Need a New PSU - Help Please!

[tomoki]

Hello! 

 

I'm hoping to ask for some assistance with getting a new PSU. So I've looked at the PSU tier list and picked out the 'CORSAIR SF Series SF600 600W 80 PLUS GOLD'. I'm working on a new build and the parts are coming in place...only for me to find out that my existing PSU is actually no good. 

 

I'm wondering if 600W is enough. I'd like to overclock. The power supply calculator I used is by extreme outer vision. It says I need 477W.

 

My goal of the overclock is to get the i7-8700k to 5 GHz. I'd like to overclock the graphics card too. 

 

Here's the ballpark of my build. I obviously didn't pay anywhere near that much but these are the current prices. Also, I'm using the Sennheiser HD 6xx. 

 

Note: The power supply listed below is what I'm using in "name". It's the Corsair HX650 but it's really old. It's not Gold rating at all. 

 

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/Yw8t6s 

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/Yw8t6s
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/Yw8t6s/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core Processor  ($459.75 @ Mike's Computer Shop) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Dark Rock Pro 3 67.8 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler  ($109.99 @ Newegg Canada Marketplace) 
Thermal Compound: Noctua - NT-H1 3.5g Thermal Paste  ($9.02 @ Amazon Canada) 
Motherboard: Asus - Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($197.95 @ Vuugo) 
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($215.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Storage: Samsung - 850 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($173.99 @ PC-Canada) 
Storage: Western Digital - Red Pro 6TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($289.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB Video Card  ($909.99 @ PC-Canada) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($146.99 @ PC-Canada) 
Power Supply: Corsair - Professional 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($159.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Monitor: Dell - S2716DG 27.0" 2560x1440 144Hz Monitor 
Keyboard: Corsair - K70 Wired Gaming Keyboard 
Mouse: Logitech - G502 Proteus Core Wired Optical Mouse  ($49.99 @ Memory Express) 
Headphones: Sennheiser - HD 650  Headphones  ($644.43 @ Amazon Canada) 
External Storage: ADATA - CH11 500GB External Hard Drive 
Total: $3368.07
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-03-04 04:40 EST-0500

 

[tomoki]

Adding you both in for some wonderful insight!

Edited March 4, 2018 by tomoki
removed tags

[SquintyG33Rs]

tagging people is kinda rude since you're forcing notifications on them.

 

yes you'll be fine with 600W afterwards it will just be about choosing a decent quality unit and for that you can simply refer to the PSU tier list

[Herman Mcpootis]

600w is more than enough, though i have no idea ehat you're doing putting an SFX unit on a mid-tower.

[tomoki]

4 hours ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

tagging people is kinda rude since you're forcing notifications on them.

 

yes you'll be fine with 600W afterwards it will just be about choosing a decent quality unit and for that you can simply refer to the PSU tier list

Oh..oops..I didn't know that  

 

Really? 600W will be enough? What happens if I go lower to like...550W?

 

4 hours ago, herman mcpootis said:

600w is more than enough, though i have no idea ehat you're doing putting an SFX unit on a mid-tower.

LOL I don't know what I'm doing  

[seon123]

The SF is an SFX PSU, you'll probably want an ATX form factor PSU instead. 

Those PSU calculators are crap, and overestimate by a ton. With a 1070 Ti, you would be looking at closer to 300-350W. 

 

[Stefan Payne]

6 minutes ago, tomoki said:

I'm hoping to ask for some assistance with getting a new PSU. So I've looked at the PSU tier list and picked out the 'CORSAIR SF Series SF600 600W 80 PLUS GOLD'

No, because its an SFX form factor one. And you don't seem to be building a Small Form Factor PC so that does not make sense.

Even the TX-M should slap around the SF because of the size restrictions its no wonder because you need the space for it to be great.

 

Anyway: the GPU is way too expensive right now due to the Mining shit and nothing really is available. So in this case I'd rather recommend a smaller one like a 1050ti or something like that and holding on to around 500 bucks and buy something when the prices are at a reasonable level. 900 Bucks is something you could get a 1080Ti easily a couple of months ago...

And I'd also recommend a Powermeter...

Pushing the CPU to 5GHz might seem reasonable at first but you have to take the shitty TIM between Die and lid into account as well as the power consumption wich you could easily double...

[SquintyG33Rs]

3 minutes ago, tomoki said:

Oh..oops..I didn't know that  

 

Really? 600W will be enough? What happens if I go lower to like...550W?

CPU will be drawing around 130W to 150W and the GPU is pulling 220W to 240W plus the rest of the system, you'll be in the 400W range you can go lower if you want but don't go too too close to this number because you don't want to shorten the lifespan of your PSU. by that i mean don't get 450WPSU those are cheap units anyway not recommended

[PineyCreek]

You probably want a Kill-A-Watt meter.  Or a UPS with a wattage display.

