First time "High End" build

[TheProfosist]

I find it hard to believe that a game would use that many cores to where they benefit from a 6 core. Also the 6 core is ivy bridge vs the 4 core haswell which is a newer architecture. I guess I'm having trouble being convinced that it would be necessary. I'm not trying to flame you because I'm new to this. Do you have any references or specifics/data to back this up? Maybe I'm missing something.

Well as i said "there are only a handful of games that would really benefit from more than 4 cores". I did give a example as to when having more that 4 cores would be advantageous one example was streaming or recoding your gameplay, possibly even both at the same time. Im recommending you a IvyBride-E 4820K which is a 4 core socket 2011 cpu and requires a X79 chipset. The IPC difference between a Ivy Bridge and Haswell is less than 10% and can be made up in the overclocking headroom of the 4820K. Im not just comparing CPU's im comparing platform's, which X79 is better especially for overclocking and doing anything more than dual SLI.

That's not the point though, the point is you're spending so much money on exotic cooling for a 4 core processor, if you spent less money on cooling and a little more on the processor to get at 4930K, you will get better performance. 

 

It's not about whether it's worth the money, you're spending the same amount, it's about allocating your money in such a way that will return you the best performance.

I wasnt even recommending going with a 4930K necessarily just with the better platform as a 4770K in my opinion is rarely the best choice.

[paulsterio]

I wasnt even recommending going with a 4930K necessarily just with the better platform as a 4770K in my opinion is rarely the best choice.

 

I know, I was just saying that it's a bad choice for someone spending so much to go with a quad core and then spend a metric tonne of dollars on cooling when they can go with a six core and spend a little less on cooling for superior performance. 

 

I agree with you though, I always suggest going with LGA2011 rather than LGA1150, the cost of a high end 2011 motherboard is actually not that much higher than a 1150 board, plus the 4820K is slightly cheaper than the 4770K, so the price difference works out to be not much at all. On top of that LGA2011 has a better upgrade path (upgrade to 6 core processors), more native PCI-e lanes and more DIMM slots, not to mention that they have a soldered IHS as opposed to the epoxy glued ones that the 1150 processors have, so they will overclock better and run cooler. 

[OddlyShapedTree]

If you want a clean look drop the Optical drive, I ripped mine out a while ago.

[asusfan]

That's not the point though, the point is you're spending so much money on exotic cooling for a 4 core processor, if you spent less money on cooling and a little more on the processor to get at 4930K, you will get better performance. 

 

It's not about whether it's worth the money, you're spending the same amount, it's about allocating your money in such a way that will return you the best performance. 

Maybe the person doing this build wants exotic cooling and why not, if they can afford to do so, i would love that option when doing a new build, most people build to a budget, it looks like this builder that works in Aviation can afford to buy or make exotic components so i don't see anything wrong with it at all.

 

As far as number of cores and cpu to choose, well i have used Intel in the past and got one on my laptop, but not recently for main computer rig builds as have used AMD for a long time now i think since i had a Pentium 4. so i am sorry but i can't advice what the performance of the new Intel cpu's are.

You pretty much get what you pay for and if you want exotic and extreme build then you should get the most cores / fastest clock speed / lowest wattage use CPU you can afford.

most modern cpu's hooked up with a really good graphics card (or 2x in SLi or Crossfire) will do the job for games and most applications and softwear.

[Muphzilla]

That's not the point though, the point is you're spending so much money on exotic cooling for a 4 core processor, if you spent less money on cooling and a little more on the processor to get at 4930K, you will get better performance. 

 

It's not about whether it's worth the money, you're spending the same amount, it's about allocating your money in such a way that will return you the best performance.

  

Well as i said "there are only a handful of games that would really benefit from more than 4 cores". I did give a example as to when having more that 4 cores would be advantageous one example was streaming or recoding your gameplay, possibly even both at the same time. Im recommending you a IvyBride-E 4820K which is a 4 core socket 2011 cpu and requires a X79 chipset. The IPC difference between a Ivy Bridge and Haswell is less than 10% and can be made up in the overclocking headroom of the 4820K. Im not just comparing CPU's im comparing platform's, which X79 is better especially for overclocking and doing anything more than dual SLI.I wasnt even recommending going with a 4930K necessarily just with the better platform as a 4770K in my opinion is rarely the best choice.

  

I know, I was just saying that it's a bad choice for someone spending so much to go with a quad core and then spend a metric tonne of dollars on cooling when they can go with a six core and spend a little less on cooling for superior performance. 

