Need electrician advice

[knightslugger]

Need a 'lectromagician to help me out.

 

I want to power my PSUs with 220v AC because the 110v circuits are rated to 15A and i'd be running at about 10A if i did. The PSU is rated to 1200w on 110v and the device will consume 1200w which will mean it will be running full tilt max power 24/7. NOT IDEAL. however if i run it on 220v power, the output jumps to 1600w max, and i'm running pretty efficiently without a lot of strain on the PSU. 

 

I know 220v outlets are supposed to be unique, both in construction and in connector configuration. PRETTY SURE it's just supposed to be 2 hots and a ground. no need for a neutral. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

So I have 2 questions:

 

Do i use 6-20P to C13 cables or something else?

and

If i install 6-20p outlets, do i have to use a breaker rated to the number of 20A outlets I plan to install to stay to code?

 

say I install five 6-20P outlets, which are rated to 20A each. Do i have to use a 100A breaker even though the expected load will be less than 30A?

[Billy_Mays]

To stay in code you will need a certified electrition to check the wiring if you do it yourself

[knightslugger]

Just now, Billy_Mays said:

To stay in code you will need a certified electrition to check the wiring if you do it yourself

i realize that, but i want to make sure i'm doing it right., or at least have the right idea.

[Billy_Mays]

Just now, knightslugger said:

i realize that, but i want to make sure i'm doing it right., or at least have the right idea.

ok I was letting you know that

[hickory]

14 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

Need a 'lectromagician to help me out.

 

I want to power my PSUs with 220v AC because the 110v circuits are rated to 15A and i'd be running at about 10A if i did. The PSU is rated to 1200w on 110v and the device will consume 1200w which will mean it will be running full tilt max power 24/7. NOT IDEAL. however if i run it on 220v power, the output jumps to 1600w max, and i'm running pretty efficiently without a lot of strain on the PSU. 

 

I know 220v outlets are supposed to be unique, both in construction and in connector configuration. PRETTY SURE it's just supposed to be 2 hots and a ground. no need for a neutral. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

So I have 2 questions:

 

Do i use 6-20P to C13 cables or something else?

and

If i install 6-20p outlets, do i have to use a breaker rated to the number of 20A outlets I plan to install to stay to code?

 

say I install five 6-20P outlets, which are rated to 20A each. Do i have to use a 100A breaker even though the expected load will be less than 30A?

Do you already have a 220V receptacle installed at the location?

[JokerProduction]

Your a bit off and its not going to be as easy as your hoping.

 

-Your biggest issue is not going from 120 to 240 but going from 15A to 20A . Your current 115 will be wired with 14g wire YOU MUST use 12G wire for a 20A circuit.  This means that an entirely new run of wire has to be ran from the panel to the receptacle.

 

-Now if you decide you dont need the 20A capacity you can switch the 120 to 240 fairly simply by using the neutral to a 2p 15A breaker and using tape to colour the white wire. and of course installing the corresponding 6-15R  receptacle

 

-You will Need a 2p Breaker (A fault on either line will cause both breakers to trip) A breaker tie bar can also be used.

 

-By code you can have up to 12 duplex receptacles off that single 2p breaker.

 

-This doesn't necessarily apply to you but there is 2 different kind of 240 volt the 6-XXR which is 3wires and the 14-XXR which is 4wire and provides 120 and 240.

[knightslugger]

1 minute ago, hickory said:

Do you already have a 220V receptacle installed at the location?

nope, this will be a 100% new installation.

 

6 minutes ago, JokerProduction said:

Your a bit off and its not going to be as easy as your hoping.

 

-Your biggest issue is not going from 120 to 240 but going from 15A to 20A . Your current 115 will be wired with 14g wire YOU MUST use 12G wire for a 20A circuit.  This means that an entirely new run of wire has to be ran from the panel to the receptacle.

 

-Now if you decide you dont need the 20A capacity you can switch the 120 to 240 fairly simply by using the neutral to a 2p 15A breaker and using tape to colour the white wire. and of course installing the corresponding 6-15R  receptacle

 

-You will Need a 2p Breaker (A fault on either line will cause both breakers to trip) A breaker tie bar can also be used.

 

-By code you can have up to 12 duplex receptacles off that single 2p breaker.

 

-This doesn't necessarily apply to you but there is 2 different kind of 240 volt the 6-XXR which is 3wires and the 14-XXR which is 4wire and provides 120 and 240.

