KaitouX

13 minutes ago, AlfaProto said:

And no, that kind of power draw ONLY HAPPENS if you are doing something intensive, like video/3D rendering using CPU.

 

I would recommend getting i7 12700K or 13700K, and pair it with decent Z-series motherboard. If you wanna save some money, you would get the 13600K---although normally, I don't recommend downgrading a tier, Core i7 to Core i5, but since you are 8 generational gap, it's fine to downgrade.

You can also lower the power target without losing too much performance.

The 13600K is faster than the 12700K though.

18 minutes ago, PRXSTIGE said:

Would you consider the R9 5950X overkill? Or should I just add more and get the 7950X?

Ignore any CPU that isn't Intel 13th and 14th gen, and AMD 7000 if your budget allows it.

Just now, ReanimationXP said:

Finally some valid questions. Yes if the DRM was removed you could download it from either an up to date PC or something like SteamCMD which allows you to log in.  There are safe ways to connect old PCs to the internet.  I don't think the onus should be on developers.  Some companies will be long broken up, and/or definitely not maintaining Steam packages anymore. If there are tools to universally strip Steam DRM off that's news to me, but good to know.  As far as I know that would be legal so long as you purchased it, but again assumes you can actually get it.

There might be issues with Valve messing around with the DRM without developers/publishers agreeing to it. I'm not sure if they would be able to actually remove it, as i believe that changes the actual .exe file, which might be against the contract between Valve and the developers, just bypassing it I believe doesn't require to change the actual .exe, only the steam dll, which might be less problematic from a legal standpoint.

Valve removing/bypassing the DRM without agreement from the publishers would possibly also cause them to start to add more third-party DRMs, as they likely wouldn't like that Valve is taking the control from them.

7 hours ago, ReanimationXP said:

 

In my opinion, Valve should be morally (and possibly legally) obligated to provide a path forward for those who have purchased a game, by removing the Steam DRM from them and allowing them to launch on older platforms, especially if previously installed, and providing a way forward to download and reinstall them to older platforms, even if that means using a commandline tool such as SteamCMD rather than a nice frontend.

While I agree Valve should remove the DRM from those games, I think in this case it would be more up to the developers to do so, as they're the ones that decide to use or not the DRM.

Also assuming they removed the DRM, wouldn't you just be able to download the game in a up to date PC, and put it in the old one? Which is probably for the best too, as you probably shouldn't be running such old OS connected to the Internet.

There's also third-party tools, which are pretty easy to use to remove the need for Steam, but that enters a bit of a gray area.

5 hours ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

For the record all you needed to do was delete the existing partitions and hit next.

When I had the same error it kept failing until I used diskpart to manually do it, so it might not have fixed it.

14 hours ago, FlyingPotato_is_taken said:

This is one aspect that Aliexpress could improve. Their algorithm could decide that you don't need to return the goods, but they don't offer the option to send the items back. You might end up with hazardous waste (e.g. electronics) that you have to dispose of responsibly at a local collection point, which is often not in the city center and has limited opening hours.

This would be quite expensive for them, sending items to China is really expensive, and I don't think many people would be willing to pay for that.

Aliexpress is pretty good for buyers, as long as you're able to prove that the seller can't or isn't willing to fix your issue it seems like they will just refund the full amount.

6 hours ago, almog said:

I'll put the computer to render as soon as I can get away from it, I'll post temps under load later.

Hard to find Thermalright components, hard to get warranty if needed.

Could only find in one store (marketplace) for about $100. Way over my budget.

In Brazilian Reais the difference in "number" is about 150.
- Tower + 2x 120mm fans: BRL 250
- AIO mentioned: BRL 340
- Thermalright: BRL 490

- 360mm AIO: 700+

If you can keep your current for a bit, a Thermalright PA120 on Aliexpress is a good option, it costs about R$270 currently, so probably not worth it, but it was going for R$180 with the black friday sales and coupons. Those prices already includes the taxes.