 

I agree with you though, I always suggest going with LGA2011 rather than LGA1150, the cost of a high end 2011 motherboard is actually not that much higher than a 1150 board, plus the 4820K is slightly cheaper than the 4770K, so the price difference works out to be not much at all. On top of that LGA2011 has a better upgrade path (upgrade to 6 core processors), more native PCI-e lanes and more DIMM slots, not to mention that they have a soldered IHS as opposed to the epoxy glued ones that the 1150 processors have, so they will overclock better and run cooler.

  

If you want a clean look drop the Optical drive, I ripped mine out a while ago.

The optical drive is an external one. So it will only be plugged in when it is needed.

Also to reply to the rest of the comments - I have been thinking about all of this for the past few days and contemplating on what would be more "future proof" for the money. And on my quest I actually found something that is actually 99.9% future proof...

I have decided to keep my original plan on CPU/Mobo combo. So I'll be going with the 4770k & ROG extreme VI. The money I would have spent on going with the 4930k I'm going to invest into the case which is future proof. I'll be going with the caselabs STH10. I just have to wait for their store to reopen before I can build & price the case I want.

I really took your options into consideration and was heavily leaning towards the LGA2011 until I saw Intel is coming out with new chips with different sockets this year. The only thing is performance is not expected to be boosted by a considerable amount. So either option I went with would lead me to buying a new motherboard & GPU on the first system upgrade no matter which route I went with. So it makes more sense to spend more money on "future proof items like high end water cooling & a really nice case since those will remain constant (except the waterblocks). To me this makes the most logical sense. A 4770k will be about $300 cheaper than a 4930k with marginal to not much improvement in gaming. And since it's all about gaming & overclocking for ONLY gaming performance a 4930k would have been wasted cash for my needs.

Thanks for all the replys. I appreciate y'all making me reconsider and think hard about my options. I have learned quite a bit about home PC's on my journey.

[Muphzilla]

Maybe the person doing this build wants exotic cooling and why not, if they can afford to do so, i would love that option when doing a new build, most people build to a budget, it looks like this builder that works in Aviation can afford to buy or make exotic components so i don't see anything wrong with it at all.

 

As far as number of cores and cpu to choose, well i have used Intel in the past and got one on my laptop, but not recently for main computer rig builds as have used AMD for a long time now i think since i had a Pentium 4. so i am sorry but i can't advice what the performance of the new Intel cpu's are.

You pretty much get what you pay for and if you want exotic and extreme build then you should get the most cores / fastest clock speed / lowest wattage use CPU you can afford.

most modern cpu's hooked up with a really good graphics card (or 2x in SLi or Crossfire) will do the job for games and most applications and softwear.

Thanks for the support. I'm also building a "custom exotic" L shaped desk for this to sit on. The top will be either butcher block or 2 solid slabs of wood. I guess that's a good advantage of living in Alaska. Lumber prices seem pretty reasonable.

[TheProfosist]

The optical drive is an external one. So it will only be plugged in when it is needed.

Also to reply to the rest of the comments - I have been thinking about all of this for the past few days and contemplating on what would be more "future proof" for the money. And on my quest I actually found something that is actually 99.9% future proof...

I have decided to keep my original plan on CPU/Mobo combo. So I'll be going with the 4770k & ROG extreme VI. The money I would have spent on going with the 4930k I'm going to invest into the case which is future proof. I'll be going with the caselabs STH10. I just have to wait for their store to reopen before I can build & price the case I want.

I really took your options into consideration and was heavily leaning towards the LGA2011 until I saw Intel is coming out with new chips with different sockets this year. The only thing is performance is not expected to be boosted by a considerable amount. So either option I went with would lead me to buying a new motherboard & GPU on the first system upgrade no matter which route I went with. So it makes more sense to spend more money on "future proof items like high end water cooling & a really nice case since those will remain constant (except the waterblocks). To me this makes the most logical sense. A 4770k will be about $300 cheaper than a 4930k with marginal to not much improvement in gaming. And since it's all about gaming & overclocking for ONLY gaming performance a 4930k would have been wasted cash for my needs.

Thanks for all the replys. I appreciate y'all making me reconsider and think hard about my options. I have learned quite a bit about home PC's on my journey.

Why did you once again just gloss over what I said about the 4820k?

