Looking for opinions

[Guest]

In my tireless search across the internet to increase, share and uphold the right information i came across a couple of discussions i was hoping to find some feedback.

In this article : https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/a-coolers-rated-tdp-isnt-relative-to-cooling-performance.3358752/

there are these two answers

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A cooler's rated TDP isn't relative to cooling performance?

This seems to be a popular question lately.

using an overclocked 7820x(140w+ tdp)

You're better off with 250W.

Here, go nuts reading this.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3755322/cooling-biggest-scam.html#21252193

Bigger TDP (If it's legit) usually offers several advantages. You have to consider:
1. Noise
2. Heat soaking. If the heatsink becomes warm, it will lose performance. A TDP of 140W means it can output 140W of heat without getting too warm.
3. Looks scary. Just joking. But bigger TDP literally means bigger size. So the airflow of the case or an extra fan cools it better too.
4. there may be more. Can't remember.

Also, your 7820X OC with the voltage set to 1.28v can draw nearly 180W under heavy load. You could go higher to 200W+ with more OC too.

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Most probably, it's padded marketing nonsense. Realize that BeQuiet is a fully commercialized manufacturer, churning out products in mass quantities, with both high and low quality products at a variety of price ranges.

Notice on the Noctua website the D15 is rated for 165w AND **OC. Likely this puts it in the 200w category. Noctua is an EXACTING manufacturing and desgin company, with no embellishments or false claims. They spend YEARS developing a particular product before releasing it onto the market.

BeQuiet has some very good products, when specific criteria are met, but they do not produce products on a similar level with Noctua. Anybody who says otherwise probably has little experience with Noctua products or does not understand fully the processes involved in product testing and how to ensure reliable results across a variety of test platforms.

The BeQuiet coolers are good. Much better than a lot of what is out there. The Noctua coolers are better quality and are designed and engineered to a higher standard.

If you are looking for maximum cooling performance, I'd suggest looking at a D14 with newer fans. It will outperform the D15 using the same fans.

https://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nh-d14-redux-modern-fans-on-an-old-heatsink/

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do we agree?

when this was the question ( for the lazy bums unwilling to open the article ... or are affraid of Dutch clickbait hookers

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his came to mind when I checked out the recently update best coolers list and noticed the dark rock 4 there. I then went to the bequiet! website for more info - specifically the dark rock pro 3 & 4. I wanted to compare them to the D-15(I mean, why not?).

So both of those coolers are rated for 250w tdp cpus, while the D-15 for 165w. But it looks like the D-15 cools better than both? Is there something I'm not aware of? Granted, the articles I read didn't test with cpus of relatively high tdp, just 95w.

So, using an overclocked 7820x(140w+ tdp), would I get better temps with one of the rocks?
Or is the 250w tdp a load of marketing nonsense?

 

 

 

 

[GoldenLag]

6 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

So, using an overclocked 7820x(140w+ tdp), would I get better temps with one of the rocks?

look at benchmarks.

 

stop calculating with intel TDP.

 

 

also why do you have the overpriced and relativly pointless skylake plattform?

[wildgg]

agree with golden here, just look up benchmarks.

 

TDP on products aren't really realistic other then it makes them look good.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

look at benchmarks.

 

stop calculating with intel TDP.

 

 

also why do you have the overpriced and relativly pointless skylake plattform?

if i look at the benchmarks both the noctua NH-U14s and the darkrock pro 4 deliver about the same performance

@GoldenLag @wildthing

you are both missing the point of the question. Why bother with asking me why i'm using a system for whatever reasons. I value your feedback on both the statements not feedback given on the system in question.

So according to @wildthing tdp is even useless and a marketseller... I have to say that i don't even want to try the 105W noctua dh-15 on a overclocked cpu

And @GoldenLag what is this comment about intel TDP ?

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

And @GoldenLag what is this comment about intel TDP ?

its a useless metric for any use. it hasnt been accurate in years for the purpose of choosing coolers. 

6 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Why bother with asking me why i'm using a system for whatever reasons.

because way to many people buy Skylake X when a 9900k or threadripper would have dont the same job better and for cheaper. 

 

rule 2: dont buy skylake X, see rule 1

[wildgg]

29 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

if i look at the benchmarks both the noctua NH-U14s and the darkrock pro 4 deliver about the same performance

@GoldenLag @wildthing

you are both missing the point of the question. Why bother with asking me why i'm using a system for whatever reasons. I value your feedback on both the statements not feedback given on the system in question.

