Help picking a display

[grangervoldemort]

I currently have a Samsung P2450h. Since I bought it it has had light bleeding top and bottom.

Building a new PC and renovating my room.

 

I need either two screens or one as I am working with many video, audio and images for a YouTube channel. Much file organization needs to happen which will require lots of screen space.

 

I also will be gaming for pleasure. So for this reason I don't think it's a good idea to get a say 30+ inch 1440p.

 

Will be playing triple AAA titles and older games like Frostpunk.

 

Onto the questions.

 

> Resolution

27inch 1440p vs 1080p?

I was told by scan.co.uk over the phone that getting a 2070 super or even a 2080 super will be pushed to its limit by triple AAA titles today on a 1440@120hz or 144hz display. So I thought... think about how the cards will fare in just a years time... so perhaps it's better to stick to 1080?

 

I read that text at 1440 becomes very small.

 

What is the limit at which 1080 and 1440 become inferior in terms of screen size? For example I guess a 34inch 1080 would not look good compared to a 24inch 1080?

 

Is 1440 much nicer in gaming than 1080?

I know 1440 will give me more screen estate, BUT is the text on screen too small?

 

> Refresh rate

I do like playing games like Fortnite but mostly love playing single player games from action such as COD to story driven games like Life Is Strange (can't wait for Detroit becomes human to come out on PC) to games like frostpunk.

Can't wait for Borderlands 3!

 

Apparently higher refresh rates feel smoother in all games. But I think higher refresh rates are more taxing on a GPU? So a 1440@60hz would be easier to run than a 1440@144hz or 120hz?

 

Do I need a higher refresh rate?

 

Does the FPS from a game HAVE to match or exceed the refresh rate in order for the refresh rate to 'work' or for the user to benefit from the refresh rate?

What happens if the FPS is below the refresh rate?
 

> Screen size

I am thinking perhaps it is worth buying a nice 55inch TV and putting it in the living room, then carrying my PC over there when I want to play on the big screen? Ideally I would like to run a HDMI cable from my room to the TV in the living room so I don't have to move it and perhaps an optical audio cable, but that would be many meters long and we have asbestos ceilings. Running under floors is outta the question as we have wooden flooring which has sound foam material under it.
For control I would be using XBOX controllers via Bluetooth.

 

Anyway, I thought perhaps it is best to get a 1080 display and run it in conjunction with this p2450h or just get two new same screens, and get a 55inch TV for the living room.

 

> Number of screens

I thought of getting two screens, BUT that means neither of the 2 screens will be directly in front of me, which is what I am used to and I think that would be especially bad when gaming as I would be looking at one screen at an angle with my head rather then directly in front of me.

 

Instead of having two displays side by side, I could have one ontop of the other I suppose BUT I have Logitech Z5500's which has a center speaker which needs to go either above or below the displays. With 2 screens perhaps the speaker would be too high up?

If I wall mounted the dual screens, that would free up the desk space below it, so perhaps I could then keep the speaker below the screens......

 

I wonder if a single 27inch+ 1440 would be big enough for my needs. I cannot test one of these displays as there are no stores here in the UK that just have quality screens on display AND I would need to test the screen in my room with my workload.

 

Desk space is a bit of an issue but can be resolved through renovation. My desk is this: https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/malm-desk-with-pull-out-panel-oak-veneer-00214181/

I have my PC to my right and speakers either side and one above. I am renovating my room so can possibly place the PC elsewhere; but this may prove challenging if I want to buy a case with a window that I can look into.

 

If I put the PC on the floor the window won't be visible.

If I were to add another desk to the right it won't be accessible as there is a bed there (currently I have removed the bed and just put the mattress on the floor to prepare for renovation, BUT you can see where the feet of the bed come up to near the subwoofer so you get an idea of what I can and can't do. You can see them as square imprints in the carpet in one of the photos) and I don't want to put the bed on the right side wall because it would narrow the space too much (attached are photos of how my room used to be before my first renovation and you can see the bed used to be on the right wall).

 

So if I then put the PC on a desk to the right of this current desk I wouldn't be able to reach the on/off and USB ports if I wanted a window case.

Not too keen on putting the PC on the floor as that sounds like it would gather lots of dust.

