First time PC build

[Mindstab Thrull]

8 minutes ago, lee32uk said:

That is incorrect. A good manufacturer doesn't necessarily mean a good psu. Even Seasonic have mediocre/average units in their lineup (M12II/S12II if I remember correctly).

 

As for the 80 plus rating that also has zero bearing on the quality of the unit. 

 

I agree that you should never skimp on the psu though, as it is the most important component in your pc.

My point is that if you get an 80 PLUS unit, you'll ensure you're not getting a "dollar store" unit which could fail at any time. While the 80 PLUS rating itself doesn't mean you're going to have a "quality" PSU, what it does mean is that in order to pass, you have to use better quality components than a $15 PSU does in order to come up with those efficiencies. I was responding to @xriqn's "suggested build" that had a low-end case with included PSU (Logisys). If a person doesn't know the difference between who is a good manufacturer and who isn't, and what models to use or not use, saying "get one with an 80 PLUS rating" is a reasonable and importantly simple starting point until they can learn more about PSUs, to make sure they're not getting something that can explode the moment they plug it in.

In other words, if a person doesn't know a lot about them, saying "get an 80 PLUS PSU" will get them a decent unit more often than not so they don't have to worry about frying their system right away. That can be built upon later. I'm not going to tell them to "always get brand X unless it's model Q but Q version N is ok" right off the bat.

[Guest]

 

 

13 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

My point is that if you get an 80 PLUS unit, you'll ensure you're not getting a "dollar store" unit which could fail at any time. While the 80 PLUS rating itself doesn't mean you're going to have a "quality" PSU, what it does mean is that in order to pass, you have to use better quality components than a $15 PSU does in order to come up with those efficiencies. I was responding to @xriqn's "suggested build" that had a low-end case with included PSU (Logisys). If a person doesn't know the difference between who is a good manufacturer and who isn't, and what models to use or not use, saying "get one with an 80 PLUS rating" is a reasonable and importantly simple starting point until they can learn more about PSUs, to make sure they're not getting something that can explode the moment they plug it in.

In other words, if a person doesn't know a lot about them, saying "get an 80 PLUS PSU" will get them a decent unit more often than not so they don't have to worry about frying their system right away. That can be built upon later. I'm not going to tell them to "always get brand X unless it's model Q but Q version N is ok" right off the bat.

@STRMfrmXMN @jonnyGURU @Stefan Payne can explain it better than me, but there are bad 80 plus units on the market. The best way to not end up with a potato powering your pc is to read reviews or check through info on here.

 

Also:

 

 

[Stefan Payne]

14 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

My point is that if you get an 80 PLUS unit, you'll ensure you're not getting a "dollar store" unit which could fail at any time.

no, not true.

The only thing that 80plus does is guarantee that the efficiency should reach certain levels.

 

And even that doesn't really work as some companies have proven over and over and send in one unit to 80plus with higher efficiency and sold something totally different on the Market.

 

14 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

While the 80 PLUS rating itself doesn't mean you're going to have a "quality" PSU, what it does mean is that in order to pass, you have to use better quality components than a $15 PSU does in order to come up with those efficiencies.

A bit but not by that much.

That 80plus rating is just not enough for that. You need to test the unit itself and check if it does what it should.

 

Because there are some shitty units that don't even have working protection - even from named Brands. The latest and biggest about that is the EVGA B3 series but there are others as well. Namely those with the crappy 8pin Chips.

Although some are somewhat OKish, most 8pin protection ICs are utter garbage and don't even have UVP on +12V.

 

 

14 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

I was responding to @xriqn's "suggested build" that had a low-end case with included PSU (Logisys). If a person doesn't know the difference between who is a good manufacturer and who isn't, and what models to use or not use, saying "get one with an 80 PLUS rating" is a reasonable and importantly simple starting point until they can learn more about PSUs, to make sure they're not getting something that can explode the moment they plug it in.

No, it doesn't help anything.

Because there are more than enough really shitty 80plus White units on the Market. Even Bronze.

It gets a bit better when we get to gold but even here we find some duds. And sometimes the mentioned falsly advertized units.

 

So no, you can not say that. You have to recommend a good unit with DC-DC in the beginning. 80plus doesn't mean much in terms of Quality...

 

14 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

In other words, if a person doesn't know a lot about them, saying "get an 80 PLUS PSU" will get them a decent unit more often than not so they don't have to worry about frying their system right away. That can be built upon later. I'm not going to tell them to "always get brand X unless it's model Q but Q version N is ok" right off the bat.

No, not really.

