Why do people treat brands like the old Indian caste system?

[Sammael]

"I hate hp"

"I hate dell"

"I hate asus"

 

"I hate AMD gpus"

 

 

etc etc

 

Even more telling, some people add that they will NEVER, EVER patronize a given brands product again.  What is this?  The Hatfields and McCoys?  Some dude offends you, and now everyone else from his family, from now till the end of your days is dead to you?  How is that reasonable?

 

 

It's just like the old Indian caste system for some, you get some estimation of a brands products, and after that, they can NEVER move up or down in estimation.  

 

X companies laptop was bad, or had bad customer service, and from that some people take that every other laptop made or customer service rep from them will be bad.  And if a new ceo comes in and changes the engineering team and designs better stuff?  Still no?  Same estimation? No matter what?  If they redo their customer service?  get better rating time and time again?  They are still the rudest witches on the planet?

 

 

I guess that is just how people work.  Brands are useful in that they tend to serve as a store of value and perception about quality and reliability, but the negatives tend to stick around much longer and sometime leave negative SCARS on the psyches of men.  I completely get people being angry and upset with a brand, even swearing off any products from said brand... for a time.  But it seems to me everyone should have a statute of limitations of those brand banishments.  Else you accept the logic of the Indian caste system, once some lowborn wretch, there you will always stay, no matter what you do, now matter how much you try to  and do improve, inside the watchers mind you are still an untouchable.

[Vitalius]

Because humans can't understand how statistics work. Somebody has to get the short stick. And it happens to be you. 

That doesn't mean you are stuck with the short stick. Pull another stick. Odds are good enough that you won't get another short one. You might, but eh. Keep trying.

[T.Vengeance]

Because humans can't understand how statistics work. Somebody has to get the short stick. And it happens to be you. 

That doesn't mean you are stuck with the short stick. Pull another stick. Odds are good enough that you won't get another short one. You might, but eh. Keep trying.

Reminds of my post a couple weeks back when I found out what "regression to the mean" really is from that Veritasium video. I swear, if people learned that in school, society would be a much better place.

[TheRuke]

We can't be friends anymore because you said "I hate AMD GPUs" and didn't mention Nvidia.

 

FANNNNNNNBOOOOOOOIIIII

[RatedBlam]

Reminds of my post a couple weeks back when I found out what "regression to the mean" really is from that Veritasium video. I swear, if people learned that in school, society would be a much better place.

Wait, you didn't learn what regression is in school?

[T.Vengeance]

Wait, you didn't learn what regression is in school?

Nah, I didn't take stats (Data Management in ON) since it isn't manditory.

[ManOfDisguise]

AMD SUCKS NVIDIA IS BETTER! 

[RatedBlam]

Nah, I didn't take stats (Data Management in ON) since it isn't manditory.

Wait, I'm talking about a different regression.

I'm talking about a psychologigal mechanism where a invidual reverts back to a previous stage in the growth process. But I learnd that in junior high, which hopefully is mandatory

Actually I don't know what that data management version of regression is

[T.Vengeance]

Wait, I'm talking about a different regression.

I'm talking about a psychologigal mechanism where a invidual reverts back to a previous stage in the growth process. But I learnd that in junior high, which hopefully is mandatory

Actually I don't know what that data management version of regression is

Talking about this

http://youtu.be/1tSqSMOyNFE?t=2m19s

[RatedBlam]

Talking about this

Oh, then I kinda learned the basics then in community studies or whatever it's called in english

Oh, 1006 posts, about time, it has been almost a year

[Canoas]

Bad experiences with their products or costumer service, dislike for company policies or marketing/business strategies, etc. There are many reasons to dislike a brand, few of those have to do with statistics. I can buy a laptop that functions 100% properly yet still feel like it was not worth my money. It also makes a lot of sense to not buy from a brand that has badly serviced you before as that's pretty much how we evolved and survived until now, not making the same mistake twice. Also, If I say I hate apple does that mean I'll never ever ever buy from them? No, opinions can be changed as long as the companies change as well, but it does mean that at this moment I will refuse to purchase anything from them.

A lot of people seem to brand actual valid opinions about a brand as simple blind fanboyism, which really isn't the case a lot of the time.