 

Photos attached

 

 

[PorkishPig]

1 hour ago, grangervoldemort said:

I was told by scan.co.uk over the phone that getting a 2070 super or even a 2080 super will be pushed to its limit by triple AAA titles today on a 1440@120hz or 144hz display. So I thought... think about how the cards will fare in just a years time... so perhaps it's better to stick to 1080?

The implication that you need a brand new ~$460 card is ridiculous. I have dual 24" 1440p 165hz monitors paired with a GTX 1070 Ti. The GTX 1070 Ti fares well at 1440p, running at 120-160FPS in games such as Overwatch, Apex Legends, and Grand Theft Auto V.

1 hour ago, grangervoldemort said:

I read that text at 1440 becomes very small.

It's an adjustment, but you will get used to it fairly quickly. I can read text very comfortably when sitting around 24" from my displays. See image below.

1 hour ago, grangervoldemort said:

I am thinking perhaps it is worth buying a nice 55inch TV and putting it in the living room, then carrying my PC over there when I want to play on the big screen? Ideally I would like to run a HDMI cable from my room to the TV in the living room so I don't have to move it and perhaps an optical audio cable, but that would be many meters long and we have asbestos ceilings. Running under floors is outta the question as we have wooden flooring which has sound foam material under it.
For control I would be using XBOX controllers via Bluetooth.

1 hour ago, grangervoldemort said:

I wonder if a single 27inch+ 1440 would be big enough for my needs. I cannot test one of these displays as there are no stores here in the UK that just have quality screens on display AND I would need to test the screen in my room with my workload. 

I think 27" monitor would be plenty for your needs. I would personally recommend a Dell Gaming S2716DGR, which retail for around $480 USD. It is a very respectable 27" 1440p 144hz (165hz overclocked via on screen display) G Sync monitor. Considering the price, I would suggest that you look on your local classifieds for a monitor like the one I mentioned. I was able to purchase my Dell S2417DG for $389.00 in 2018, and a second identical monitor used for $200 a year later.

 

Keep in mind that there are plenty of other monitor configurations you can use. I have previously paired a single S2417DG with a Samsung S24D300HL oriented vertically. See below.

(2018 Setup)

1 hour ago, grangervoldemort said:

Desk space is a bit of an issue but can be resolved through renovation. My desk is this: https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/malm-desk-with-pull-out-panel-oak-veneer-00214181/

I have my PC to my right and speakers either side and one above. I am renovating my room so can possibly place the PC elsewhere; but this may prove challenging if I want to buy a case with a window that I can look into.

Your setup would seriously benefit from a VESA mount. This which will allow you to orient your your monitor(s) in any way you want, while leaving space on the surface of your desk. The VIVO STAND-V002 is pictured above.

 

Let me know if I missed anything you would like me to address, I jumped around your post quite a bit.

[grangervoldemort]

19 minutes ago, Homeless Pineapple said:

The implication that you need a brand new ~$460 card is ridiculous. I have dual 24" 1440p 165hz monitors paired with a GTX 1070 Ti. The GTX 1070 Ti fares well at 1440p, running at 120-160FPS in games such as Overwatch, Apex Legends, and Grand Theft Auto V.

It's an adjustment, but you will get used to it fairly quickly. I can read text very comfortably when sitting around 24" from my displays. See image below.

None of those games are AAA 2019 games. Try running SOTR on your setup @ 1440p HIGH. I reckon your GPU would struggle in that game even at medium @ 1440.

Quote

I think 27" monitor would be plenty for your needs. I would personally recommend a Dell Gaming S2716DGR, which retail for around $480 USD. It is a very respectable 27" 1440p 144hz (165hz overclocked via on screen display) G Sync monitor. Considering the price, I would suggest that you look on your local classifieds for a monitor like the one I mentioned. I was able to purchase my Dell S2417DG for $389.00 in 2018, and a second identical monitor used for $200 a year later.

That screen is no longer available for purchase. My budget for new screens is around £800 for 2 of for one. Can increase budget if needed.

 

You sure one screen is going to be enough?! Right now I just added another screen from my room as I am transferring files between internal and SD Card on my Galaxy S7 phone and an external hard drive. The display is a VERY old 15 inch affair by dell. Has no HDMI only DVI and VGA. It's a screen from the PC in the other room so I am only using it temporarily.