 

The same as "go buy brand AZX!!111" doesn't help as many companys have shitty products in their lineup. So nothing gained here. And it didn't help much either...

 

You need to tell them what makes a good unit!

And tell them that with a good unit they can extend the life of the components, whit a so-so unit they shorten it and with a bad unit they are playing on luck and it can kill their PC or them any time.

[Stefan Payne]

On 5.4.2018 at 9:34 AM, xriqn said:

Used a no name PSU before in a computer, my Dell inspiron 530 had a no name PSU for 8 years of its lifespan before the PSU died and I replaced with some antec 250w one. That was clearly just a tragic incident that you rarely see.

Yes and because you got lucky, that applies to all people?

There are some instances where people report being electrocuted from the cheap/shitty Power Supply. 

Its like playing russian roulette with your computer.

 

 

16 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

When buying a power supply, I always recommend buying either from a reputable manufacturer or, if you don't know brands and haven't time to do research, at least a 80 PLUS rated power supply.

Not enough as every brand is capable of selling crap.

And some are better at it than others. Some have some really bad units in their lineup - even without PFC.

 

16 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

Budget "I don't care about quality" manufacturers tend to deliver units that may not last long, won't support the amount of power you actually need, or cause other issues like regular blue screens.

...as do low end ones from named brands, no difference there...

There is even one "named Brand", who sells their 8 year old shit, that doesn't have UVP on +12V and no OCP on 

16 hours ago, Mindstab Thrull said:

They won't, however, send their PSUs to another organization for any sort of quality rating because that costs money, probably more than the unit is worth. So at least an 80 PLUS rating gives you some idea that this is a reasonable unit. 

I also know from personal experience that I had a box with a noname power supply in it, had upgraded to a name brand 80 PLUS unit, and my monthly problems dropped like a hot rock.

So, spend some extra on a decent PSU and you'll be much happier with your system. You'll have less issues overall, especially if you plan on overclocking it at all.

Yes but an 80plus certification isn't a guarantee for anything as some manufacturers exploit that and use two different units, send one in to 80plus and another one is the retail version of it. There are some mentions of that on the Interwebs.

 

And "Named Brands" also still sell some pretty bad units. Some more than others.

For example:

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2015/02/03/lepa_mx_f1_600w_power_supply_review/

And as said earlier:
A good PSU can extend the Life of your components.

A bad PSU can shorten the Life of your Components

And a really bad PSU can kill that every second.

 

You can't go by brand.

You can't go by 80plus Label

You can't go by anything and have to recommend specific models!

 

 

[Special-K]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:44 AM, Special-K said:

I've slightly updated the list to have a cpu without the stock cooler, a coolermaster hyper 212 for cpu cooling, a tube of thermal compound, and win 10.

Here is a PCPartPicker list the same items except the HDD: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GDqvnH

Slightly changed it some more to try and lower the overall cost. 

On 4/5/2018 at 10:53 AM, Herman Mcpootis said:

so you're not gonna listen to us at all?

And it's not that I'm not listening, I am taking your guy's advice and trying to find some better parts for the system I would like to build. I would also like this system to have future upgradability should I end up getting the money to do so. .

[Herman Mcpootis]

On 05/04/2018 at 10:44 PM, Special-K said:

I've slightly updated the list to have a cpu without the stock cooler, a coolermaster hyper 212 for cpu cooling, a tube of thermal compound, and win 10.

Here is a PCPartPicker list the same items except the HDD: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GDqvnH

don't get this then, Build's a train wreck. old i5, unnecessary cooler and thermal paste, 120gb ssd priced the same as a good 240gb ssd and a PSU that looks mediocre.

[Herman Mcpootis]

get os from reddit for $25:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor  ($178.90 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H310M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($61.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 16GB (1 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($74.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Toshiba - 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($54.99 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card  ($328.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Case: SAMA - Maxcool-BK-15LEDLight MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($46.02 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: Cooler Master - MasterWatt 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($38.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $934.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-06 22:12 EDT-0400

[Special-K]

9 hours ago, Herman Mcpootis said:

get os from reddit for $25:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor  ($178.90 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: ASRock - H310M-DGS Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($61.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: G.Skill - Aegis 16GB (1 x 16GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($74.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Toshiba - 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($54.99 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card  ($328.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Case: SAMA - Maxcool-BK-15LEDLight MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($46.02 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: Cooler Master - MasterWatt 550W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($38.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $934.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-04-06 22:12 EDT-0400

Alrighty, this looks good, I would still prob go a mid tower case, that gives me room to upgrade to a larger board at some point in the future if I do choose to do so.