Another interesting thing is that first impressions last. If the headlines of a newspaper says person A is a murderer, even if it's completely bogus and it is proved with 100% certainty that he isn't, the human brain will still not discard the possibility that he is in fact a murderer. Or rather, it'll take a lot more "effort" for your brain to acknowledge that the first impression was false than to accept that first impression.

 

@RatedBlam

Regression to the mean is something completely different from whatever you're talking about. It really has absolutely nothing to do with it. Regression to the mean is when you measure something and it is far from the expected value, the chances of the next measurement being closer to the expected value is incredibly high. It's not exactly a concept that is taught in school, but anyone should really be able to figure it out by themselves.

[Tr3vor]

I dislike HP laptops. I swear I have seen a few in my family, about 3 or 4 of those laptops cooked themselves. I don't like laptops that cook themselves, so I stay away, and I would not recommend them based on my experiences. 

 

Its that simple.

 

Maybe some people have a good time with a bad product (like me and Maxtor drives, never had a single one fail.), but the large amount of people with the bad product would tell everyone to stay away. I don't blame them.

[RatedBlam]

 

Not to be rude or anything, but you're just going to say to me that what i said is not regression?

I had to attend 3 courses of psychology, and regression definitely was a part of that. Psychoanalysis by Freud to be precise.

here, maybe a wikipedia link will assure you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_%28psychology%29

[Charger]

i only irrationally hate compac as i owned on in 1996-7 and it was bad lol I know that is no relation to anything at this point lol

[Canoas]

Not to be rude or anything, but you're just going to say to me that what i said is not regression?

I had to attend 3 courses of psychology, and regression definitely was a part of that. Psychoanalysis by Freud to be precise.

here, maybe a wikipedia link will assure you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_%28psychology%29

Not to be rude or anything, but what the hell? I explained what regression to the mean was, I never claimed whatever you were describing was not some other form of regression.

[RatedBlam]

Not to be rude or anything, but what the hell? I explained what regression to the mean was, I never claimed whatever you were describing was not some other form of regression.

Didn't notice "the mean" since we were discussing just regression.

But I'm sorry for trying to disprove you

[Canoas]

Didn't notice "the mean" since we were discussing just regression.

But I'm sorry for trying to disprove you

Actually, you were discussing regression to the mean. Maybe you didn't notice "the mean" the first time either?

 

Reminds of my post a couple weeks back when I found out what "regression to the mean" really is from that Veritasium video. I swear, if people learned that in school, society would be a much better place.

 

Anyway, no problem, everyone misreads something every now and then.

[RatedBlam]

Actually, you were discussing regression to the mean. Maybe you didn't notice "the mean" the first time either?

 

 

Anyway, no problem, everyone misreads something every now and then.

I'm pretty sure he might've edited it. But no problems, I gained nothing but a positive effects from this.

But now I have to ask him, just to make sure my reading comprehension still functions T.Vengeance

[T.Vengeance]

I'm pretty sure he might've edited it. But no problems, I gained nothing but a positive effects from this.

But now I have to ask him, just to make sure my reading comprehension still functions T.Vengeance

Well you did quote me with the full phrase  http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/99156-why-do-people-treat-brands-like-the-old-indian-caste-system/?p=1326929

 

It doesn't matter anyways. It's not a life and death thing I'm pretty sure I didn't edit it right before you replied. I don't exactly remember lol, it was an hour ago. Either way, we all make mistakes and there's no need to blow this one out of proportion

[RatedBlam]

Well you did quote me with the full phrase  http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/99156-why-do-people-treat-brands-like-the-old-indian-caste-system/?p=1326929

 

It doesn't matter anyways. It's not a life and death thing I'm pretty sure I didn't edit it right before you replied. I don't exactly remember lol, it was an hour ago. Either way, we all make mistakes and there's no need to blow this one out of proportion

Oh derp. This is what a fudged up sleep schedule does to you

I hope it's that anyways

[Vitalius]

Not to be rude or anything, but you're just going to say to me that what i said is not regression?

I had to attend 3 courses of psychology, and regression definitely was a part of that. Psychoanalysis by Freud to be precise.

here, maybe a wikipedia link will assure you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_%28psychology%29

Just saying, imo, Freud was crazy. 