 

Point being this 24inch is not big enough for the number of things I need open at one time. Not sure a 27 inch would fare much better though I haven't seen 1440 in action apart from a youtube video and it doesn't look like there is that much more space: (Link will take you to the exact time he shows the difference):

Quote

Your setup would seriously benefit from a VESA mount. This which will allow you to orient your your monitor(s) in any way you want, while leaving space on the surface of your desk. The VIVO STAND-V002 is pictured above.

My current stand is I guess a VESA as I can rotate the screen, tilt and move up and down. But I do want to clear up the desk space so ideally I want to wall mount but have very adjustable arms.

Quote

 

Let me know if I missed anything you would like me to address, I jumped around your post quite a bit.

Lol. Yes everything else please. Really appreciate your replies.

[PorkishPig]

46 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

None of those games are AAA 2019 games. Try running SOTR on your setup @ 1440p HIGH. I reckon your GPU would struggle in that game even at medium @ 1440.

I don't play any 2019 AAA games, unfortunately. I've heard that SOTR is intensive, but I only own ROTR, which I assume performs very different.

46 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

That screen is no longer available for purchase. My budget for new screens is around £800 for 2 of for one. Can increase budget if needed.

Odd, still available for purchase in the US. There isn't any other 27" 1440p 144hz monitor that I have used that I would be able to confidently suggest.

46 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

My current stand is I guess a VESA as I can rotate the screen, tilt and move up and down. But I do want to clear up the desk space so ideally I want to wall mounth but have very adjustable arms.

Yes, if your monitor can already tilt freely, it most probably is already utilizing a VESA mount for its stand. You should have no problem attaching it to a wall or desk mounted VESA mount.

 

Response to your edit:

46 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

You sure one screen is going to be enough?! Right now I just added another screen from my room as I am transferring files between internal and SD Card on my Galaxy S7 phone and an external hard drive. The display is a VERY old 15 inch affair by dell. Has no HDMI only DVI and VGA. It's a screen from the PC in the other room so I am only using it temporarily.

As with most people nowadays, no, one monitor would not be enough, hence why I suggested the vertical orientation of your current monitor(s). A 15 inch display would not be sufficient when exclusively paired with a new 27" monitor.

46 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Point being this 24inch is not big enough for the number of things I need open at one time. Not sure a 27 inch would fare much better though I haven't seen 1440 in action apart from a youtube video and it doesn't look like there is that much more space: (Link will take you to the exact time he shows the difference):

I can almost guarantee you that regardless of what you hear online, you will quickly adjust when switching from 1080p to 1440p regardless of the size of your monitor. You need to keep in mind that many people purchase a 21.5" 4k iMac for daily use; small displays at a high resolution are fine for a majority of users.

 

Here are some things I did not address. Please provide specific questions if I missed anything else. I've basically read your post backwards.

2 hours ago, grangervoldemort said:

Do I need a higher refresh rate?

 

Does the FPS from a game HAVE to match or exceed the refresh rate in order for the refresh rate to 'work' or for the user to benefit from the refresh rate?

What happens if the FPS is below the refresh rate?

Generally you want a stable frame rate at or exceeding the refresh rate of the monitor. If you run at 120FPS on a 144hz monitor you will still see a benefit, but if the frame rate fluctuates constantly below 120FPS you will have a lackluster experience.

2 hours ago, grangervoldemort said:

Apparently higher refresh rates feel smoother in all games. But I think higher refresh rates are more taxing on a GPU? So a 1440@60hz would be easier to run than a 1440@144hz or 120hz?

1440@60hz would be significantly easier to run, any card exceeding the performance of GTX 1070 will have no issue running any modern game at a stable 60FPS. Higher refresh rate panels require your GPU to render additional frames to be useful, severely taxing your GPU. Keep in mind, if you are running at a frame rate exceeding your panel's capability, your GPU will still render the additional frames; consuming significantly power and generating more heat.

2 hours ago, grangervoldemort said:

Is 1440 much nicer in gaming than 1080?

Yes, you will be able to see significantly more detail in games than you would a 1080p panel. This can be a significant advantage in multiplayer games.

