Ryzen memory question

[Simon771]

I have B350M mortar motherboard and R7 1700 CPU.

When I bought motherboard, I also checked what RAM does it support, so I went ahead and bought one from the list, that should run at 3200MHz.

 

I did try to use only 1 stick of RAM, changed the order many times. Cleared CMOS, updated my BIOS version. I can't get it to work on 3200MHz.

I can run it on 2933MHz CL14 without any problems, but 3200MHz won't work even at CL20. I'm pretty sure 2933MHz at CL14 is better than 3200MHz CL20, but I still wanted to test it. Also increased voltage from 1,35V to 1,45V ... didn't help. I changed other timings aswell ... didn't work. Changing NB voltage ... didn't work.

Since RAM speed is important for Ryzen, I do want to get that sweet 3200MHz, so I contacted MSI about that.

 

First they asked me if I have done those steps that I first mentioned. I told them that I did, and I got respond:

 

Quote

Regarding your concern,we have consulted with the relevant departments,this issue is caused by cpu quality.If possible,we would suggest you change another cpu model to check again.Thanks!

Could CPU realy impact on capability of RAM speed?

[Skanky Sylveon]

It's ether the CPU or the motherboard, of course MSI is going to blame the CPU.  I would suspect the motherboard before the CPU.

[DrMikeNZ]

RAM speed isn't essential for Ryzen in a large number of tasks. While it has been reported to improve performance in a couple of situations, running 3200cl14 on Ryzen only gave me a 1% performance increase over 2133MHz. The difference between 2933 and 3200 would not be worth the effort.

 

Motherboard BIOS updates can help with RAM overclocking as long as the motherboard is the limiting factor, however the most importing limiting factor in Ryzen RAM overclocks is the IMC on the processor itself, if you get a CPU with poor IMC, then you won't get any better on your RAM OC.

 

Just be happy you aren't limited to 2666 MHz.

[Simon771]

51 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

It's ether the CPU or the motherboard, of course MSI is going to blame the CPU.  I would suspect the motherboard before the CPU.

That's what I'm also thinking ... they would blame CPU, because most customers won't just go any buy new CPU to test this lol

18 minutes ago, DrMikeNZ said:

RAM speed isn't essential for Ryzen in a large number of tasks. While it has been reported to improve performance in a couple of situations, running 3200cl14 on Ryzen only gave me a 1% performance increase over 2133MHz. The difference between 2933 and 3200 would not be worth the effort.

 

Motherboard BIOS updates can help with RAM overclocking as long as the motherboard is the limiting factor, however the most importing limiting factor in Ryzen RAM overclocks is the IMC on the processor itself, if you get a CPU with poor IMC, then you won't get any better on your RAM OC.

 

Just be happy you aren't limited to 2666 MHz.

Did some research and you are correct. It's indeed limited by Ryzen IMC.

Since I got R7 1700, it could be that this chip wasn't performing great and that's the reason why it's branded as 1700 instead of 1800X.

 

Well I would be running 3200MHz at CL16 (that's what RAM supports)

But I'm noe stuck with 2933 CL14. Since timings are lower (better), it could be performing just as good as 3200 at CL16 I guess.

 

3200/16 = 200

2933/14 = 209,5

 

There is aso some talking going around for new BIOS updates on Ryzen motherboard that should come out this month. Will see what that'll bring.

[DrMikeNZ]

3 minutes ago, Simon771 said:

Since I got R7 1700, it could be that this chip wasn't performing great and that's the reason why it's branded as 1700 instead of 1800X.

I would like to say that is true, although my R7 1700 does run at 3200cl14. I have also heard reports of 1800X which didn't do as well on memory OC.

AMD only certify the processors to 2666 MHz, anything above that is untested.

 

I am running AGESA 1.0.0.6 BIOS, and it opened up a lot of manual timing control for tweaking stability which can help in some situations, although I don't expect miracles with improved OC for most people. 2933cl14 is perfectly fine.

