Does Vsync help?

[Vincent123]

I have PUBG and I turned vsync on and it runs a lot smoother. Is it ok for me to have it on or should I shut it off. Tell me what you think. 

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

it helps with smoothness at the cost of huge input delay

 

it eliminates screentearing, but once again at a huge input delay cost

[Oshino Shinobu]

VSync can introduce some amount of input delay due to how it works, that's a sacrifice some are willing to take for the sake of the smoother experience it can provide. If it's not something you notice and it hasn't had any impact on your playing performance, leave it on. If you find you're missing shots, finding the game unresponsive and such, turn it off. 

Don't go based on what other people tell you to do. Try playing with it on and with it off and see which feels better to you. 

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3 minutes ago, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

it helps with smoothness at the cost of huge input delay

 

it eliminates screentearing, but once again at a huge input delay cost

It shouldn't be any more than 1 frame, and while everyone is sensitive to different amounts, I'm not sure I would call that a "huge delay"

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

It shouldn't be any more than 1 frame, and while everyone is sensitive to different amounts, I'm not sure I would call that a "huge delay"

it is way more then 1frame, if u dont believe so go check blurbusters and many other valid tests done, NO way is vsync 1frame ,  ur talking about freesync and gsync

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Just now, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

it is way more then 1frame, if u dont believe so go check blurbusters and many other valid tests done, NO way is vsync 1frame ,  ur talking about freesync and gsync

do you perhaps still have "max prerendered frames" set to the default of 3 in nvidia control panel?  That would be why you find it huge, if you do.

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

do you perhaps still have "max prerendered frames" set to the default of 3 in nvidia control panel?  That would be why you find it huge, if you do.

no and im an extreme tweaker it should be set to 0

 

vsync causes a huge delay no matter the prerendered frames, it is vsync itself

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Just now, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

no and im an extreme tweaker it should be set to 0

alright... can you link me to those tests then?  I'm curious

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

alright... can you link me to those tests then?  I'm curious

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag/

 

60hz vsync has around 89 to 108ms input lag

 

240hz however has 28-33ms input lag ( still huge )

 

it also depends per game but its atleast a minimum of 70ms with vsync on 60hz

 

gsync also causes some input lag , but way less then vsync ( however if u are sensitive to input delay u wouldnt even wanna play with gsync also, if u love low latencies c; )

[steffeeh]

I personally always leave Vsync off until I see screen tearing. The additional input lag from the in-game Vsync is obvious to my experience.

Not saying it's a general game killer as you eventually would get used to it in non competitive games and learn to compensate for it, but I can imagine it being in the way to a valid degree in games like PUBG.

 

EDIT: You could experiment with Nvidia's native Vsync alternative (or AMD's if it has one) but it hasn't worked for me at least, still getting tearing with it turned on.

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4 minutes ago, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag/

 

60hz vsync has around 89 to 108ms input lag

 

240hz however has 28-33ms input lag ( still huge )

Hm, after reading through that, I don't think it's nearly as bad as you make it sound* but you're right it is still really bad and I can't even explain where it's all coming from  

Spoiler

*

The results for v-sync off with no frame limiters (ie, ideal) were about 14 - 27 ms, so that's sort of the baseline of the monitor - it's not going to get better than that so any other number should be compared to ms slower than that, rather than just how many ms it is by itself.

 

The vsync on numbers for the same situation were, as you said, 89 - 108 ms which you're right, is ridiculously high

 

But, like I said, we need to compare to the "baseline", so really it's 62 - 94 ms worse than with it off.

 

Furthermore, based on this:

Spoiler

It seems possible that the pre-rendered frames thing I mentioned could be coming into play, but at most that should take off somewhere around 33 ms, maybe even 50 ms in a perfect world.

 

Meaning the actual impact of vsync could potentially be as low as 29 - 61 ms or even a miraculous 12 - 44 ms, but even at that, you're right, it's very high considering by the time we've calculated down to this number literally everything that should be able to add a delay has been taken into account so the fact this is not 0 is not good  

 

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28 minutes ago, Vincent123 said:

I have PUBG and I turned vsync on and it runs a lot smoother. Is it ok for me to have it on or should I shut it off. Tell me what you think. 

To answer this finally  You have to decide what you want.  If you can render (fps) as fast or faster than your monitor can display (hz), it will make things smoother and remove stutter and tearing, but if you can't keep up, it will probably add more stutter.  It also does add a delay, as mentioned.  Up to you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Oshino Shinobu]

23 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

It shouldn't be any more than 1 frame, and while everyone is sensitive to different amounts, I'm not sure I would call that a "huge delay"

 

22 minutes ago, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

it is way more then 1frame, if u dont believe so go check blurbusters and many other valid tests done, NO way is vsync 1frame ,  ur talking about freesync and gsync

The buffer on VSync is 1 frame (or however many you set it to), but it doesn't really work out as it being a 1 frame delay as it's not simply just holding back a frame before pushing it out. There's quite a bit of overhead with VSync. 

 

The "huge delay" part is subjective and varies from game to game really. I'd consider a "huge delay" to be something that actually affects gameplay, and VSync doesn't always do that. I've had some games that are basically unplayable with VSync due to the "huge delay" it caused but I've also had some where I don't even notice it at all. 

