Directx 12 -- Dead API Walking?

[othertomperson]

It's quickly approaching two years since this "new" API was released and there are still no more games than someone from Norfolk could count on one webbed hand. Vulkan is faring even worse. As much as it takes time to develop games that use a new API, it's been two years. I'd expect to see something, and I'd expect to rate of releases using it to accelerate over that time, not seemingly stop entirely after an initial burst. I guess tying it to a desperatly unpopular OS wasn't the best move either...

[Leonard]

Using the new APIs are for the game devs. to do, they are the ones that are being lazy and only using what they already have coded for.

[cj09beira]

Well people take time to learn new things and with dx12 and vulkan there is more responsibility in the hands of devs for things like optimization sli support ect.

Even worse is the fact that most game studios are constantly being puched to relase games as fast as possible and that leads to less time to try new things such as dx12 and vulkan

[TheNeonWhiteOne]

many games have about a 3 year development period so they may have started on dx11 and don't want to waste time moving it to dx12. probably another year or 2 and then it'll be most new games

[KuJoe]

3 minutes ago, TheNeonWhiteOne said:

many games have about a 3 year development period so they may have started on dx11 and don't want to waste time moving it to dx12. probably another year or 2 and then it'll be most new games

I agree, two years is not long enough. DX12 is still too new.

[UglyDuckiling]

DX11 took off faster TBH.

 

We had BF Bad Company 2 using full on Direct X 11, better code path, and added 32xAA support for Nvidia and soft shadows.

 

DX12 gives us negative gains lol.

[leelaa14]

DX 12 Is simply shit.

[KuJoe]

23 minutes ago, UglyDuckiling said:

DX12 gives us negative gains lol.

I personally like the FPS increase I get from DX12. I can't wait for it to be adopted for future games.

[cj09beira]

The problem with low level apis is that they are harder to code for and the gains seen will be dependent on the devs ability to code well at this lower abstraction layer so we will see games with huge perf gains and some with almost none.

Dont forget also that some games avalible today are "really" dx12 they are dx12 coee duck taped on to a dx11 game

[cj09beira]

In my opinion dx should be left in the dust and vulkan should be the future. After all who will want to code just for half the market of the pc when they can code for vulkan and have full win 7/8/10 support and a easy time porting it for other platforms tooplus its more open and there are midware being created to allow devs with less experience or time to code for it without needing to go that deep

[TheNeonWhiteOne]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

In my opinion dx should be left in the dust and vulkan should be the future. After all who will want to code just for half the market of the pc when they can code for vulkan and have full win 7/8/10 support and a easy time porting it for other platforms tooplus its more open and there are midware being created to allow devs with less experience or time to code for it without needing to go that deep

i agree but Microsoft and their billions won't let that happen sadly.

[cj09beira]

3 hours ago, TheNeonWhiteOne said:

i agree but Microsoft and their billions won't let that happen sadly.

true, and so many devs only knowing dx c# ect :-(

 

[ivan134]

Uhh what?

 

ROTTR

The Division

Sniper Elite 4

Gears of War 4

Deus Ex Mankind Divided

Battlefield 1

Ashes of the Singularity

Total War: Warhammer

Total War: Warhammer 2

Civilization 6

Halo Wars 2

Forza Horizon 3

Hitman

 

1st the argument was that it would take a billion years for there to be DX 12 games, now people are moving the goal post to there aren't a billion games after 2 years?

[ivan134]

5 hours ago, UglyDuckiling said:

DX11 took off faster TBH.

 

We had BF Bad Company 2 using full on Direct X 11, better code path, and added 32xAA support for Nvidia and soft shadows.

 

DX12 gives us negative gains lol.

False. There are only negative gains with an Nvidia card. Most dx 12 games work fine now after patches.

[othertomperson]

2 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Uhh what?

 

ROTTR

The Division

Sniper Elite 4

Gears of War 4

Deus Ex Mankind Divided

Battlefield 1

Ashes of the Singularity

Total War: Warhammer

Total War: Warhammer 2

Civilization 6

Halo Wars 2

Forza Horizon 3

Hitman

 

1st the argument was that it would take a billion years for there to be DX 12 games, now people are moving the goal post to there aren't a billion games after 2 years?

