Living room PC build

[WanderingSky]

With Windows 7 reaching EOL and my 970 starting to show its age, I decided to get a new PC for my living room setup.

 

My current one is pre-built, but this time I wanted to make it myself. I have not built a PC in almost 17 years. I have never built one with an AIO. This ended up being an interesting (if sometimes frustrating) experience. I unfortunately did not take that many pictures of the mounting process. I will try to be as descriptive as possible in my rant to compensate

 

Here are the parts:

Before anyone mentions it, I know the PSU is overkill. I wanted the 650 model but it was out of stock at the time.

 

The first problem I encountered was that I planed to mount the radiator on the top of the case. When I checked the measurements it seemed to match, but the radiator actually does not fit (it is a question of millimeters). So I tried to mount it on the front panel as the PSU shroud has a hole to mount 3 fans there. At first, it did not fit. I had to remove a hard drive tray located behind the shroud to get enough space.

 

So, knowing I had enough clearance, I started mounting the fans on the radiator in pull configuration:

 

It took me way too much time to figure out in which direction the air flow goes. Every guide tells you to look for an arrow on the fan. On these fans, the arrow is only visible on one edge if you look at it at a specific angle in front of a light source. I guess I should have worked on this with better lighting... Then I tried to get the radiator with the fans in the tower. It did not fit. The bottom fan made it impossible to slide whole thing in the shroud. So I unmounted the bottom fan, mounted the radiator inside the case, and then mounted the last fan.

 

Mounting the CPU went smoothly (thank you, ZIF socket). Mounting the motherboard in the case was a bit more challenging. There are 9 screws. At least 2 of them are hidden behind a PCH cover and M.2 heatsinks. Removing them was easy. Putting them back was stressful. Nothing maintains the M.2 heatsink covers except the screws (and maybe the M.2 drive once installed, but I did not have any). So it was not necessarily easy to aim for the screw holes. I was worried of missing one and scratching the PCB the whole time.

 

At this point, I put the pump in place. It reminded me of mounting an air cooler on a Athlon XP 2600 17 years ago. Fortunately, you do not need to put as much force on it as you have nuts to put some tension once everything is in place. I honestly have no idea how to judge how much you need to screw. I decided to not put a lot of pressure here. I figured that if it did not boot I could still screw more but I could not resurrect the motherboard if I screwed too much.

 

Then I mounted the remaining chassis fans. I had 4. I could only mount 3: 1 on the back and 2 at the top. There were 3 fans mounted on the front panel that I thought I would mount on the top, but they are just too big to fit at the same time as the AIO.

 

And then came time to plug everything into the motherboard.

Fans proved strangely difficult to plug in. The motherboard has a lot of connectors 1 CPU, 1 CPU_OPT, 2 chassis, 1 AIO_PUMP, 1 W_PUMP+ and 1 M.2. So I plugged the AIO pump in AIO_PUMP and 2 of the chassis fans in the dedicated connectors, The AIO uses a sata connector so I plugged that into the power supply. I had 1 chassis fan remaining that I did not know where to plug in. The motherboard manual recommends to plug the AIO fans into CPU or CPU_OPT. So I ended up pluging it into CPU_OPT. It seems to work, but I am not sure this the best choice.

The manual was not super clear on how to plug the power supply into the motherboard. The 24-pin connector did not cause any issue, but the manual says you can connect either the 8-pin or 8-pin and 4-pin. It does not say in which context you should do what. My power supply does not come with a 4-pin connector so I googled a bit to check if it was safe to use with only the 8-pin. Most sources I found said it was only used for extreme overclocking so I did look into this any further.

 

I then mounted the GPU. That is something I have done a few times for maintenance so no problem here. It was time for a smoke test... or so I thought. This motherboard does not seem to have a built-in power button so I needed to mount the front panel first. This went relatively smoothly except that I had to remove the GPu I just mounted to have enough clearance to plug all of the cables.

 

The smoke test passed. Everything plugged in seems to run:

Cable management is a mess for now. Part of the issue is that fan cables are too short to be rooted behind the motherboard tray. I will need to get extension cords to fix this.