[grangervoldemort]

30 minutes ago, Homeless Pineapple said:

Snip

Can you please read through the entire post from the start as it is not only the questions that need answering - they need answering in context of what I have written.

Thank you.

[PorkishPig]

30 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Can you please read through the entire post from the start as it is not only the questions that need answering - they need answering in context of what I have written.

Thank you.

I am answering the questions based on what I can answer. The information I have provided is all that I feel I can comfortably provide. By reading your post backwards, I meant that I read your introductory, and went through your questions as I thought of answers. This is how I approach most threads as long as yours.

 

I cannot comfortably spend significantly time on this thread, please use the information I provided you as you deem fit.

[grangervoldemort]

55 minutes ago, Homeless Pineapple said:

Yes, if your monitor can already tilt freely, it most probably is already utilizing a VESA mount for its stand. You should have no problem attaching it to a wall or desk mounted VESA mount.

The stand I am using right now is a 3rd party stand as the original Samsung one was a pile of poop and broke on its own with thew screen coming crashing down on my desk.

Quote

 

Response to your edit:

As with most people nowadays, no, one monitor would not be enough, hence why I suggested the vertical orientation of your current monitor(s). A 15 inch display would not be sufficient when exclusively paired with a new 27" monitor.

Why would I want to use my screen vertically? I'm not working with documents. I am working with video, photos and images.

Quote

I can almost guarantee you that regardless of what you hear online, you will quickly adjust when switching from 1080p to 1440p regardless of the size of your monitor. You need to keep in mind that many people purchase a 21.5" 4k iMac for daily use; small displays at a high resolution are fine for a majority of users.

Good to hear.

Quote

Here are some things I did not address. Please provide specific questions if I missed anything else. I've basically read your post backwards.

Generally you want a stable frame rate at or exceeding the refresh rate of the monitor. If you run at 120FPS on a 144hz monitor you will still see a benefit, but if the frame rate fluctuates constantly below 120FPS you will have a lackluster experience.

Surely I would want to hit a MIN of 144 FPS to benefit from the 144hz refresh rate?

Quote

1440@60hz would be significantly easier to run, any card exceeding the performance of GTX 1070 will have no issue running any modern game at a stable 60FPS. Higher refresh rate panels require your GPU to render additional frames to be useful, severely taxing your GPU. Keep in mind, if you are running at a frame rate exceeding your panel's capability, your GPU will still render the additional frames; consuming significantly power and generating more heat.

Yes, you will be able to see significantly more detail in games than you would a 1080p panel. This can be a significant advantage in multiplayer games.

I wonder then if it is worth buying a higher refresh panel in case I am able to play some games at higher refresh rates at 1440p? This is a question you missed btw. I guess higher refresh panels command higher price tags? I noticed on overclockers.co.uk that the number of available panels that are IPS (which I think is the best panel type in quality), 27inches @ 60fps @ 1440p are non existent. Here: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/monitors/by-size/27-68.58cm?ckFilters=2357-2371&ckTab=0&sSort=2

I used the 'Pro Filers'.

[PorkishPig]

37 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Why would I want to use my screen vertically? I'm not working with documents. I am working with video, photos and images.

Vertical screens can be a lot more useful than you might think. Obviously, you would be using your primary horizontal monitor when working with video and images. The reason you would position a monitor vertically would be due to the height of the VESA mount, as one monitor may be higher than the other when positioned horizontally. This would not be an issue if you purchased two identical screens and stopped using your Samsung monitor.

37 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Surely I would want to hit a MIN of 144 FPS to benefit from the 144hz refresh rate?

Of course, you're maximizing the use of your hardware. If you're running a more demanding game, however, the difference between 120 and 144 FPS is minimal.

37 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

I wonder then if it is worth buying a higher refresh panel in case I am able to play some games at higher refresh rates at 1440p? This is a question you missed btw. I guess higher refresh panels command higher price tags? I noticed on overclockers.co.uk that the number of available panels that are IPS (which I think is the best panel type in quality), 27inches @ 60fps @ 1440p are non existent. Here: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/monitors/by-size/27-68.58cm?ckFilters=2357-2371&ckTab=0&sSort=2

If you're looking to stick with 60hz@1440p, you will not have any trouble purchasing hardware that can handle it.