I wont need 20A capacity on each receptacle, but i will need at least 30-40A on the one home run, which i know will require the heavier gauge wire. since this is a new installation, this will make it easier. I'm a little foggy on how each receptacle will be daisy chained. if i have 5.5A on the first receptacle, and 5.5A on the next one, and 5.5A on the next one, that first receptacle and line will see 16.5A, right?

[JokerProduction]

13 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

nope, this will be a 100% new installation.

 

I wont need 20A capacity on each receptacle, but i will need at least 30-40A on the one home run, which i know will require the heavier gauge wire. since this is a new installation, this will make it easier. I'm a little foggy on how each receptacle will be daisy chained. if i have 5.5A on the first receptacle, and 5.5A on the next one, and 5.5A on the next one, that first receptacle and line will see 16.5A, right?

What your describing is called tapped conductor feeding and it is not Allowed especially in a residential setting.  Its only allowed for circuits feeding lights.  (think big banks of fluorescent lights in shopping centers) and even then its not likely done unless there is a engineered drawing and spec you are working from.  Most electricians will just run separate circuits.

 

The receptacle and the breaker have to match If the receptacle is 20A rated the breaker has to be a 20A breaker.(regardless of how many 20A breakers you put on the same circuit)  The breaker is there to protect the wire NOT the load.

 

That being said your solution is to run a separate circuit and run for each plug you want.  Its the only way to meet code.  So if you want 5  240V 15A receptacles you will need 5 2p 15A breakers, 5 runs of #14 wire, and five 6-15R receptacles.

[knightslugger]

3 hours ago, JokerProduction said:

What your describing is called tapped conductor feeding and it is not Allowed especially in a residential setting.  Its only allowed for circuits feeding lights.  (think big banks of fluorescent lights in shopping centers) and even then its not likely done unless there is a engineered drawing and spec you are working from.  Most electricians will just run separate circuits.

 

The receptacle and the breaker have to match If the receptacle is 20A rated the breaker has to be a 20A breaker.(regardless of how many 20A breakers you put on the same circuit)  The breaker is there to protect the wire NOT the load.

 

That being said your solution is to run a separate circuit and run for each plug you want.  Its the only way to meet code.  So if you want 5  240V 15A receptacles you will need 5 2p 15A breakers, 5 runs of #14 wire, and five 6-15R receptacles.

Gotcha. So i couldn't use 15A duplex outlets. they have to be single? or is each receptacle it's own 15A circuit requiring it's own 15A 2P breaker regardless of configuration?

 

So if i run a single #14 wire to a box, they have to be this:

 

And not this:

 

Or i'd have to run two #12 wires to the box from a 30A 2P breaker if i duplex. do i understand that right?

 

no, the duplex is still 15A total, to only a 15A 2P breaker, but i could install 2 PSUs on the one box. PLEASE tell me i'm getting it...

[JokerProduction]

2 hours ago, knightslugger said:

Gotcha. So i couldn't use 15A duplex outlets. they have to be single? or is each receptacle it's own 15A circuit requiring it's own 15A 2P breaker regardless of configuration?

 

So if i run a single #14 wire to a box, they have to be this:

 

And not this:

 

Or i'd have to run two #12 wires to the box from a 30A 2P breaker if i duplex. do i understand that right?

 

no, the duplex is still 15A total, to only a 15A 2P breaker, but i could install 2 PSUs on the one box. PLEASE tell me i'm getting it...

you can install up two twelve of either receptacle but its still going to be limited by the breaker.

 

240x15=3600W of power capacity which can be shared among up to 12 of either of those receptacles you posted.(duplex is the norm so A therotical 24points of connection) 

 

You say the power supply is max of 1600w and you want 2 for a total of 3200w which is below the max of a single 2p 15A breaker of the 3600W we found above..  A third would not be possible and would be overloading the circuit and would be popping the breaker as it would then pull 4800W. (its likely that the real load will be  much less as the power supplies aren't going to be running at full tilt but its good practice to use theoretical maxes to avoid nuisance tripping)

 

#14 Wire is required between the breaker and the receptacle and between any additional receptacles you add.  you would normally use what is called 14/2 Romex or Lumex wire NMD90 is the trade name.  Its 2 #14 wires and a bare ground wire wrapped in a single sheath covering and is the norm in most residential wood framed buildings.