So according to @wildthing tdp is even useless and a marketseller... I have to say that i don't even want to try the 105W noctua dh-15 on a overclocked cpu

And @GoldenLag what is this comment about intel TDP ?

there's a few factors that can impact how these companies rate the TDP of these coolers, do they fully heatsoak the cooler and then test the cooling performance? is it based of noise levels based of the fan rpm's etc...

so if you're not willing to try a dh15 on a overclocked cpu what else are you going to use? a dh15 is up there with 240/280mm AIO'S other than that you'll have to go custom watercooling.

 

oke so to come back to your question:''So, using an overclocked 7820x(140w+ tdp), would I get better temps with one of the rocks?
Or is the 250w tdp a load of marketing nonsense?''

 

the dh15 and rock4 are probably super close performance wise.

is the 250wtdp nonsense? imo it's just another selling point, it's like a GPU brand saying/having the word GAMING in the name and on their box.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

its a useless metric for any use. it hasnt been accurate in years for the purpose of choosing coolers. 

because way to many people buy Skylake X when a 9900k or threadripper would have dont the same job better and for cheaper. 

 

rule 2: dont buy skylake X, see rule 1

TDP and case heat values seem to be two entirely different values... My bet always was that most people are off with considering their entire system, as an example i have a system cooler that both absorbs a lot of heat from the cpu and the gpu because of its size. I have a 65W cpu an 120w tdp gpu and a 160W tdp system cooler.. this seems to add up nicely

Still i'm interested... I haven't been a real part of these kinds of fora's for many years .. to be honest i was a little surprised by how standard opinions seem to differ from my own experience and one of them is, again in my eyes, the blatantly naming of intels figures as useless. To me it was always clear that in day to day or gaiming use you will be at around 80% of its tdp which can easily rise with ocing.... with the calculation of the oc of an i7 920 from its base frequency to 4 ghz is almost a doubling of powerconsumption and heatgeneration rates..

Could you show me some more information on how intels tdp figures are utterly useless?

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

I have a 65W cpu an 120w tdp gpu and a 160W tdp system cooler.. this seems to add up nicely

you know the CPU cooler only cools the CPU right?

 

that there is the oddest take ive seen on cooling since forever. 

3 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

TDP and case heat values seem to be two entirely different values...

ive never mentioned case heat, and its mostly irrelevant when cooling the CPU.....

 

TDP, Thermal Design Power, is the thermal heat dissipation needed to cool the CPU.

4 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Could you show me some more information on how intels tdp figures are utterly useless?

every CPU really that is overheating even when providing an adequate. examples include 8400 and up CPUs.

 

now intel TDP isnt wrong, its just missleading for anyone thinking they need 65 watt cooler to cool the 8700 and 8400 properly. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, wildthing said:

there's a few factors that can impact how these companies rate the TDP of these coolers, do they fully heatsoak the cooler and then test the cooling performance? is it based of noise levels based of the fan rpm's etc...

so if you're not willing to try a dh15 on a overclocked cpu what else are you going to use? a dh15 is up there with 240/280mm AIO'S other than that you'll have to go custom watercooling.

 

oke so to come back to your question:''So, using an overclocked 7820x(140w+ tdp), would I get better temps with one of the rocks?
Or is the 250w tdp a load of marketing nonsense?''

 

the dh15 and rock4 are probably super close performance wise.

is the 250wtdp nonsense? imo it's just another selling point, it's like a GPU brand saying/having the word GAMING in the name and on their box.

Oke i was under the impression of tdp to be a industry standard

The earlier dh15 comment on my part seems to be false. I was in a store today looking together with one of its employees in their assortiment online. suddenly a site came forward where it is listed as a 105W TDP cooler. But if you look at how its build ... 2 140mm fans its not very different from a darkrock pro 4

 i do  have a lot of trouble with your choice of interpretations. in my book the use of the word gaming for products such as motherboards or videocards is a whole different ballgame as specifying your cpu cooler has an absorbtion rate of 250w TDP.
 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

you know the CPU cooler only cools the CPU right?

 

that there is the oddest take ive seen on cooling since forever. 

ive never mentioned case heat, and its mostly irrelevant when cooling the CPU.....

 

TDP, Thermal Design Power, is the thermal heat dissipation needed to cool the CPU.

every CPU really that is overheating even when providing an adequate. examples include 8400 and up CPUs.