 

Getting an IPS vs TN panel is what will make the biggest price difference, not refresh rate. Generally, IPS monitors are superior in terms of quality, though you'll be forking your life savings for a panel exceeding 75hz. TN panels can be just as good in terms of quality, though they are a mixed bag; this is why I could only recommend the S2716DGR.

 

27" 60hz 1440p IPS monitors do exist, not sure what Overclockers UK is reporting here.

Here are some models:

• ViewSonic VA2719-2K-SMHD
• BenQ GW2765HT

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Homeless Pineapple
Removed two monitors, ignored size for some reason.

[grangervoldemort]

31 minutes ago, Homeless Pineapple said:

Vertical screens can be a lot more useful than you might think. Obviously, you would be using your primary horizontal monitor when working with video and images. The reason you would position a monitor vertically would be due to the height of the VESA mount, as one monitor may be higher than the other when positioned horizontally. This would not be an issue if you purchased two identical screens and stopped using your Samsung monitor.

That sounds sounds like an insane reason to have 1 screen vertical. A vertical screen is unusable for anything other than reading things. I can do that to my screen and I have done to see what it's like. There's a reason why screens are MUCH wider than they are long.

 

All you have to do is adjust one of the screens so the top of the screen or the bottom matches the bottom or top of your larger screen. What's the big deal with doing that? Jesus man vertical screen. You must be outta your mind.

Quote

Of course, you're maximizing the use of your hardware. If you're running a more demanding game, however, the difference between 120 and 144 FPS is minimal.

If you're looking to stick with 60hz@1440p, you will not have any trouble purchasing hardware that can handle it.

.... I asked if using a for example 144hz display would somehow be very bad if the GPU could not push out 144fps in a game (as an example)/ What would happen? Would there be tearing or anything?

Quote

 

Getting an IPS vs TN panel is what will make the biggest price difference, not refresh rate. Generally, IPS monitors are superior in terms of quality, though you'll be forking your life savings for a panel exceeding 75hz. TN panels can be just as good in terms of quality, though they are a mixed bag; this is why I could only recommend the S2716DGR.

 

27" 60hz 1440p IPS monitors do exist, not sure what Overclockers UK is reporting here.

Here are some models:

• ViewSonic VA2719-2K-SMHD
• BenQ GW2765HT

 

Those two displays seem awfully cheap having had a look at the prices and are made by cheap manufacturers. Doubt they are very good displays. A decent display seems to be around £450+.

[PorkishPig]

11 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

That sounds sounds like an insane reason to have 1 screen vertical. A vertical screen is unusable for anything other than reading things. I can do that to my screen and I have done to see what it's like. There's a reason why screens are MUCH wider than they are long.

Fair enough.

5 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

.... I asked if using a for example 144hz display would somehow be very bad if the GPU could not push out 144fps in a game (as an example)/ What would happen? Would there be tearing or anything? 

Yes, you would encounter tearing. Freesync/GSync would prevent this.

6 minutes ago, grangervoldemort said:

Those two displays seem awfully cheap having had a look at the prices and are made by cheap manufacturers. Doubt they are very good displays. A decent display seems to be around £450+. 

BenQ and ViewSonic are not "cheap" manufacturers, but the panels I listed are indeed budget-oriented. I would suggest looking at different sized monitors, given that the choices for 27" monitors are limited. I was simply proving that 27" 1440p@60hz do indeed exist, I was not suggesting you purchase either of these monitors.

[grangervoldemort]

4 hours ago, Homeless Pineapple said:

Fair enough.

Yes, you would encounter tearing. Freesync/GSync would prevent this.

Would that stop screen tearing below the hz of the display? So if it's a 120hz display and it goes below 120fps - say 60fps then this freesync or gysnc will prevent teraing?

Any other issues I should be aware of if my GPU cannot match the number of the hz?

 

Also I just realised I can't use the stand you use ( VIVO STAND-V002) or a similar stand as the back of my desk has a support panel that runs flush with the rear and sits right upflush with the top of the desk.

 

The Ikea link I sent you shows the latest version of the desk which has a cutout on that panel. Mine does not.