Processors outside of one generation will always need a new motherboard. This is kinda how it has worked for quite some time. There is also a good likelyhood that the successor to haswell will even need a diffferent one depending. Hell BGA will be coming along soon making it so that anytime you want a mew cpu youll need a new MB for the consumer cpus and yes that includes the future versions on the 4670k and 4770k.

[Muphzilla]

Why did you once again just gloss over what I said about the 4820k?

Processors outside of one generation will always need a new motherboard. This is kinda how it has worked for quite some time. There is also a good likelyhood that the successor to haswell will even need a diffferent one depending. Hell BGA will be coming along soon making it so that anytime you want a mew cpu youll need a new MB for the consumer cpus and yes that includes the future versions on the 4670k and 4770k.

There is very little difference between the two. I'm not overclocking just to overclock. By my research only a slight overclock will yield actual in game performance & beyond a certain point latency becomes a issue. I'm not going to reach that point. But I'm sure a 4770k will run dual monitors for light work/research and run games very well. So why would I get a 2011 when I'm not going to use it to its fullest extent? Or overclock past 4.5 at the most? I just don't see saving $30 on a GPU to spend $150 or more on a mobo with comparable features? I don't need 64g of ram... At most I would consider going 32gb which a 1150 will accompany.

Edit: I don't mean for any of this to sound condensending I'm actually pretty curious to as why I would need this stuff 2-5 years down the road. Because in a couple years a newer/better things will be out and I imagine I would need a new motherboard/GPU regardless plus DD4 ram will be out by then. As it figure 1150 & 2011 will be a thing of the past by then. Please correct me if I'm off base on this

[TheProfosist]

There is very little difference between the two. I'm not overclocking just to overclock. By my research only a slight overclock will yield actual in game performance & beyond a certain point latency becomes a issue. I'm not going to reach that point. But I'm sure a 4770k will run dual monitors for light work/research and run games very well. So why would I get a 2011 when I'm not going to use it to its fullest extent? Or overclock past 4.5 at the most? I just don't see saving $30 on a GPU to spend $150 or more on a mobo with comparable features? I don't need 64g of ram... At most I would consider going 32gb which a 1150 will accompany.

Yes there is very little difference between the processors processing power wise which is a good thing since the 4820K is cheaper than a 4770K. I never said you were but you will achieve a better stable overclock on 4820K than the 4770K for a number of reasons. Also your motherboard choice kind of says something different than what you just did as it is ASUS's highest end and most overclocking oriented motherboard and is no way needed for a moderate overclock. Latency isnt a issue with overclocking usually, especially if your running a stable overclock (24/7 under load is my definition).

A 4670K "will run dual monitors for light work/research and run games very well" if you looking at it from that route.

Why get 2011 because it allows far more room for upgrades or changes in your usage habits. Paying $100 more for a 4770K which gets you hyper theading and a slight clock increase cpu side over a 4670K is stupid to do when the 4820K is available and your getting a significantly better platform for your money along with the hyperthreading.

The reason you see a $150 increase in the motherboard is because your looking at ASUS's highest end Z87 motherboard vs ASUS's highest end X79 motherboard. In reality I dont think you need either of them since booth are made for overclocking well above a moderate overclock likely using exotic cooling. If you still want a board like that that is Socket 2011 I suggest you look at the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme instead of the ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition. Its only ~$40 more than the Maximus VI Extreme and has all the same sort oof overclocking features and the like.

Another reson would be that you mentioned 2, 3, and even 4 way SLI. A 4770K or any of the consumer CPU can really only handle 2 way SLI properly on its own without using thing something like a PLX chip which will induce latency.

The last thing I would like to mention which is off my previous topic is that your "Processor Water Block: EK ASUS Maximus VI Impact Full Board Cooling Block Kit - Nickel + Acetal" is actually a full cover water block for a motherboard other than the one that you actually have. It is for that generation's ITX board the Maximus VI Impact which I happen to actually be using in my ITX build but it will in no way shape for form get anywhere near fitting the current board you have list so I just thought id give you a heads up on that.

I am not trying to rag on you build but am seriously trying to get you a better build for your money and your current use case while still taking into mind the future as much as possible. I also have experience with this type of platform and build personally. You can check my incomplete, soon to be complete (hopefullly), build logs and see what I currently use and am building if you like.