 

now intel TDP isnt wrong, its just missleading for anyone thinking they need 65 watt cooler to cool the 8700 and 8400 properly. 

why do you only pick out the funny ? haven't you read the entire message?

but oke ...

thank you for explaining

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Oke i was under the impression of tdp to be a industry standard

there is a relativly good standard, intel just has a very odd way of following it. and noone likes it

2 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

The earlier dh15 comment on my part seems to be false. I was in a store today looking together with one of its employees in their assortiment online. suddenly a site came forward where it is listed as a 105W TDP cooler. But if you look at how its build ... 2 140mm fans its not very different from a darkrock pro 4

companies have very interesting ways of rating their cooler, benchmarks are allways the way to go. also not ever cooler is the way it seems on the surface.

4 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

in my book the use of the word gaming for products such as motherboards or videocards is a whole different ballgame as specifying your cpu cooler has an absorbtion rate of 250w TDP.

Thermal dissipation is something you can measure and calculate, but what companies put on the box can vary greatly. 

4 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

why do you only pick out the funny ? haven't you read the entire message?

i read the entire message, still did not make much sense. 

[WoodenMarker]

17 hours ago, wildthing said:

TDP on products aren't really realistic other then it makes them look good.

TDP can be used as a guideline to compare the products from the same manufacturer. Without benchmarks, it's alright as point of comparison. 

 

From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power

Quote

Since safety margins and the definition of what constitutes a real application vary among manufacturers, TDP values between different manufacturers cannot be accurately compared.

Don't use them across different manufacturers. 

18 hours ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

If you are looking for maximum cooling performance, I'd suggest looking at a D14 with newer fans. It will outperform the D15 using the same fans.
https://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nh-d14-redux-modern-fans-on-an-old-heatsink/

With the 1500rpm NF-A14's on the NH-D14 mentioned as the sweet spot, it's still running warmer and noisier than the stock NH-D15. 

The entry for the NH-D15 with 2000rpm NF-A14's seems strange to consider when it performs worse than the stock configuration in the linked article when NF-A14's and NF-A15's are essentially the same fans. 

It's also not consistent with most other tests that show the NH-D15 performing better with 2000rpm NF-A14's.

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/noctua-nh-d15-austrian-dual-tower/4/

https://www.hwcooling.net/en/how-sensitive-is-ninja-5-to-airflow-changes/3/

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nf-a14-industrialppc/7

[Guest]

13 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

there is a relativly good standard, intel just has a very odd way of following it. and noone likes it

companies have very interesting ways of rating their cooler, benchmarks are allways the way to go. also not ever cooler is the way it seems on the surface.

Thermal dissipation is something you can measure and calculate, but what companies put on the box can vary greatly. 

i read the entire message, still did not make much sense. 

Oke.
Which benchmarks do you seem to prefer. If i had to follow this one : https://www.eteknix.com/id-cooling-se-224-rgb-air-cooler-review/5/

 

I would come to the conclusion that the darkrock pro 4 is outperformed by the dark rock slim by quite a large factor ... at stock loads it almost perfors bettern then the liquid eisbear cooler..

And back to the point of heat ...... i have this 1060 with that special backplate which becomes very hot .. hot air rises and above the 1060 is this big big cool finnned cpu cooler.. its bound to take up heat in some way i guess... i'm not entirely sure more how it currently works because i aimed 2 120mm fans right ontop of the head of the huge coolingfin... atm i'm about 2 degrees cooler as normal

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Oke.
Which benchmarks do you seem to prefer. If i had to follow this one : https://www.eteknix.com/id-cooling-se-224-rgb-air-cooler-review/5/

any benchmarks from reputable sources are fine. 

2 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

And back to the point of heat ...... i have this 1060 with that special backplate which becomes very hot .. hot air rises and above the 1060 is this big big cool finnned cpu cooler.. its bound to take up heat in some way i guess... i'm not entirely sure more how it currently works because i aimed 2 120mm fans right ontop of the head of the huge coolingfin... atm i'm about 2 degrees cooler as normal

backplate cooling is mostly a gimmick, and if you have a well ventilated case the heat from the GPU is a non-concern. 

