Any Good Websites with C++ or System Language?

[BlackRayPlayer]

Like what the are basic commands, Stings within C++ and computer language, which I think is A+ or A# something; I can't remember.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BlackRayPlayer said:

Like what the are basic commands, Stings within C++ and computer language, which I think is A+ or A# something; I can't remember.

I don't understand the question. Websites are made with HTML, PHP and javascript.

[BlackRayPlayer]

A website to learn how to use C++ to use with Software.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, BlackRayPlayer said:

A website to learn how to use C++ to use with Software.

You mean c++ tutorials? To learn how to code c++?

[BlackRayPlayer]

Yes.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BlackRayPlayer said:

Yes.

https://www.learncpp.com/

https://www.learn-cpp.org/

 

You can google more if you like. Remember that when learning a language, it's important to use it. So while you are learning c++, also try to code little things yourself until you can code what you just learned without looking it up.

[0x21]

If coming from another language/with experience, then I find learnxiny a much better resource: https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/c++/

 

You can find documentation here: https://devdocs.io/cpp/

[Dat Guy]

On 10/7/2018 at 1:56 PM, timl132 said:

Websites are made with HTML, PHP and javascript.

 

I write them in C.

[reniat]

14 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

 

I write them in C.

I write my websites with a magnetized needle and a steady hand. Seriously though, writing literally everything in C is not always best dude. It's a language, not a religion.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

 

I write them in C.

What, why would you do that? It's like writing the windows kernel in javascript, oh wait... That's already true.

[Dat Guy]

Because it is memory-efficient and fast, especially when compared to interpreted languages. I have no reason to write slow websites.

[reniat]

Just now, Dat Guy said:

Because it is memory-efficient and fast, especially when compared to interpreted languages. I have no reason to write slow websites.

The idea that websites not built fully in C are automatically slow is simply uninformed. The language is not the reason websites are responsive/unresponsive. How you choose to handle when/how to load data will make far more of a difference than what language you write it in.

[Dat Guy]

The bottleneck of most dynamic websites - reading from/writing to a database - is arguably faster in C than in (e.g.) PHP, only beaten by ASM as proven here.

[reniat]

Just now, Dat Guy said:

The bottleneck of most dynamic websites - reading from/writing to a database

Where are you getting your data that most websites are slow because of database reads/writes? Have you ever profiled your front ends to measure bottlenecks and performance in general?

 

Also, the difference in database reads/writes is a backend responsibility. The entire front end of your tech stack has no relevance to reading/writing to a database directly (at least it shouldn't). No one would blink an eye if you write a backend in C, that makes perfect sense, especially when high performance is a requirement. The reason people are looking at you funny for doing webdev in C is the front end of the tech stack, which is almost always HTML/CSS/JS and leverages frameworks/libraries like React, Vue, Angular, etc.

[Dat Guy]

You are right that the front end has to be generated HTML anyway. So why shouldn't I generate it in a fast language? 

[reniat]

32 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

You are right that the front end has to be generated HTML anyway. So why shouldn't I generate it in a fast language? 

So to you, shaving off a few ms (at most) is worth throwing out the entire webdev library support? Also, are your websites just basic HTML tables and text and pictures? How do you make a modern responsive UI without some sort of JS?

[Dat Guy]

My stance on frameworks (= other people's hard-to-maintain bloatcode) is that I prefer to know what's going on. But of course C lets me generate HTML code that uses JQuery or something.

 

2 minutes ago, reniat said:

How do you make a modern responsive UI without some sort of JS?

Have you heard about that new crazy technology called CSS? It is actually rather nice.

[reniat]

14 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Have you heard about that new crazy technology called CSS? It is actually rather nice.

I'm a bit confused. You are saying to write webapp front ends with C, but you are also saying you'll need to use CSS and also leverage Jquery so you are also using JS. Are you doing any actual UI logic in C, or just using it to serve web content?

[bowrilla]

3 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

My stance on frameworks (= other people's hard-to-maintain bloatcode) is that I prefer to know what's going on. But of course C lets me generate HTML code that uses JQuery or something.

 

Have you heard about that new crazy technology called CSS? It is actually rather nice.

CSS3 and beyond is all nice and everything but still limited. Progressive Web Apps aren't possible at all and updating content once the website is loaded won't be possible either just to name two. 