[Muphzilla]

Yes there is very little difference between the processors processing power wise which is a good thing since the 4820K is cheaper than a 4770K. I never said you were but you will achieve a better stable overclock on 4820K than the 4770K for a number of reasons. Also your motherboard choice kind of says something different than what you just did as it is ASUS's highest end and most overclocking oriented motherboard and is no way needed for a moderate overclock. Latency isnt a issue with overclocking usually, especially if your running a stable overclock (24/7 under load is my definition).A 4670K "will run dual monitors for light work/research and run games very well" if you looking at it from that route.Why get 2011 because it allows far more room for upgrades or changes in your usage habits. Paying $100 more for a 4770K which gets you hyper theading and a slight clock increase cpu side over a 4670K is stupid to do when the 4820K is available and your getting a significantly better platform for your money along with the hyperthreading.The reason you see a $150 increase in the motherboard is because your looking at ASUS's highest end Z87 motherboard vs ASUS's highest end X79 motherboard. In reality I dont think you need either of them since booth are made for overclocking well above a moderate overclock likely using exotic cooling. If you still want a board like that that is Socket 2011 I suggest you look at the ASUS Rampage IV Extreme instead of the ASUS Rampage IV Black Edition. Its only ~$40 more than the Maximus VI Extreme and has all the same sort oof overclocking features and the like.Another reson would be that you mentioned 2, 3, and even 4 way SLI. A 4770K or any of the consumer CPU can really only handle 2 way SLI properly on its own without using thing something like a PLX chip which will induce latency.The last thing I would like to mention which is off my previous topic is that your "Processor Water Block: EK ASUS Maximus VI Impact Full Board Cooling Block Kit - Nickel + Acetal" is actually a full cover water block for a motherboard other than the one that you actually have. It is for that generation's ITX board the Maximus VI Impact which I happen to actually be using in my ITX build but it will in no way shape for form get anywhere near fitting the current board you have list so I just thought id give you a heads up on that.I am not trying to rag on you build but am seriously trying to get you a better build for your money and your current use case while still taking into mind the future as much as possible. I also have experience with this type of platform and build personally. You can check my incomplete, soon to be complete (hopefullly), build logs and see what I currently use and am building if you like.

I like your reasoning behind all of what you said. Again this is my first PC build so I am a noob but I have done a fair amount of research. So thank you for your patience in helpin me.

Thanks for the heads up on the water block. I didn't see anything mentioned in the ad but I'll take another look at it.

So I will take you up on your advise. I just needed to see a better argument for the additional cost. I guess in a few years a 4960x would not be a bad option. I'll make changes to more accurately portray my build plans tonight when I get home and hopefully tally up how much this is all going to cost.

I still think I'm going to go with case labs as well and draw out the build a little longer to cover cost. But I plan on buying parts here soon and get some of this stuff rolling

[TheProfosist]

I like your reasoning behind all of what you said. Again this is my first PC build so I am a noob but I have done a fair amount of research. So thank you for your patience in helpin me.

Thanks for the heads up on the water block. I didn't see anything mentioned in the ad but I'll take another look at it.

So I will take you up on your advise. I just needed to see a better argument for the additional cost. I guess in a few years a 4960x would not be a bad option. I'll make changes to more accurately portray my build plans tonight when I get home and hopefully tally up how much this is all going to cost.

I still think I'm going to go with case labs as well and draw out the build a little longer to cover cost. But I plan on buying parts here soon and get some of this stuff rolling

Ok, well let me know when you update the list ill take a look and if you have any questions. I think youll benefit from spending that little bit more ~$20-$30 to upgrade platforms.

[Muphzilla]

I haven't posted in here in a little bit. I have been dealing with a death in the family & the issues that come with it. I'll be posting some pics up of my progress on the desk I'm building sometime today or tomorrow.

[asusfan]

I haven't posted in here in a little bit. I have been dealing with a death in the family & the issues that come with it. I'll be posting some pics up of my progress on the desk I'm building sometime today or tomorrow.

Sorry to hear that.

 

will be good to see the build progress.

[Sernyhough]

Get an RM1000?

[Muphzilla]

How would I go about posting pictures on here? The search only brought up stuff about cameras.

[TheProfosist]

How would I go about posting pictures on here? The search only brought up stuff about cameras.

Attach it to the post, or my prefered method upload im some where like say photobucket then imbed it using the bbcode. There may be a button too.