 

Figure out your actual load and then add maybe 20%.  You don't really want to be running close to the PSU's capacity all the time.

[tomoki]

4 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, because its an SFX form factor one. And you don't seem to be building a Small Form Factor PC so that does not make sense.

Even the TX-M should slap around the SF because of the size restrictions its no wonder because you need the space for it to be great.

 

Anyway: the GPU is way too expensive right now due to the Mining shit and nothing really is available. So in this case I'd rather recommend a smaller one like a 1050ti or something like that and holding on to around 500 bucks and buy something when the prices are at a reasonable level. 900 Bucks is something you could get a 1080Ti easily a couple of months ago...

And I'd also recommend a Powermeter...

Pushing the CPU to 5GHz might seem reasonable at first but you have to take the shitty TIM between Die and lid into account as well as the power consumption wich you could easily double...

Right... urm... time to pick another one! 

 

Luckily!! I got my gpu before the price spike. I bought it on Black Friday 2017 during a flash deal on massdrop for 420 USD and had it shipped. The only things I'm waiting for right now are the CPU, motherboard and ram. And of course, now I need a new PSU.

 

Oh gosh... I was hoping 600W would do it. 

 

How about this one?! https://www.pc-canada.com/item/SSR-650PX.html?utm_source=pcpartpicker&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=pcpartpicker 

 

Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-650PX 650W 80+ Platinum ATX12V & EPS12V Full Modular 120mm FDB Fan 10 Years Warranty Compact 140 mm Size Power Supply (name taken from Newegg https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151192) 

 

Funny thing is ...when I first bought my power supply, Memory express (a local store) didn't have the 600W Gold efficiency and the guy just put a 650W there ...i was like..that's not what I want. He's like, it's around the same price and you'll be good with a little headroom. I think he was just trying to be nice cause I didn't know a thing before (not that I know anything about PSUs still hahaha) 

[seon123]

6 minutes ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

CPU will be drawing around 130W to 150W and the GPU is pulling 220W to 240W plus the rest of the system, you'll be in the 400W range you can go lower if you want but don't go too too close to this number because you don't want to shorten the lifespan of your PSU. by that i mean don't get 450WPSU those are cheap units anyway not recommended

He'd be looking at 400W if he had a 1080 Ti. The 1070 Ti has a much lower power draw. 

Spoiler

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11180/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review/16

 

There are several good 450W units to choose from. The Whisper M, Focus Gold and Straight Power 11 are all good PSUs. 

 

All PSUs from any decent brand are rated to run at a 100% load at their max rated temperature 24/7 for the entirety of their warranty. Running at 100% is not an issue. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by seon123
Something something

[tomoki]

Just now, seon123 said:

He'd be looking at 400W if he had a 1080 Ti. The 1070 Ti has a much lower power draw. 

  Hide contents

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11180/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review/16

 

There are several good 450W units to choose from. The Whisper M, Focus Gold and Straight Power 11 are all good PSUs. 

Oh? 450W will do?? I just looked at what system they used in the test: 

 

CPU:    Intel Core i7-4960X @ 4.2GHz
Motherboard:    ASRock Fatal1ty X79 Professional
Power Supply:    Corsair AX1200i
Hard Disk:    Samsung SSD 840 EVO (750GB)
Memory:    G.Skill RipjawZ DDR3-1866 4 x 8GB (9-10-9-26)
Case:    NZXT Phantom 630 Windowed Edition
Monitor:    Asus PQ321
Video Cards:    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Founders Edition
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti
AMD Radeon Fury X
Video Drivers:    NVIDIA Release 378.78
AMD Radeon Software Crimson 17.3.1
OS:    Windows 10 Pro

 

Is the power draw going to be similar to the i7-8700k at a potential 5.0GHz? 

[SquintyG33Rs]

1 minute ago, seon123 said:

He'd be looking at 400W if he had a 1080 Ti. The 1070 Ti has a much lower power draw. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11180/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-review/16

 

There are several good 450W units to choose from. The Whisper M, Focus Gold and Straight Power 11 are all good PSUs. 

i'm counting 400W with the overclock maxed out. i strongly doubt anandtech OC'ed on all those setups.

[Stefan Payne]

7 minutes ago, tomoki said:

Oh gosh... I was hoping 600W would do it. 

That isn't the problem.

What you need is a good 500-550W.

 

There is no need to go for 600W or more with that rig. You won't be able to put half, if you push your hardware without any regards for Lifetime and use a sledgehammer maybe somewhat around 400-450W. So no, 600W is not needed.

Go for quality instead.

[seon123]

1 minute ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

i'm counting 400W with the overclock maxed out. i strongly doubt anandtech OC'ed on all those setups.

The 4960X that they used for testing is a 6-core Ivy Bridge HEDT CPU overclocked to 4,2GHz. Newer architectures are more efficient than older ones, that's a pointer to consider. 