Not that what he taught isn't valid, but... I am wary to apply anything I learned in my psychology courses that was based on his work to anything in real life. 

@Sammael

Now that I think about it, what do you mean "old Indian caste system". The thing still exists in a lot of India. Maybe not the most civilized cities, but from what I've heard, it's rampant enough to be noticed.

[RatedBlam]

Just saying, imo, Freud was crazy. 

Not that what he taught isn't valid, but... I am wary to apply anything I learned in my psychology courses that was based on his work to anything in real life. 

@Sammael

Now that I think about it, what do you mean "old Indian caste system". The thing still exists in a lot of India. Maybe not the most civilized cities, but from what I've heard, it's rampant enough to be noticed.

Maybe a bit of a wacko, with everything being related to sexuality. But if you remove that, eg. Regression is a actual thing. So I get what you're saying.

But his teachings do make for an entertaining psychology class

[Sammael]

Bad experiences with their products or costumer service, dislike for company policies or marketing/business strategies, etc. There are many reasons to dislike a brand, few of those have to do with statistics. I can buy a laptop that functions 100% properly yet still feel like it was not worth my money. It also makes a lot of sense to not buy from a brand that has badly serviced you before as that's pretty much how we evolved and survived until now, not making the same mistake twice. Also, If I say I hate apple does that mean I'll never ever ever buy from them? No, opinions can be changed as long as the companies change as well, but it does mean that at this moment I will refuse to purchase anything from them.

A lot of people seem to brand actual valid opinions about a brand as simple blind fanboyism, which really isn't the case a lot of the time.

Another interesting thing is that first impressions last. If the headlines of a newspaper says person A is a murderer, even if it's completely bogus and it is proved with 100% certainty that he isn't, the human brain will still not discard the possibility that he is in fact a murderer. Or rather, it'll take a lot more "effort" for your brain to acknowledge that the first impression was false than to accept that first impression.

 

 

Peoples perceptions seem to put a far greater weight into loss aversion, we remember the bad far more than the good.  It makes sense that we evolved to REALLY avoid the bads that we observe.  But there is a flaw with that mode of operation.  It's not always accurate.  Perception about a product or brand, often lags reality.

 

I'll give an HP example since Trevor below you said he hated them with a passion.  Years ago hp had an issue with their notebooks where the screens would just not turn on out of the blue.  It was traced to an issue with certain models with nvidia gpus that were shipped with bad solder and it would disconnect the display, essentially bricking the notebook unless you used an external display.  Some people fixed the issue with solder, but in any event the problem was fixed in later nvidia gpu shipments.

 

Many people were pissed at hp for their notebook displays not working.  Some of them probably swore off hps after that.  The question is, is it reasonable to do that for all future hp products for all time?

 

I say no.

 

nvidia released fermi that was expensive and hot, and according to a hitler youtube, exploded his 1000 watt psu as soon as he turned it on, future nvidia gpus were much better as they were refined and got on a better manufacturing process.

 

If someone had one of those fermi boards and paid a lot of money, had a bad experience, and swore off all future nvidia gpus, would that be reasonable?

 

Tech is not constant throughout all time and space, things can stay the same, or they can get better or worse.  What EVERYONE does when they say they will NEVER, EVER, use X brands products again, EVER !!!!!!!!

 

Is saying they believe in the logic of sins of the father pass to the son.  It is anti meritocratic.  It does not judge a specific product on its own merits, it places upon that products shoulders all the baggage of hundreds of previous products that may have NOTHING to do what what it is and how it performs.

 

Trevor said he had hot hps, he does not like hot laptops, therefore he does not like hps.  A 3rd grade philosophy class could spot the flaw in logic there.  

 

It presumes all future hps will be hot laptops, and therefore he can't go for anything from that brand.

 

I just want people to see that this is ANTI meritocratic, that this is a DENIAL of judging something on its own merits, it's about stigma and past experiences, experiences that override all reality going forward.  Where presumption is KING, not actual data and performance.

[Tr3vor]

Peoples perceptions seem to put a far greater weight into loss aversion, we remember the bad far more than the good.  It makes sense that we evolved to REALLY avoid the bads that we observe.  But there is a flaw with that mode of operation.  It's not always accurate.  Perception about a product or brand, often lags reality.