[Muphzilla]

Sorry google told me. So here is the beginning of the long journey ahead. Not only have I learned things about computer hardware that I have never learned, I also learned that I'm not a carpenter. Although I do have to say it came out good, the pictures did not. I hate cameras

 

Beginning raw material:

2 - 6' x 24" butcher block

7 - 6" x 1" iron pipe

7 - 8" x 1" iron pipe

7 - 12" x 1" iron pipe

7 - 1" floor supports

7 - 1" pipe caps

14 - 1 x 1 x 1/2 T fittings

28 - 13mm bolts & nuts

56 - 13mm washers

1 - 1/2" x 2" x 16" wood plank

1 - 1/2" x 1 1/2" X 16" wood plank

6 - 2 1/2" wood screws

4 - 2" wood screws

3 - quarts of stain & sealer

1 - paint pan

1 - floor stain applicator

2 - foam paint brushes

? - sandpaper

1 - package of sanding drums

Grand total - $825

Hours to complete - 24

I imagine I forgot something and I'm not including tool cost because that runs into the thousands

 

[TheProfosist]

You should have countersunk the screws on top and possibly filled then in. Would jave looked better and you wouldnt have to worry about running into them.

How sturdy is that BTW I wouls kinda be surprised if it didnt have a bit of wobble as there is no support between the legs.

[Muphzilla]

The raw butcher block came with sharp 90 degree corners. I roughly rounded them all with a air tool then hand sanded for smoothness. Where the 2 pieces of the L shape meet were kept at 90 degrees for a flat finish between desk segments. I did not try to achieve a perfect round edge. I wanted a natural "knotty" feeling on the edge. I used the worlds tiniest hammer to knock indentions into the edges (see below why). After the shaping was completed I measured ad drilled holes in all 4 corners of one desk and 3 corners of the second piece of the L shape. I didn't want to have a desk leg directly in front of me.

 

As far as staining went, I suck at staining.... But I had a good experience with it and learned a lot. I stained them with a complete smooth finish then used a orbital sander to remove between 50-100% of the stain to give a old distressed look then reapplied stain. The stain I used was a stain & sealer combo. The indentions I placed into the wood allowed stain to collect and give a darker appearance in the indentions. This effect gave it a more natural look of knots in the wood.

 

I still need to get some iron pipe for the horizontal supports between the T fittings. They will need to be custom cut and threaded to the correct dimensions.

 

98% finished product

[Muphzilla]

You should have countersunk the screws on top and possibly filled then in. Would jave looked better and you wouldnt have to worry about running into them.

How sturdy is that BTW I wouls kinda be surprised if it didnt have a bit of wobble as there is no support between the legs.

It is surprising how stable it is. I was working on the second post when you saw it. There will be horizontal supports as soon as I get them made. I actually wanted the bolts to be seen. Its was all about function and ease of portability. The desk is on the second floor of my house and when I move it will need to be taken apart to get down the stairs. The bolts are located on corners that are usually not used so there is no function taken away. I came up with a cool Idea to cover the bolts with some bullet casings cut to fit over the heads. But it also allows me to do some redrawing and expand the versatility of the desk. I can always make shelves and use the current holes to bolt on another floor support on the top side and install pipes vertically and install shelving. The possibilities are endless.

 

If I were making the desk for a house I would live in for a long time then I would have made it with 45 degree joints where the 2 sections meet. But that was not possible at my current location. Honestly it is quite large. Its 6 foot by 8 foot

[Modderstech]

Well this is different. Cool

[MrRavens]

Haha, chuck in dat 1300W cause f-yo couch!!

[TheProfosist]

I looks good finish up but yes id recommend supports for the legs and possibly even something accross the length of it to strengthen the top so it doesnt sag over time.

[Muphzilla]

I looks good finish up but yes id recommend supports for the legs and possibly even something accross the length of it to strengthen the top so it doesnt sag over time.

I don't think it would sag much or at at all. It's a solid 1 1/2 inches thick and is all hard wood. However the horizontal supports I plan on installing will help prevent that. The whole desk weighs close to 275lbs.

Did you check out the updated build list? I added the 2011 CPU and motherboard along with a new watercooling block. Also I added monitors. I believe they should be a good choice.

[TheProfosist]

I don't think it would sag much or at at all. It's a solid 1 1/2 inches thick and is all hard wood. However the horizontal supports I plan on installing will help prevent that. The whole desk weighs close to 275lbs.

Did you check out the updated build list? I added the 2011 CPU and motherboard along with a new watercooling block. Also I added monitors. I believe they should be a good choice.

you never know depends how hefty what your putting on there

What did you want me to look at?