Other alternative is the Deepcool AG620, which is going for R$309(Pix)+shipping on GKInfoStore, or wait for it to go on sale somewhere else, once in a while it appears under R$350 on other shops.

If you want something cheaper, I would probably look into the AG400 over the Pichau cooler, you can find in multiple shops for under R$150(Pix).

5 minutes ago, ZeusXI said:

Every consider going AMD? I know intel runs pretty toasty. and with a mini-itx system you might be starving an intel cpu and the performance will tank.

Intel and AMD perform pretty similarly across power levels, with the 7900X and 7950X being around 10% faster(at the same power) than their current price competitors between 65W and 150W, and almost identical above and below that. And the 13600K being at least as efficient compared to the 7700X and easily beating the 7600X across the board. All of this on heavy all-core workloads.

The 12700K would be better value, but the 13600K performs better.

16 minutes ago, Why_Me said:

I would put more emphasis on the gpu and less on the cpu. btw after you download Windows, use the MS serial key that comes with the disc.

 

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor  ($146.74 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: *Deepcool AG400 75.89 CFM CPU Cooler  ($21.99 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: *Asus TUF GAMING B760-PLUS WIFI D4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard  ($139.99 @ B&H) 
Memory: *TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory  ($53.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: MSI SPATIUM M371 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive 
Video Card: *MSI GAMING X GeForce RTX 4060 Ti 8 GB Video Card  ($344.99 @ Newegg) 
Case: *Deepcool CC560 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: *Corsair RM750e (2023) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($96.99 @ Newegg) 
Operating System: *Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit  ($104.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $969.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-11-22 21:57 EST-0500

The 12600K for not even $10 more currently is a no-brainer, the iGPU can be helpful on some editing software, plus higher clocks and 4 E-cores.

The 12600KF and 12700KF are probably the best budget CPU options currently in the US, as they're on sale for $140 and $200 on Amazon and NewEgg.

3 hours ago, Avocado Diaboli said:

No, the system behind how Steam allows you to access games is almost certainly just a database, where each user has a record that notes down who has paid for access to what. It would be an absolute triviality to allow you to sell digital games by implementing a function that allows the arbitrary erasure of those entries in a table somewhere while simultaneously adding the same record to another one. 

 

Steam is already in itself a form of online DRM. You can't download a game you haven't activated on your account. Removing that access is trivial, as we've seen with how easy it is to deactivate licenses that have been purchased fraudulently.

The issue they are talking about is that even if Steam revokes access to the game on their side, that doesn't mean the person didn't just move the folder and kept the game installed, basically they are limited to blocking the download. Many games on steam are DRM free, and blocking/removing the Steam DRM is trivial, naturally at that point you might as well just download a pirate copy in the first place.

Probably Valve would be mostly fine with allowing users to sell games, as long as that is done within Steam. Publishers would absolutely not be okay with it though, if Steam tried it I guess most major publishers would threaten to pull out of the platform.

Unless your budget is extremely limited(which it isn't by the 7900XTX), I wouldn't go for AM4.

LGA1700 and AM5 are just much better currently.

On 11/16/2023 at 3:27 PM, SupaKomputa said:

Didn't realize it was 720p haha.

 

 

 

"A BIT" better with 3x the power. WTF.
It's good if you live in Alaska.

That includes heavy MT tasks that let the 14700K pull 280W (unnecessarily), while the 7800X3D is limited to 80W. In those tasks the 14700K can be about double the speed, but if you care about efficiency, you can power limit the 14700K to about 90W and still beat the 7800X3D in those tasks, in some cases by 15% or more. The same can be done with the 7900X and 7950X with even better results.