 

So after this I plugged the SSD, put the panels back in place and installed Windows 10. I did not have much time to play with it yet. I wanted to check temperatures so I loaded Heaven Benchmarks and monitored them with Corsair Link:

 

I run the test for like 5 minutes and stopped. I am worried about the reported temp #8 and #11. Is this normal? The graph shows #11 as stable and it does not go down when the PC is idle, I have a feeling that something is wrong with the reported values. The number of fans does not match with what I have installed and I am not sure how many temperature sensors my motherboard has.

 

 

[Bitter]

Try a couple other hardware monitor softwares like HWinfo and LibreHardware Monitor to see what they're showing.

[Kalm_Traveler]

I would check with HWInfo to see what those temp sensors actually are - "Temp #11" doesn't give you any clue as to what it is, though I'd be a little concerned myself of anything being 83 c.

[Bitter]

And even then not all temps can be trusted, especially ones that don't change with load or changes to airflow. My Asus Z87 ITX board has 3 temps all stuck at like 80-83C regardless of system load or if I point a freaking bouncy house inflator at the PC. Temps like that are likely either a poorly supported sensor chip or one that's specific to Asus that's not had any software for it released.

[WanderingSky]

Here is what HWInfo gives me:

 

I rerun Corsair Link afterwards. It gives me one sensor with a similar 91°C temperature. This is from a cold boot.

 

I noticed by motherboard had an old bios installed (1005). This version does not even support some variants of Ryzen 2... I will update to latest version (1405) to see if it changes anything.

 

EDIT: AISuite3 which I use to upgrade the bios only reports 3 temperatures which look fairly normal to me (motherboard, CPU packet and CPU core).

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by WanderingSky
More info while trying to update the BIOS.

[WanderingSky]

Well updating the BIOS did not help much and almost gave me a heart attack...

 

The system rebooted, updated the BIOS, and rebooted again: error 02.

I ended up rebooting manually after a while. I reached the BIOS menu.

I put back my configuration (basically I just set my RAM to 3600MHz) and turned of unplugged fans and T-sensor monitoring to see if it changed anything. I saved the changes. The PC rebooted: error 8d.

I rebooted manually again. This time I reached Windows. All the tools previously mentioned still report the same kind of temperatures...

 

EDIT: seems like I am not the only one with this issue...

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/rog-strix-x570-e-strange-temps.260285/

Edited February 16, 2020 by WanderingSky
More info thanks to google.

[Fraya]

I think with your CPU cooler, the fans on the rad need to be linked together (PWM 3 way fan splitter) and then into the CPU-Fan header (read manual to double check) and then the pump will be consistent (run all the time) via the CPU-Pump header. on the m/board.

also you might be better with the CPU cooling rad and fans on the top of the case and then just have 2 large fans on the front air intake (also use a fan splitter) and put them into one of your chassis fans header. 

this should sort your cooling out. 

if your CPU rad / cooler don't fit the top of the case, maybe you should exchange it for one with 2x 140 fans. 

hope this help.

 

note your GPU looks like has some sag, you should be able to get a support bracket or make one. 

the rest of the build is nice. 

 

[WanderingSky]

3 hours ago, Frayia said:

I think with your CPU cooler, the fans on the rad need to be linked together (PWM 3 way fan splitter) and then into the CPU-Fan header (read manual to double check) and then the pump will be consistent (run all the time) via the CPU-Pump header. on the m/board.

also you might be better with the CPU cooling rad and fans on the top of the case and then just have 2 large fans on the front air intake (also use a fan splitter) and put them into one of your chassis fans header.

That's interesting...

There is a 3-way splitter going out of the pump to which the radiator fans are connected. The pump itself has three connectors: 3-pin, sata power and USB. So sata is connected to the PSU, USB to a USB header on the motherboard, and the 3-pin is currently connected to the AIO_PUMP header which is "1A, 12W, full speed" according to the motherboard manual which specified to plug the pump here.

The AIO manual on the other hand says to plug the 3-pin into the CPU_FAN header. This is a bit puzzling to me as the AIO manual does not say which connector does what.

So I googled a bit... As I understand it, sata gives power to the pump directly, USB is here to address the RGB, and the 3-pin is just a 3-way splitter built into the pump. If that is the case I guess I should effectively plug it into CPU_FAN instead?

 

Sidenote: is a single CHA_FAN header good enough to power 3 fans? I am thinking of getting a 3-way splitter for those instead of extensions so that I only need to use a single header on the bottom of the motherboard.