PCPer's review of the 1080 Ti showed an increase in power draw of 40W when they overclocked the 1080 Ti. The 1070 Ti has a significantly lower power draw, and the delta will be lower. 

[Stefan Payne]

9 minutes ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

i'm counting 400W with the overclock maxed out. i strongly doubt anandtech OC'ed on all those setups.

For what reason?!
Not everyone will double the power consumption for 5% more performance.

That is also something worth mentioning with modern Systems that OC rarely makes any sense these days!

The days where you could pull +50% Clockrates out of a CPU are gone. Now we are talking about maybe 15%. And double the Power consumption...

With graphics cards its even worse. Some people say that with an AMD Vega and +50% Power limit you don't really get an increase in performance. You just waste power...

9 minutes ago, tomoki said:

Oh? 450W will do?? I just looked at what system they used in the test: 

Yes, 450W is plenty.That is more than most people need.

And with a Kill-A-Watt thingy (or any other Powermeter) you can keep an eye on the power consumption and think about the worth of the overclock you might or might not do.

 

Most times its just not worth it these days...

 

Quote

Is the power draw going to be similar to the i7-8700k at a potential 5.0GHz? 

Most likely even higher than that.

The normal TDP of a HEDT CPU is around 130W. And that one is overclocked as well. So probably in the 200W or so ballpark.

 

But then again, you must know that you can't pull 5GHz out of that CPU that easy!
You might have to void the warranty and disassemble the CPU, put new thermal grease between Die and Lid to be able to do that.

 

So is it really worth the time and effort?

 

As for clock rates, look at that:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3077-explaining-coffee-lake-turbo-8700k-8600k

The Base is 3,7GHz (for something like AVX2 or so), but normal 6C Turbo is 4.3GHz 4-5 Core is 4.4GHz.

 

So we are talking about an increase in clockspeed of around 12,5%...

 

ANd you see there that you get something like +50% more power consumption for a bit more clockspeed...

And in this case it seems worse because clock is only increased around 10%...

[PineyCreek]

All this aside, there's nothing preventing you from getting a higher wattage PSU and using it with your rig.  You may want to, if you can get a high quality PSU or a better deal for the PSU you want in a higher wattage.  It's just that it's usually more money for a higher wattage rating. 

[SquintyG33Rs]

8 minutes ago, seon123 said:

The 4960X that they used for testing is a 6-core Ivy Bridge HEDT CPU overclocked to 4,2GHz. Newer architectures are more efficient than older ones, that's a pointer to consider. 

PCPer's review of the 1080 Ti showed an increase in power draw of 40W when they overclocked the 1080 Ti. The 1070 Ti has a significantly lower power draw, and the delta will be lower. 

according to nVida spec the 1070ti draws 150W which you multiply by 1.2 because you obviously put the power slider to 120% that gives me 220W but if you push clocks and voltage further the power draw will also increase, right? so i gave a max of 240W similarly for the CPU if he wants to hit 5GHz the amount of power rises exponentially and unlike the GPU you're not locked as for how much OC you can push. the slim 95W TDP is not going to be representative of the OC. from what i can find 130W to 150W is fairly normal with that chip. so i added those up which give 390 just for the 2 components. are you done arguing this point? you need more than 400W of power for that system period, it's not speculation. stop coming back on this, we don't care about a x79 platform barely overclocked.

 

(edit) i'm done i'm not commenting on this anymore. ppl just can't help themselves and bring their heaps of lack of knowledge in you can do what ever you want in the end have fun

[tomoki]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes, 450W is plenty.That is more than most people need.

And with a Kill-A-Watt thingy (or any other Powermeter) you can keep an eye on the power consumption and think about the worth of the overclock you might or might not do.

 

Most times its just not worth it these days...

Right. I just looked up the Kill-A-Watt device on Amazon earlier today when I was thinking about power supplies in general cause I was thinking about how long I've had this PSU. I wanted to get ready for new parts! overly excited to be honest. I should really get one of those. They seem extremely handy. 

 

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Most likely even higher than that.

The normal TDP of a HEDT CPU is around 130W. And that one is overclocked as well. So probably in the 200W or so ballpark.

 

But then again, you must know that you can't pull 5GHz out of that CPU that easy!
You might have to void the warranty and disassemble the CPU, put new thermal grease between Die and Lid to be able to do that.

 

So is it really worth the time effort?

Oh gosh. I won't ever delid haha ~ I will attempt to clock it but not delid. I'd be happy with anything close to that but that's my target! Gotta set a goal and land somewhere close if not on it! 

 

There's something I don't quite understand... These two power supplies have the EXACT same naming schemes but have 2 different model numbers:

 

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151193 

 

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABDC6A54919&nm_mc=AFC-C8JunctionCA&cm_mmc=AFC-C8JunctionCA-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10592396&PID=3938566&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_source=afc-PCPartPicker%2C+LLC

 

How in the world... I was gonna pick this one out next but there's 2 of them!! 