[Simon771]

2 minutes ago, DrMikeNZ said:

I would like to say that is true, although my R7 1700 does run at 3200cl14. I have also heard reports of 1800X which didn't do as well on memory OC.

AMD only certify the processors to 2666 MHz, anything above that is untested.

 

I am running AGESA 1.0.0.6 BIOS, and it opened up a lot of manual timing control for tweaking stability which can help in some situations, although I don't expect miracles with improved OC for most people. 2933cl14 is perfectly fine.

3200MHz at CL14 must be great.

B350M mortar doesn't have that great BIOS. As expected for mATX motherboard.

[porina]

2 hours ago, Simon771 said:

Could CPU realy impact on capability of RAM speed?

Yes, since overall performance depends on all of the memory controller on CPU, mobo, ram and settings in between.

1 hour ago, DrMikeNZ said:

RAM speed isn't essential for Ryzen in a large number of tasks. While it has been reported to improve performance in a couple of situations, running 3200cl14 on Ryzen only gave me a 1% performance increase over 2133MHz. The difference between 2933 and 3200 would not be worth the effort.

But when it does make a difference, it really makes a difference. There's also the side benefit of increasing the fabric speed on Ryzen even if you don't need the ram speed in itself.

25 minutes ago, DrMikeNZ said:

I am running AGESA 1.0.0.6 BIOS, and it opened up a lot of manual timing control for tweaking stability which can help in some situations, although I don't expect miracles with improved OC for most people. 2933cl14 is perfectly fine.

1.0.0.6 made a huge difference with a Corsair LPX 3000 kit on an Asus board. Early bios got to 2400 on a good day. 1.0.0.4a got to 2666. With 1.0.0.6 beta bios I got 2933 stable, 3066 unstable. All without tinkering on settings. Of course there are no guarantees, but I think 1.0.0.6 will signal the start of Ryzen ram compatibility maturity.

31 minutes ago, DrMikeNZ said:

AMD only certify the processors to 2666 MHz, anything above that is untested.

Agreed. Above that, you're essentially overclocking and it isn't guaranteed. Same applies on Intel boards too, although most of those have a lower rated speed for now.

[Skanky Sylveon]

15 minutes ago, porina said:

But when it does make a difference, it really makes a difference. There's also the side benefit of increasing the fabric speed on Ryzen even if you don't need the ram speed in itself.

I read somewhere that Ryzen's Infinity fabric updates at the same speed as your ram.  While I don't know the details, that would mean that faster ram would speed up part of the CPU itself.

[DrMikeNZ]

Just now, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I read somewhere that Ryzen's Infinity fabric updates at the same speed as your ram.  While I don't know the details, that would mean that faster ram would speed up part of the CPU itself.

Yes, the infinity fabric is tied to the RAM speed. However, this only will impact programs with sequential calculations where one cores results are passed onto another. This is often seen in game physics engines. Many applications which perform this type of calculation are not very well multi-threaded and typically won't make use of the whole CPU as they are have a lot of inactive wait times and not have enough tasks to keep the whole processor busy.

Most applications that make full use of a large core count hyper-threaded processor such as the R7 1700 won't notice any difference with increased infinity fabric speed.

[Skanky Sylveon]

1 minute ago, DrMikeNZ said:

Yes, the infinity fabric is tied to the RAM speed. However, this only will impact programs with sequential calculations where one cores results are passed onto another. This is often seen in game physics engines. Many applications which perform this type of calculation are not very well multi-threaded and typically won't make use of the whole CPU as they are have a lot of inactive wait times and not have enough tasks to keep the whole processor busy.

Most applications that make full use of a large core count hyper-threaded processor such as the R7 1700 won't notice any difference with increased infinity fabric speed.

I figured as much, I didn't do much research on the topic however, so I didn't know how important it was.

[Evanair]

The BIOS updates are being tested through betas on the top tier boards from each vendor. Once those are solid, expect the code to make it's way down.