3 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

I would come to the conclusion that the darkrock pro 4 is outperformed by the dark rock slim by quite a large factor ... at stock loads it almost perfors bettern then the liquid eisbear cooler..

i didnt look through the benchmarks, but its not uncommon for aircoolers to trash AIOs. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

any benchmarks from reputable sources are fine. 

backplate cooling is mostly a gimmick, and if you have a well ventilated case the heat from the GPU is a non-concern. 

i didnt look through the benchmarks, but its not uncommon for aircoolers to trash AIOs. 

Those are some weird comments now ... goldenlag...

backplate cooling is mostly a gimmick ..... I mean.. i'm just saying the backplate seems to store and release absurd amounts of heat and...... calling the heat from the gpu a non concern sounds a bit outlandish

anyway i'm done and its clear now.....

clearly there is no interest in discussing the answers from another subject.

Thanks everyone for their time and invest

[GoldenLag]

Just now, Christiaan21-03 said:

backplate cooling is mostly a gimmick ..... I mean.. i'm just saying the backplate seems to store and release absurd amounts of heat and...... calling the heat from the gpu a non concern sounds a bit outlandish

Its a case ventilation concern. If you have any decent circulation lf air its fine. What can change is the ambient temps in the case. The backplate does not have anough heat dissipation nor enough heat to affect the CPU cooler. 

 

2 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Those are some weird comments now ... goldenlag...

They are, they are based on benchmark data. I found it odd you mebtioned the GPU backplate at all. Since it doesnt do a whole lot and os there for visuals. 

3 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

clearly there is no interest in discussing the answers from another subject.

What different subject? Its about CPU coolers and TDP no?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

Its a case ventilation concern. If you have any decent circulation lf air its fine. What can change is the ambient temps in the case. The backplate does not have anough heat dissipation nor enough heat to affect the CPU cooler. 

 

They are, they are based on benchmark data. I found it odd you mebtioned the GPU backplate at all. Since it doesnt do a whole lot and os there for visuals. 

What different subject? Its about CPU coolers and TDP no?

No it was actually about what someone asked and the answers he received

but hey lets talk about me

here's my system ... or atleast a picture of how it used to look some time ago

i find it weird to say that the cpu wouldn't be affected on a hot day with a very hot gpu beneath it

even if the backplate doesn't do anything the gpu card as a whole would emit 70 degrees celcius about all the time .... and especially if i use the normal stock machine cooling settings. 70 degrees is quite hot right?

i mentioned the backplate because i once had my hand above it while the gpu was running around 72 degrees and it felt like the heat was not so much radiating from the entire gpu as well only from the backplate

[GoldenLag]

3 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

70 degrees is quite hot right?

Its about heat, not temperature, those shouldnt be confused with eachother. One is about the energy and thenother the speed of which the atoms vibrate/move.

 

4 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

find it weird to say that the cpu wouldn't be affected on a hot day with a very hot gpu beneath it

Ambient temps affect temps.

 

But providing you have a ventilated case, the heat frpm the GPU doesnt do anything. If its not well ventilated tje system will continue to heat up the vase untill the components overheat

[WoodenMarker]

15 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Which benchmarks do you seem to prefer. If i had to follow this one : https://www.eteknix.com/id-cooling-se-224-rgb-air-cooler-review/5/

I would come to the conclusion that the darkrock pro 4 is outperformed by the dark rock slim by quite a large factor ... at stock loads it almost perfors bettern then the liquid eisbear cooler..

And back to the point of heat ...... i have this 1060 with that special backplate which becomes very hot .. hot air rises and above the 1060 is this big big cool finnned cpu cooler.. its bound to take up heat in some way i guess... i'm not entirely sure more how it currently works because i aimed 2 120mm fans right ontop of the head of the huge coolingfin... atm i'm about 2 degrees cooler as normal

There's inconsistency in performance and testing methods. It's better to look at as many benchmarks and reviews as possible instead of looking at just one result.

Stock loads are often not enough to stress many coolers and there's a lot more noise in the data compared to a heavier load. It's similar to how idle temps don't tell much since all of the readings are nearly the same. For more accurate comparisons, you want to look at loads that are as heavy as possible so that the temps diverge more and the coolers are easier to separate. 

1 minute ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

even if the backplate doesn't do anything the gpu card as a whole would emit 70 degrees celcius about all the time .... and especially if i use the normal stock machine cooling settings. 70 degrees is quite hot right?
i mentioned the backplate because i once had my hand above it while the gpu was running around 72 degrees and it felt like the heat was not so much radiating from the entire gpu as well only from the backplate

The gpu itself may be 70c but the card itself and the air surrounding it is far from being that hot. It doesn't take very high temps for your hand to be uncomfortable.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, WoodenMarker said:

There's inconsistency in performance and testing methods. It's better to look at as many benchmarks and reviews as possible instead of looking at just one result.