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, PineyCreek said:

All this aside, there's nothing preventing you from getting a higher wattage PSU and using it with your rig.  You may want to, if you can get a high quality PSU or a better deal for the PSU you want in a higher wattage.  It's just that it's usually more money for a higher wattage rating. 

What's the benefit of that?

 

For Higher Wattage that is none but a buck load of disadvantages!
Often the higher wattages also comes with higher fan speeds like Bitfenix Whisper M: ~450rpm or so for the 450 and 550W, ~700rpm for the 650W with no load at all.

And also higher damage when something goes wrong...

 

So what is the benefit of a higher wattage unit?!

[seon123]

8 minutes ago, tomoki said:

Oh? 450W will do?? I just looked at what system they used in the test: 

Is the power draw going to be similar to the i7-8700k at a potential 5.0GHz? 

450W should be plenty. PCPer measured the total system draw of a 5,1GHz 8700K under a CPU load to be 230W, Vs 150W at stock. 

Spoiler

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Coffee-Lake-Story-Intel-Core-i7-8700K-and-Core-i5-8400-Review/Quick-Gaming-Power-

In comparison, the 4960X system used by Anandtech at stock drew 210W from the wall. 

Spoiler

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7255/intel-core-i7-4960x-ivy-bridge-e-review/6

[PineyCreek]

4 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

What's the benefit of that?

 

For Higher Wattage that is none but a buck load of disadvantages!
Often the higher wattages also comes with higher fan speeds like Bitfenix Whisper M: ~450rpm or so for the 450 and 550W, ~700rpm for the 650W with no load at all.

And also higher damage when something goes wrong...

 

So what is the benefit of a higher wattage unit?!

Variable fan speeds based on load/heat internal to quality PSUs, better deal on a quality unit sometimes, and it's entirely possible unless you're doing mostly liquid cooling that you won't be able to hear the PSU fan over the other fans anyway.

[Stefan Payne]

4 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

Variable fan speeds based on load/heat internal to quality PSUs,

The law of thermodynamics doesn't agree with you.

And most PSU have the same design from 450-650W, changes happens either at 750W or even 850W. So no real benefit here.

And that's why they use higher RPM fans because something has do be done about the heat when you don't change the Heatsinks or even the Plattform.

 

Quote

better deal on a quality unit sometimes, and it's entirely possible unless you're doing mostly liquid cooling that you won't be able to hear the PSU fan over the other fans anyway.

Not with 450 vs. 650W of the same series/Plattform. That gives yo no benefit at all.

 

Because higher wattage units rarely give you any benefit at all. Especially NOT in the area we are talking about.

[seon123]

7 minutes ago, SquintyG33Rs said:

according to nVida spec the 1070ti draws 150W which you multiply by 1.2 because you obviously put the power slider to 120% that gives me 220W but if you push clocks and voltage further the power draw will also increase, right? so i gave a max of 240W similarly for the CPU if he wants to hit 5GHz the amount of power rises exponentially and unlike the GPU you're not locked as for how much OC you can push. the slim 95W TDP is not going to be representative of the OC. from what i can find 130W to 150W is fairly normal with that chip. so i added those up which give 390 just for the 2 components. are you done arguing this point? you need more than 400W of power for that system period, it's not speculation. stop coming back on this, we don't care about a x79 platform barely overclocked.

 

(edit) i'm done i'm not commenting on this anymore. ppl just can't help themselves and bring their heaps of lack of knowledge in you can do what ever you want in the end have fun

Why not use actual numbers instead of speculation? Here's Tomshardware's numbers for a custom 1070 Ti at stock and overclocked. 180W and 230W. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-ti-8gb,5311-16.html

Similarly for the 8700K, an increase to about the same as a stock 4960X. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

And for a gaming system, he won't put both the CPU and GPU at a 100% load at the same time, so the difference in power draw between at stock and overclocked will be less. 

[PineyCreek]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

The law of thermodynamics doesn't agree with you.

And most PSU have the same design from 450-650W, changes happens either at 750W or even 850W. So no real benefit here.

And that's why they use higher RPM fans because something has do be done about the heat when you don't change the Heatsinks or even the Plattform.

 

Not with 450 vs. 650W of the same series/Plattform. That gives yo no benefit at all.

 

Because higher wattage units rarely give you any benefit at all. Especially NOT in the area we are talking about.

PSUs with variable speed fans can operate without the fan running at low load, depending on the unit.  In that example, if the OP bought a higher wattage unit with a variable speed fan, he could avoid the noise issue altogether at low loads.  Of course, in that same example, it would invariably cost more unless he/she purchased a unit on sale or got a deal some other way.