1 minute ago, filpo said:

Looks OK but I'd get a 3080 if you can stretch the budget to something like @PDifolco's done (btw you can swap out the 5800X3D for a 5700x I was just thinking that at 1080p a 5800X3D would be best

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor  (€334.95 @ Megekko) 
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler  (€58.16 @ Azerty) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte B550M DS3H Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  (€93.85 @ Megekko) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory  (€46.75 @ Megekko) 
Storage: Lexar NM620 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  (€49.85 @ Megekko) 
Case: Deepcool MATREXX 40 3FS MicroATX Mini Tower Case  (€58.16 @ Azerty) 
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 - TT Premium Edition 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (€153.21 @ Azerty) 
Custom: Used RTX 3080 (€420.00)
Total: €1214.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-11-15 22:55 CET+0100

For that price might as well go for a 13600K+DDR4 or 7600+DDR5.

The build volume on the Neptune 4 Plus is quite a bit bigger, I think overall the P1P is better, but it really depends if you want the bigger build volume while saving some money, the Neptune 4/4 Pro and 3 Pro are also pretty good printers too. All have their own issues, so check reviews and look for things you might want to have or to avoid.

1 hour ago, Shimejii said:

Basically you need to bios update before it will even post (although some boards just read them as 13th gen and POST anyway)

The 14900K and 14600K do work, but the 14700K doesn't, as it isn't a rebrand of an existing 13th gen CPU. But considering 14th gen compatible BIOS started coming out over a month ago, it might already come with it.

If the you can't keep the temperatures in check you can easily power limit it a little bit to make it manageable.

On the 14900K a 66W power consumption decrease reduces performance by ~5% or less in heavy applications. The 13700K had similar scaling, so I expect the 14700K to also be similar. In games the difference is naturally even smaller.

8 minutes ago, zdemigod said:

Would disconnecting all other drives really add automatic partitioning as an option for the drive I want? that doesn't sound like that's what the issue is.

It might help, and it's usually recommended to avoid issues and accidents.

You can try using Disks or KDE Partition Manager to convert that drive to GPT to see if it helps Nobara recognize it correctly.

5 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

I've actually never heard of the distro you're trying to use, but as a long time Linux user, whenever I install Linux, I normally actually choose the manual option. Generally I would not unplug other drives as many distros will auto detect other installed OS and add them to the boot menu for you automatically (assuming you don't select something dumb and mess something up).

It's Fedora with some QoL additions and some gaming focused changes.

It should recognize the Windows installation later anyway, if it doesn't it's pretty easy to force it to look for it. While I also usually won't disconnect everything, I had times where issues happened because of secondary drives.

Disconnect all drives other than the one you want to install Nobara at, then install Nobara using the automatic partitioning, and reconnect the other drives.

Or just look up how to manually partition a drive for linux. There are loads of tutorials showing how to do it and what each option means.

11 minutes ago, porina said:

GPU: Getting the highest model you can, and setting a lower power limit would give best perf/power ratio. Why don't they do this as standard? Cost. For current gen probably nvidia is the optimal choice.

Depending on how low you want to go with the power limit, this might not be correct. In my experience with power limiting GPUs, if you drop the power more than half it starts do drop the performance really hard, and this seems to be true for the 4090 as well, @150W it seems to be actually slower than the 4070@200W in benchmarks, i would guess this is due to the rest of the board using a lot more power on the 4090 then a 4070.

For CPUs, as long as you keep the power at 65W or above it's fine for both Intel and AMD, the flagships are the fastest, but if you lower below 45W for AMD and 35W for Intel, lower end CPUs end up performing almost identically, with the difference between flagship and 13600K/7700X getting under 5%.

But for both CPUs and GPUs, in general, as long as you don't go too low on the limit, the higher end models are the most efficient when limited.

1 hour ago, chtorogu said:

Yes, but you may as well get lower end parts then rather that gimping and partially wasting higher end ones.