Stock loads are often not enough to stress many coolers and there's a lot more noise in the data compared to a heavier load. It's similar to how idle temps don't tell much since all of the readings are nearly the same. For more accurate comparisons, you want to look at loads that are as heavy as possible so that the temps diverge more and the coolers are easier to separate. 

The gpu itself may be 70c but the card itself and the air surrounding it is far from being that hot. It doesn't take very high temps for your hand to be uncomfortable.

Yea oke.... that is granted .... atleast i have another observation in the pocket where with a 1050Ti my gpu temps, according to the iobit system temperature scanner is almost 10 degrees lower as with the 1060 and cpu temperatures are around 3 4 degrees lower .. i should have used that example right from the bat ..  my mistake

What you are saying btw about under load is very different then the conclusion one can pull from the benchmark links i gave a couple of comments earlier

There you see that overall that eissbear extreme liquid cooler is the best solution in every situation. The dark rock slim comes out as the best aircooled choice for systems non OC and with OC systems noctua really is showing its quality

[WoodenMarker]

4 minutes ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

Yea oke.... that is granted .... atleast i have another observation in the pocket where with a 1050Ti my gpu temps, according to the iobit system temperature scanner is almost 10 degrees lower as with the 1060 and cpu temperatures are around 3 4 degrees lower .. i should have used that example right from the bat ..  my mistake

What you are saying btw about under load is very different then the conclusion one can pull from the benchmark links i gave a couple of comments earlier

There you see that overall that eissbear extreme liquid cooler is the best solution in every situation. The dark rock slim comes out as the best aircooled choice for systems non OC and with OC systems noctua really is showing its quality

The 1050 Ti doesn't draw as much power as the 1060 is much easier to cool. 

The benchmark you linked shows the DR Slim performing worse than DRP4. To look at the stock results but not at the oc'ed results which should hold more weight is to misinterpret or neglect the data.

You can see an example here from CoolingTechnique: http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1446-recensione-noctua-nh-d15.html?start=6

Spoiler

With low loads like 25-150w, there's still crossover between the coolers. As the load is increased to 150w+, the difference becomes more clear. The highest load is generally the best to look at.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, WoodenMarker said:

The 1050 Ti doesn't draw as much power as the 1060 is much easier to cool. 

The benchmark you linked shows the DR Slim performing worse than DRP4. To look at the stock results but not at the oc'ed results which should hold more weight is to misinterpret or neglect the data.

You can see an example here from CoolingTechnique: http://www.coolingtechnique.com/recensioni/air-cooling/dissipatori/1446-recensione-noctua-nh-d15.html?start=6

  Reveal hidden contents

With low loads like 25-150w, there's still crossover between the coolers. As the load is increased to 150w+, the difference becomes more clear. The highest load is generally the best to look at.

hmmmm i have a bit of difficulty with this form of reasoning but i'll try to see if i can find more comparrisons, benches and see how they perform... and test for that matter...

I'm working from a format where i'm trying to keep my cpu temps under 50 degrees as stated by iobit and everything that works in a practical sense seems to be my answer, limited ofcourse by my budget ( which is very close to 0 ) and my single build

[WoodenMarker]

10 hours ago, Christiaan21-03 said:

i'm trying to keep my cpu temps under 50 degrees

Why 50c? Temps lower than necessary don't provide any practical benefit. 

[Guest]

Just a figure i choose after noticing the cpu trottling when over 50 degrees...

i have this fear for inconsistencies in the programs i 'm running. that's why i'm trying to provide for a as stable enviroment as possible ... even if it only helps for mindpeace

Just dug in the be slim btw .... quite a nice video from be quiet!|
 

At the end it hit me... i can configure a darkrock pro with 3 fans too!  ( as is probably the same with the noctua tower models )

[Guest]

I might be continuing the test with this tower cooler from auros 

It is supplied with its own amd/intel backplate and has an tdp over 200W and .... that eagle just looks damn cool

i stay away from noctua the aorus matches my motherboard ( if i would have known about aorus its product range beforehand i would have made sure to buy their ramsticks too )

https://www.gigabyte.com/nl/Thermal-Solution/AORUS-CPU-cooler#kf