 

Quote

this should sort your cooling out. 

if your CPU rad / cooler don't fit the top of the case, maybe you should exchange it for one with 2x 140 fans. 

hope this help.

To be honest I am still not sure I have a cooling issue here. I have to run some stress test, but I let the PC run for an hour idle yesterday to see min / max temperatures in HWInfo. The worrying ones moved by 1°C at most.

I am fine with the 3 fans configuration. The issues were just not expected. If anything I may go for smaller fans on the top to put 3 of them but there is no rush.

 

Quote

 

note your GPU looks like has some sag, you should be able to get a support bracket or make one.

 

Yeah, that would not hurt. I am not sure what to get though. The case has a cover over the mounting point for the PCI-E cards. I am not sure an additional bracket would fit there.

 

 

[Bitter]

If you're worried about fans drawing too hard from one header you can get a powered fan hub fairly cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-1to10-way-cooling-fan-hub-splitter-12V-4-Pin-PWM-Adapter-Speed-Controller/264447317774

I've got a couple, they work very well.

[Fraya]

Edit: i just went to the Corsair website and checked out the quick user guide.

 

Connect pump power cable to an available SATA power plug
(figure 1).
• Connect pump tach cable to the CPU_FAN header
on your motherboard (figure 1).
• Connect each fan to the shrouded 4 pin connectors on the pump

  i can see now that there is what you basically call a (power & data cable) they call it Tach cable, this goes from the unit to the CPU-Fan header

Then your fans go to the fans header / splitter on the AIO cooler unit. 

 

i would follow the Corsair instructions. 

i know its complicated, but i hope this helps. 

I don't think you need to use the m/board CPU-Pump header as this is for dedicated custom liquid cooler systems. or other types where they don't have a data / Tach cable and a sperate Sata power cable. 

 

Frayia

[WanderingSky]

Quote

If you're worried about fans drawing too hard from one header you can get a powered fan hub fairly cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-1to10-way-cooling-fan-hub-splitter-12V-4-Pin-PWM-Adapter-Speed-Controller/264447317774

I've got a couple, they work very well.

 

It is not really that I am worried, it is more like I have no clue. The fans are basic Antec models which came bundled with the case (see https://antec.com/product/case/p82-flow.php). There is no marking on them indicating a maximum power draw and I can't find a technical spec on their website (which only lists fancy RGB models).

Although honestly if a SATA adapter costs 5 bucks, I think I will go with that...

 

Quote

Connect pump power cable to an available SATA power plug
(figure 1).
• Connect pump tach cable to the CPU_FAN header
on your motherboard (figure 1).
• Connect each fan to the shrouded 4 pin connectors on the pump

  i can see now that there is what you basically call a (power & data cable) they call it Tach cable, this goes from the unit to the CPU-Fan header

Then your fans go to the fans header / splitter on the AIO cooler unit. 

 

i would follow the Corsair instructions. 

i know its complicated, but i hope this helps. 

I don't think you need to use the m/board CPU-Pump header as this is for dedicated custom liquid cooler systems. or other types where they don't have a data / Tach cable and a sperate Sata power cable. 

 

So, I went into the BIOS to re-enable CPU_FAN monitoring and then plugged the AIO into the CPU_FAN header. The fans on the radiator are running slower according to the Corsair Link and HWInfo. Honestly I could not tell by sound alone. The GPU fans are way louder than the others.

 

I still have random issues on boot or reboot. When I plugged the PC today I first got an error 40 and a freeze on Windows login screen. Then after changing some bios setting I had a couple 8d errors on reboot. For some weird reason, it seems that ignoring T-sensor in monitoring triggers this as I don't think I ever had any issue when this is enabled. I don't have any additional thermal sensor plugged on the motherboard so this always appears as N/A anyway. I did not reboot the damn thing a hundred times though. I have seen messages of people online telling to lower VDDCR SOC voltage to fix this. I think I will try that if the problem persists.

 

Switching to the CPU_FAN header did not change anything in monitoring tools so I guess I will have to run some stress tests to find out if these are false indicators. I think I will get a temperature sensor first and try to plug it into the motherboard to see if it changes anything.

