitor configuration on 1903. Guess, there's a potential that Bill f@cked up yet again. If it's true, is 1809 stable enough?

[Crave]

20 hours ago, Kisai said:

CB241H is a TN panel, https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/UM.FB6AA.005

 

The panel type doesn't matter in this case, I just point it out because the specs say it's a 60hz panel. Can you try something? set your primary monitor to the 60hz panel, launch a game on it, window it, and then drag it to the 240hz panel and see if the effect happens there. What, in theory might be happening is that the GPU might be driving both panels at the same rate if they are windowed, and thus interacting with the window drags it down. But otherwise run the game on the higher refresh rate monitor as primary and drag it to the 60hz panel and see what happens.

 

If the effect is identical regardless of which screen the game is started on, then the GPU is clearly the bottleneck in this configuration. If the game operates at the higher refresh rate only on the higher refresh rate monitor, and doesn't jump down to 60 when it's on the 60hz monitor, then it's trying to drive both screens at 240hz, even if it only draws 60hz.

 

The consequences for that mean that having the monitor plugged in is doubling the load on the GPU, rather than 20%. So the work-around to that would be to just not have that monitor plugged in at all, or turn it off when not gaming, but that's not the best situation. 

 

However it's also not an ideal situation from the beginning, as normally you want to pair two identical monitors in multi-monitor setups to avoid stuff like this. There's also annoyances when you have mixed 4K and 1080p monitors, as an example, when I physically turn my 4K off, and turn it back on, all the windows are resized to 1080p, since that's the resolution of the other monitor that's normally turned off.

 

If you haven't tried a reinstall of Windows yet, I'd probably start there (reinstall with both monitors operating.) I'd probably just find or salvage a drive, or even use a 32GB SDXC Card or USB stick, install windows to it with your existing drives unplugged and see if you can repeat the problem. If the problem repeats itself, then the problem is in Windows, or the drivers, and not much can be done.

 

I'm not emphasizing reinstalling the OS however, because even though that is a suggestion to solve this, it's really just a crapshoot. It might not be a permanently fixable problem since Microsoft did change how 1903 does multi-monitor, and the experience thus far hasn't been encouraging.

Okay, so i tested everything out and both Dota 2/CS:GO runs on 180-220+ FPS on both displays. With VSync, it stays on 60/240 (depends, if the game even supports higher frames). I've also done some experiments, where i was playing a game (ultra settings) and at the same time playing a YouTube video on the second display and there was no stutters on both ends.

 

For now, this is just a theory, but I think that the problem is with Windows, specifically 1903. Unfortunately, i didn't find any spare HDD, so i'm going to put inside an SSD, while disconnecting NVMe and HDD.

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, Crave said:

Okay, so i tested everything out and both Dota 2/CS:GO runs on 180-220+ FPS on both displays. With VSync, it stays on 60/240 (depends, if the game even supports higher frames). I've also done some experiments, where i was playing a game (ultra settings) and at the same time playing a YouTube video on the second display and there was no stutters on both ends.

 

That's about what I expected on 1903.

[Crave]

16 hours ago, Kisai said:

That's about what I expected on 1903.

I've checked the recovery and unfortunately, i can't even downgrade to 1809, because it's way past 10 days limit... The only thing left for me is to clean install a 1809 or just deal with 1903's bullsh!t.

[Crave]

On 8/27/2019 at 6:09 AM, Kisai said:

That's about what I expected on 1903.

 

On 8/27/2019 at 11:02 PM, Crave said:

I've checked the recovery and unfortunately, i can't even downgrade to 1809, because it's way past 10 days limit... The only thing left for me is to clean install a 1809 or just deal with 1903's bullsh!t.

Sorry for the late update, but I've installed a 1607 version on a spare SSD without installing any drivers, except the ones, which Windows 10 downloads automatically, and after testing the screens with UFO stutter test/frame rate, i still see major stutters with frame drops on 240 HZ screen whenever i open right mouse click menu on a second screen.

 

This is probably not related to subject, but two week ago, when i was using a PC with my usual storage, i noticed some strange behavior from GPU. When i loaded a WattMan's profile with custom fan curve and undervolted settings for default frequencies, sometimes the whole system either stopped working or there were graphical artifacts on screen. I've tested different voltage with default frequencies in benchmarks/games and everything works fine, so the problem can't be in lack of voltage for certain frequency.