A 13900K@125W is faster than a 13700K@253W, the 7950X@88W is faster than the 7900X@230W, when you limit both to the same power the 13900K is ~20% faster than the 13700K(@125W) and the 7950X is 18% faster than the 7900X(@88W), which while a smaller difference than when both are stock, still is a decent difference and it also gives you flexibility to decide how you set up the CPU, if you're okay with a slightly higher power consumption, you could set the 13900K to 190W and lose something like 5~8% compared to stock, or set PL1 and PL2 in a way where short tasks get the entire 253W limit and longer ones get limited to 150W.

The 4090@~230W is also slightly faster than the 4080@Stock, it also comes with more VRAM, which is helpful, or even necessary for some applications.

There's also undervolting, but that is a lot more dependent on silicon luck.

29 minutes ago, chtorogu said:

If you want to minimize heat exhaust you need to choose the lowest wattage components possible for the intended use. I'd put together a small system, micro atx or even mini-itx, with a Ryzen 3 processor and a GPU that can be powered without PCI-e power plug. It'll be low wattage no more than about 200W in total. If you're OK with integrated graphics you can bring that down a further 75W. 200W is hardly enough to heat up a room.

 

High end and low wattage/heat is simply not possible. But you can put together a low power/cool system that can play most anything at decent settings and resolution.

If you're willing to tweak some settings it's possible. You would be sacrificing performance, that's obvious, but not as much as many people expect. For example, running a 13900K/14900K at 125W, you would be losing roughly 20% performance compared to stock in heavy all-core workloads, and a 7950X at 88W also loses roughly the same. The 4090 can be limited to about 230W while keeping about 80% of stock performance, I think the 4080 and 4070Ti might be better suited for lower power targets though as in GPUs there are other parts of the board you can't really tweak. For the most part you can assume that in most current high-end parts you can cut the power consumption in half while losing 25% or less performance on average.

4 hours ago, IndirectX said:

Sadly, the AMD build is 25% more expensive than my Intel build for me. I loved the AMD5 Motherboard you suggested too, i have opened my mind to AMD motherboards now.

 

The second Intel build you suggested is also 30% more expensive than my Intel build for me.

What country you live in? In the US the 7600+B650 should be about the same price, unless you're going overkill on the motherboard. In a quick check the 7600 is about $440 for 7600+basic b650+decent DDR5, the 12400F+Z790-P+decent DDR5 is about $10 more, and the 13600K+B760+DDR4 is another $10, or $35 if you go with DDR5 here too.

3 minutes ago, IndirectX said:

Thanks a lot, I knew UserBenchmark was acting weird a few times. But I frequently use it for anything I find. Are there any other websites which can benchmark other than youtube?

 

Personally for some reason, I prefer bigger motherboards. So ATX for me. I will choose a MSI Z790-P and I'll consider using your suggestion for a tough situation with money

 

12400F is indeed cheaper overall, I will consider the 12400F. Thanks for the answer

Techpowerup, Techspot(HardwareUnboxed on YT), Guru3D, Kitguru, and GamersNexus on youtube.

It doesn't make much sense to go with a Z790 board with a 12400 unless you're getting some crazy discount on it. Also I don't think that board can overclock the 12400, but I'm not sure on that.

If you want to go 12400F + Z790 + DDR5, i would probably advise against it, a Ryzen 7600 + B650 + DDR5 is going to be about the same price for better performance. A 13600K + B760 + DDR4 would probably also be similar in price.

3 hours ago, Melodist said:

I actually re-checked and there doesn't seem to be any plastic-alike insulation / padding like the ILM and Thermalright Contact Frame has.

 

Which if that's the case and my eyes and fingers aren't playing tricks on me, then the Thermalright frame is superior at a much lower price and puts the hole german engineering thing highly into question, which is quite upsetting, since I'm German too.

It floats above the board making contact only with the CPU. The Thermalright one touches the board that's why it has the foam pads.

I personally think the Thermalright one is better for anyone that isn't going to do extreme overclocking. But at the same time I wouldn't use either, as even if i had the 13900/14900 I would just limit them to 180W or so, and at that point temperatures wouldn't be an issue anyway.