 

I'll give an HP example since Trevor below you said he hated them with a passion.  Years ago hp had an issue with their notebooks where the screens would just not turn on out of the blue.  It was traced to an issue with certain models with nvidia gpus that were shipped with bad solder and it would disconnect the display, essentially bricking the notebook unless you used an external display.  Some people fixed the issue with solder, but in any event the problem was fixed in later nvidia gpu shipments.

 

Many people were pissed at hp for their notebook displays not working.  Some of them probably swore off hps after that.  The question is, is it reasonable to do that for all future hp products for all time?

 

I say no.

 

nvidia released fermi that was expensive and hot, and according to a hitler youtube, exploded his 1000 watt psu as soon as he turned it on, future nvidia gpus were much better as they were refined and got on a better manufacturing process.

 

If someone had one of those fermi boards and paid a lot of money, had a bad experience, and swore off all future nvidia gpus, would that be reasonable?

 

Tech is not constant throughout all time and space, things can stay the same, or they can get better or worse.  What EVERYONE does when they say they will NEVER, EVER, use X brands products again, EVER !!!!!!!!

 

Is saying they believe in the logic of sins of the father pass to the son.  It is anti meritocratic.  It does not judge a specific product on its own merits, it places upon that products shoulders all the baggage of hundreds of previous products that may have NOTHING to do what what it is and how it performs.

 

Trevor said he had hot hps, he does not like hot laptops, therefore he does not like hps.  A 3rd grade philosophy class could spot the flaw in logic there.  

 

It presumes all future hps will be hot laptops, and therefore he can't go for anything from that brand.

 

I just want people to see that this is ANTI meritocratic, that this is a DENIAL of judging something on its own merits, it's about stigma and past experiences, experiences that override all reality going forward.  Where presumption is KING, not actual data and performance.

 

I didn't say I hated them, they're alright now but there are better alternatives. I think only one HP I saw fail was a GPU issue. I think the motherboard or CPU burnt out on the others, the things did not come on at all, not just the screens. I've had good experiences with HP laptops, like an old PIII based Celeron one, that thing was the bomb

[Canoas]

Peoples perceptions seem to put a far greater weight into loss aversion, we remember the bad far more than the good.  It makes sense that we evolved to REALLY avoid the bads that we observe.  But there is a flaw with that mode of operation.  It's not always accurate.  Perception about a product or brand, often lags reality.

 

I'll give an HP example since Trevor below you said he hated them with a passion.  Years ago hp had an issue with their notebooks where the screens would just not turn on out of the blue.  It was traced to an issue with certain models with nvidia gpus that were shipped with bad solder and it would disconnect the display, essentially bricking the notebook unless you used an external display.  Some people fixed the issue with solder, but in any event the problem was fixed in later nvidia gpu shipments.

 

Many people were pissed at hp for their notebook displays not working.  Some of them probably swore off hps after that.  The question is, is it reasonable to do that for all future hp products for all time?

 

I say no.

 

nvidia released fermi that was expensive and hot, and according to a hitler youtube, exploded his 1000 watt psu as soon as he turned it on, future nvidia gpus were much better as they were refined and got on a better manufacturing process.

 

If someone had one of those fermi boards and paid a lot of money, had a bad experience, and swore off all future nvidia gpus, would that be reasonable?

 

Tech is not constant throughout all time and space, things can stay the same, or they can get better or worse.  What EVERYONE does when they say they will NEVER, EVER, use X brands products again, EVER !!!!!!!!

 

Is saying they believe in the logic of sins of the father pass to the son.  It is anti meritocratic.  It does not judge a specific product on its own merits, it places upon that products shoulders all the baggage of hundreds of previous products that may have NOTHING to do what what it is and how it performs.

 

Trevor said he had hot hps, he does not like hot laptops, therefore he does not like hps.  A 3rd grade philosophy class could spot the flaw in logic there.  

 

It presumes all future hps will be hot laptops, and therefore he can't go for anything from that brand.

 

I just want people to see that this is ANTI meritocratic, that this is a DENIAL of judging something on its own merits, it's about stigma and past experiences, experiences that override all reality going forward.  Where presumption is KING, not actual data and performance.

 

But if they failed you once do they deserve the second or third chance when you could buy something equivalent or better from someone else?