 

[Bitter]

7 hours ago, WanderingSky said:

 

It is not really that I am worried, it is more like I have no clue. The fans are basic Antec models which came bundled with the case (see https://antec.com/product/case/p82-flow.php). There is no marking on them indicating a maximum power draw and I can't find a technical spec on their website (which only lists fancy RGB models).

Although honestly if a SATA adapter costs 5 bucks, I think I will go with that...

Usually, almost always, there's marking stamped into the back of the fan in the middle of it or on a sticker. I've pretty much never ran across a fan without markings except when it's been peeled off because I had to repair it.

[WanderingSky]

I don't see it. But it took me 15 minutes to find the airflow indicator so I would not trust myself on that...

Here are some photos. The only marking I see is the airflow indicator and some text on the cables.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bitter]

Take a peek under the Antec sticker? They don't look like especially powerful fans so putting 2 or 3 on a header is probably fine, but they're 3 wire not 4 wire so speed control won't be as great and they're probably pretty low end, low flow, low pressure fans. It would be worth your while to get something with better airflow and noise characteristics in the future since this is going in the living room.

[WanderingSky]

So, I tried to few thing tonight. Good and bad...

 

I tried to install a GPU support bracket:

https://www.amazon.com/upHere-Addressable-Graphics-Support-Bracket-GL28ARGB/dp/B07TT2RVFH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=284YWMQHMIOD6&keywords=uphere+rgb+gpu+bracket&qid=1582061000&sprefix=uphere+rgb+bracket%2Caps%2C256&sr=8-1

If anyone is thinking of getting this for a build... STAY AWAY FROM THIS PIECE OF ABOMINATION.

I thought this was a mostly aluminium bracket like their non RGB models. Nope. It is made of plastic entirely. It is thick. Twice as thick as the plate of my GPU in fact. But the thing does not even support its one weight while you are screwing it in the case. I ended up not even trying to turn on the PC with it inside. The flexibility made me fear that the bracket would move and interfere with the GPU fans. Any recommendation for something better? I am tempted to go with something that would rest on the PSU shroud instead it seems like a safer bet.

 

I also reset RAM frequency to auto in the bios in order to run a stress test in default configuration. I run Prime95 with 16 threads for about an hour. Here is what I got in HWInfo:

 

I am pretty much convinced that Temp2 to Temp5 are garbage or entry points for disconnected sensors. They almost did not move for the entire test.

I am a bit concerned about the CPU package though. It stabilised around 60°C after a while, but near the beginning it jumped to 80°C. Is this an expected behavior with an AIO? The liquid temperature did rise a bit and stabilised around 33°C. But the radiator fans always stayed at basically the same speed (see below).

 

 

Prime95 did not show any error whatsoever. I think I will re-run a test tomorrow with overclocked RAM to see if the PC is still stable. This makes me think of another question though. What I initially did to overclock the RAM was just to raise frequency. Maybe I should enable the XMP profile instead? I did not raise voltage at the same time so I guess this could explain the 8d error I got at boot as I read that this could indicate an issue with the infinity fabric.

 

 

Quote

Take a peek under the Antec sticker? They don't look like especially powerful fans so putting 2 or 3 on a header is probably fine, but they're 3 wire not 4 wire so speed control won't be as great and they're probably pretty low end, low flow, low pressure fans. It would be worth your while to get something with better airflow and noise characteristics in the future since this is going in the living room.

I checked on the spare one. There was nothing under the sticker unfortunately. In the meantime, I ended up getting a bunch of cheap 3-pin extension cables and rerooting the cables behind the back plate. As you said, these are not especially great, so I think I will look at splitters and hubs more closely when I will look for better fans at a later date. My credit card need to recover from the PC first. One interesting side effect of using extensions is that I no longer have fan cables going between the motherboard and the graphic card. It looks like it reduced the GPU fan noise for some reason.

[Bitter]

Are the splitters you're using giving all 3 pins to each fan? if so that's incorrect, only one fan should have all the pins, the others should only have two. Multiple speed signals will interfere with each other and can cause some weird speed control issues. It's as simple as snipping a wire off so only one fan is reporting it's speed.

[WanderingSky]

I have no splitter for now. Each chassis fan is connected to a dedicated header on the motherboard. One of them is attached to an M.2 fan header.