 

C surely can be a fast language and there's a place for C and C++ in webdev – but only when handling huge amounts of data and being faced with extreme traffic. Most interpreted languages struggle with extreme parallelism. Python does and so does PHP. Node.js on the other hand has ways to deal with it and is way ahead. Sure, C or C++ (or C# or Swift or whatever) could do a better job. You could also just put your app in a docker container, fire up several containers and use loadbalancing. That will be faster on an even larger scale. DB queries might be slightly faster with compiled languages but you should know that these differences are barely measurable for single calls in most cases. Benchmarks are usually done by throwing hundres if not thousands of calls at a given task.

 

Your approach surely is viable but everything but a beginner's approach. You won't find many sources of help and information this way and finding a job with that approach is – let's say tricky. Most companies won't just let your do whatever you like, dismiss set structures and ignore already deployed frameworks – they also won't just let you reinvent the wheel if it's more efficient and faster to just make use of the free work others have done. Funny enough that you dismiss frameworks in your first sentence by accusing all frameworks to be bloatcode and then mention JQuery in the second one …

[Dat Guy]

2 minutes ago, reniat said:

I'm a bit confused. You are saying to write webapp front ends with C, but you are also saying you'll need to use CSS and also leverage Jquery so you are also using JS. Are you doing any actual UI logic in C, or just using it to serve web content?

This is a misunderstanding. I don't use JavaScript if there is no technical need to do so - but I could. And no, I don't write front-end logic in C (because my web browser does not understand that yet). I use C for those things which other people do in PHP - that's all. Hence my direct reply above.

 

2 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Most interpreted languages struggle with extreme parallelism.

Yup.

 

2 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Your approach surely is viable but everything but a beginner's approach.

I am not a beginner - and I actively recommend beginners to, at least, dip their toes into C before they run after Python or whatever.

 

2 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

Most companies won't just let your do whatever you like

Most companies expect me to solve the task at hand. There is no language that fits all possible tasks, not even C. I did not mean to imply that it would.

[reniat]

10 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

There is no language that fits all possible tasks, not even C. I did not mean to imply that it would.

You've definitely implied that, if accidentally, frequently in this forum. 

 

In this thread specifically, you have encouraged avoiding established webdev tools and technologies while saying just write stuff in C.

30 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

My stance on frameworks (= other people's hard-to-maintain bloatcode)

If you refuse to use useful industry standard tools, that's not a strength. Are there some bad libraries out there? Of course! Don't use the poorly written ones, and write your code such that you are modular and not locked into any one library so you can more easily utilize different libraries if you need to. Hard to maintain and bloated are qualities of code, not qualities of the language used to write the code. There are great and bad libraries in every language/environment.

[Dat Guy]

9 minutes ago, reniat said:

If you refuse to use useful industry standard tools, that's not a strength. 

"The industry standard" is a good example for the hammer vs. nails phrase. Just because something has always been "the solution", it is not necessarily the best (= cheapest, fastest, ...) way to solve an issue. 

 

Frameworks can make your life much harder once they fail to deliver the promised functionality. 

[reniat]

Just now, Dat Guy said:

Frameworks can make your life much harder once they fail to deliver the promised functionality. 

True, but there are also techniques for mitigating that risk so you can still leverage the good parts that frameworks give you. Fearing bad libraries is a good fear to have, but it can't cripple you either. It's really difficult to write a modern webapp to a professional standard without leveraging at least a framework or two.

[Dat Guy]

If you find yourself having to mitigate a self-imposed risk, you should probably think about your options again. 

 

Also, I consider "modern webapp" an oxymoron. Most things written as a "modern webapp" sacrifice a lot of functionality just so they can run in a limited, hostile environment ("web browser"). We need more modern desktop applications. 

[reniat]

57 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Also, I consider "modern webapp" an oxymoron. Most things written as a "modern webapp" sacrifice a lot of functionality just so they can run in a limited, hostile environment ("web browser"). We need more modern desktop applications. 

So your solution to writing professional modern webapps is "just don't"? Everything should just be a desktop app?

"Hey can you order flowers for Laura's recital?"
"Yeah gimme a sec I gotta reinstall proflowers.com. I uninstalled it to make room for github." 
 

Also, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the industry is shifting desktop application development towards a webdev stack. A lot of modern apps are being written with JS using things like Electron. Discord, Slack, and VSCode are prominent examples of this.

 

57 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

If you find yourself having to mitigate a self-imposed risk, you should probably think about your options again. 

That's part of software engineering. You use the same concept when using a data abstraction layer so that you don't write your code targeting a specific database implementation, allowing you to change your backend if needed without re-writing everything.