[knightslugger]

20 minutes ago, JokerProduction said:

you can install up two twelve of either receptacle but its still going to be limited by the breaker. 240x15=3600W of power capacity which can be shared among up to 12 of either of those receptacles you posted.(duplex is the norm)  you say the power supply is max of 1600w and you want 2 for a total of 3200w which is doable with a single duplex receptacle with a single 2p breaker.  A third would not be possible and would be overloading the circuit and would be popping the breaker as it would then pull 4800W.

So two machines per run, maximum. Is there any way to get 4 per breaker?

 

I must confess, you've been incredibly patient with me, and SUPER helpful.

[JokerProduction]

6 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

So two machines per run, maximum. Is there any way to get 4 per breaker?

 

I must confess, you've been incredibly patient with me, and SUPER helpful.

No matter what your limited to 3600W Which is determined by the breaker which is determined by the wire size which is determined by the load/receptacle.  So you could only run 4 on a single circuit if they were 900W power supplies or less.

 

To run 4  1600w power supplies your going to need 2 circuits consisting of 2 x 2p 15A breakers, 2 runs of #14/2 Romex, and 2 Duplex receptacles.

[JokerProduction]

Another thing to consider is if you have 3000+w of electronics in a room that is going to give off a fair amount of heat.  You may need some form of additional cooling or room ventilation to keep the power supplies from overheating...  What exactly are these power supplies going to be feeding?

[knightslugger]

20 minutes ago, JokerProduction said:

No matter what your limited to 3600W Which is determined by the breaker which is determined by the wire size which is determined by the load/receptacle.  So you could only run 4 on a single circuit if they were 900W power supplies or less.

 

To run 4  1600w power supplies your going to need 2 circuits consisting of 2 x 2p 15A breakers, 2 runs of #14/2 Romex, and 2 Duplex receptacles.

So if I start with a 30A breaker, run 10/3 gauge wire (or 8/3, whatever it takes) to four 30A receptacles, is that possible? I'm really aiming for 4 per breaker here and I don't want to be a code violation. That would be a tremendous help for other facilities in the future.

 

10 minutes ago, JokerProduction said:

Another thing to consider is if you have 3000+w of electronics in a room that is going to give off a fair amount of heat.  You may need some form of additional cooling to keep the power supplies from overheating...  What exactly are these power supplies going to be feeding?

I am aware of the cooling needs and i have a plan for that as well. It won't be cheap, but it's what I have to do. At least winter in the Northwoods of Wisconsin will help. Summer is going to suck but thankfully summers haven't been too terrible lately. It's a project I have in mind for a shooting hut solution. I want to build a small cabin so that we can shoot long range rifles indoors in the summer and winter months, but heating and cooling will be a problem. My solution was to make the shack pull double duty as a small non-gpu mining operation to solve my HVAC concern. the rigs will heat the shack in the winter, AC needed in the summer will keep it cool, and the shack will provide cover from the elements year round.

[JokerProduction]

Your getting the idea.  From a code standpoint you absolutely can run a 2p 30A breaker with #10wire(possibly 8 depending on distance) to up to 12 240v 30A (6-30R) receptacles (there are no duplex receptacles for this size)  30AX240V for a total capacity of 7200W which is more than enough for 4 1600W power supplies.

 

Where it gets a little grey is that you are going to have to modify the equipment plug ends to fit into the 30A receptacles and generally modifying a certified piece of electrical equipment is frowned upon but not against code.  Still the preferred and more common way is to run each on its own circuit.  What is your reasoning for requiring to have 4 onto a single breaker? With seperate circuits there is the advantage that if one power supply has a fault of some sort and trips the breaker its not going to shut down your other 3 rigs.

 

I Would also recommend having a chat with a local electrician as well as these are code minimums and as such the local Authority can have more stringent requirements than the minimum the code requires.  Its not uncommon to do something that complies with code and have the inspector come and tell you to redo it a certain way.  It may be worth seeing if you can talk to a local inspector and see what he would require as this is getting away from a common electrical installation and they tend to really pick it apart when its something out of the ordinary and especially if they know the homeowner did the work.  When you apply for the permit you will probably have to provide a pretty good description/drawings of what your doing anyway.

 

 

 

[knightslugger]

On 9/7/2017 at 0:38 AM, JokerProduction said:

What is your reasoning for requiring to have 4 onto a single breaker?

Purely convenience. I can get 4 per shelf. I see the wisdom of individual breakers though. I'll have to give that some thought.

 

Thanks for your help!