 

Even GSync isn't 1 frame according to the Blurbusters article you linked. I only skimmed through it, so I'm not sure if they calculated and removed the base level of input delay in their results. If they didn't, then GSync may have been closer to that. 
 

[JoostinOnline]

24 minutes ago, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

it helps with smoothness at the cost of huge input delay

 

it eliminates screentearing, but once again at a huge input delay cost

The only thing huge is your exaggeration.

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Hm, after reading through that, I don't think it's nearly as bad as you make it sound* but you're right it is still really bad and I can't even explain where it's all coming from  

  Reveal hidden contents

*

The results for v-sync off with no frame limiters (ie, ideal) were about 14 - 27 ms, so that's sort of the baseline of the monitor - it's not going to get better than that so any other number should be compared to ms slower than that, rather than just how many ms it is by itself.

 

The vsync on numbers for the same situation were, as you said, 89 - 108 ms which you're right, is ridiculously high

 

But, like I said, we need to compare to the "baseline", so really it's 62 - 94 ms worse than with it off.

 

Furthermore, based on this:

  Reveal hidden contents

It seems possible that the pre-rendered frames thing I mentioned could be coming into play, but at most that should take off somewhere around 33 ms, maybe even 50 ms in a perfect world.

 

Meaning the actual impact of vsync could potentially be as low as 29 - 61 ms or even a miraculous 12 - 44 ms, but even at that, you're right, it's very high considering by the time we've calculated down to this number literally everything that should be able to add a delay has been taken into account so the fact this is not 0 is not good  

 

it is because the monitor has to be synced with the gpu, the gpu has to degrade itself quite heavily to be in sync with the monitor, thus causing the delay

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1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The buffer on VSync is 1 frame (or however many you set it to), but it doesn't really work out as it being a 1 frame delay as it's not simply just holding back a frame before pushing it out. There's quite a bit of overhead with VSync. 

Interesting

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

The "huge delay" part is subjective and varies from game to game really. I'd consider a "huge delay" to be something that actually affects gameplay, and VSync doesn't always do that. I've had some games that are basically unplayable with VSync due to the "huge delay" it caused but I've also had some where I don't even notice it at all. 

I agree

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Even GSync isn't 1 frame according to the Blurbusters article you linked. I only skimmed through it, so I'm not sure if they calculated and removed the base level of input delay in their results. If they did, then GSync may have been closer to that. 

I don't think they did, hence my additional math above

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

The only thing huge is your exaggeration.

if u are any person that is any competitive in fps gaming ( at high skill ) u wouldnt even wanna live with the vsync delay trust me P:

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Interesting

I agree

I don't think they did, hence my additional math above

the vsync delay is not as noticeable on controllers due to deadzones

 

however on a mouse its quite huge, and the higher teh sensitivity the more it will put ur aim off due to the delay ;(

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

if u are any person that is any competitive in fps gaming ( at high skill ) u wouldnt even wanna live with the vsync delay trust me P:

That's at the point where you're just another asshole who thinks having a 1ms response time on your monitor makes the difference between failure and success.

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

That's at the point where you're just another asshole who thinks having a 1ms response time on your monitor makes the difference between failure and success.

no, but 100ms delay will kill ur skill

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Just now, Valkyrie Lenneth said:

the vsync delay is not as noticeable on controllers due to deadzones

 

however on a mouse its quite huge, and the higher teh sensitivity the more it will put ur aim off due to the delay ;(

Yeah I think that's probably valid, you will feel it more though any input method that gives you a better connection to the software.

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

That's at the point where you're just another asshole who thinks having a 1ms response time on your monitor makes the difference between failure and success.

lol no, not even close.  Did you read the article?  It's 10s of ms, even up to over 100 potentially.

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah I think that's probably valid, you will feel it more though any input method that gives you a better connection to the software.

lol no, not even close.  Did you read the article?  It's 10s of ms, even up to over 100 potentially.

1. No, I didn't see the article.
2. It's irrelevant to my joke.  I was talking about competitive gamers who are obsessed with framerates response time.

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah I think that's probably valid, you will feel it more though any input method that gives you a better connection to the software.

lol no, not even close.  Did you read the article?  It's 10s of ms, even up to over 100 potentially.

anyhow i hope u like the information i given u and that i educated u abit on input delay due to vsync

 

i dont say vsync is bad... but for fps gaming it is terrible

 

playing games such as console games , RPG's and games that dont really require extreme quick inputs are actually benefiting from vsync ( quite positively )   think about racing games for example ^^, final fantasy ... however i wouldnt wanna play sonic the hedgehog ( sega genesis ) with vsync or quake lol

 

because of this huge amount of delay due to vsync is why they have even invented vsync... so players can benefit from the uses of vsync at lower input latencies

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Just now, JoostinOnline said:

1. No, I didn't see the article.
2. It's irrelevant to my joke.  I was talking about competitive gamers who are obsessed with framerates response time.

it's worth noting that framerates, response times, and input lag are all totally different things for those who may not know

[Valkyrie Lenneth]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

it's worth noting that framerates, response times, and input lag are all totally different things for those who may not know

actually, framerate + response time + input lag ALL TOGETHER cause the total (input)delay