We're halfway through 2017 -- where are the new games? Dx12 development seems to have completely stalled.

[ivan134]

47 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

We're halfway through 2017 -- where are the new games? Dx12 development seems to have completely stalled.

Based on what? Serious question because I don't know.

[PlayStation 2]

It takes time. Really, Windows 10 has been out for a little under two years. Expect more titles to take advantage of DX12 around the Holiday season.

[UglyDuckiling]

5 hours ago, ivan134 said:

False. There are only negative gains with an Nvidia card. Most dx 12 games work fine now after patches.

Not noticed any gains with my 580's.

[ivan134]

1 minute ago, UglyDuckiling said:

Not noticed any gains with my 580's.

In what games?

[ivan134]

1 minute ago, UglyDuckiling said:

Not noticed any gains with my 580's.

There are only 2 DX 12 games I can think of that are broken and give less performance than dx11 on AMD cards; BF1 and quantum break.

[othertomperson]

2 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Based on what? Serious question because I don't know.

Based on what? I can't name a single Dx12 game that was released this side of Christmas. There was an initial flurry of games that supported both APIs, but primarily were Dx11 games, and since then nothing.

 

I'll say it before and I'll say it again, though, this AMD vs Nvidia argument has nothing to do with Dx12 and everything to do with Dx11. If Nvidia manages to get lower level hardware access via the Dx11 driver than AMD then Nvidia's Dx11 and Dx12 performance will look more similar than AMD's. It suits AMD's PR narrative to not optimise Dx11 drivers in order to show off a bigger delta between the two, while Nvidia's PR seems to be based around raw numbers. That doesn't make the game, or the card broken.

 

Ultimately if the 1060 is better in Dx11 than the 580 is in Dx12, then does it really matter if AMD's delta between the two APIs is bigger? I'm not saying this is always the case, but highlighting why the reality is more complex than "Nvidia's use of Dx12 is borked" meme that so unthinkingly spread around.

 

26 minutes ago, UglyDuckiling said:

Not noticed any gains with my 580's.

For a moment I thought you meant GTX 580s  Shame, those cards would really benefit form Dx12 support.

[KuJoe]

The only DX12 game I own and play is Deus Ex: MD with the following benchmark results:

 

DX11 = Min: 15FPS, Avg: 30FPS, Max: 46FPS

DX12 = Min: 32FPS, Avg: 42FPS, Max: 53FPS

 

Not bad improvements for just checking a box.

[ivan134]

20 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

Based on what? I can't name a single Dx12 game that was released this side of Christmas. There was an initial flurry of games that supported both APIs, but primarily were Dx11 games, and since then nothing.

 

I'll say it before and I'll say it again, though, this AMD vs Nvidia argument has nothing to do with Dx12 and everything to do with Dx11. If Nvidia manages to get lower level hardware access via the Dx11 driver than AMD then Nvidia's Dx11 and Dx12 performance will look more similar than AMD's. It suits AMD's PR narrative to not optimise Dx11 drivers in order to show off a bigger delta between the two, while Nvidia's PR seems to be based around raw numbers. That doesn't make the game, or the card broken.

 

Ultimately if the 1060 is better in Dx11 than the 580 is in Dx12, then does it really matter if AMD's delta between the two APIs is bigger? I'm not saying this is always the case, but highlighting why the reality is more complex than "Nvidia's use of Dx12 is borked" meme that so unthinkingly spread around.

 

For a moment I thought you meant GTX 580s  Shame, those cards would really benefit form Dx12 support.

Except AMD's DX 12 performance is better than Nvidia's DX 11 performance in the games I mentioned with the exceptions being the ones I stated above. Also, "this side of Christmas" is a strange parameter and not actually indicative of anything, but since you asked, sniper elite 4 and Halo wars 2 were released "this side of Christmas".

[ivan134]

You also seem to be forgetting that PC is getting every Xbox exclusive from now on in case you're wondering which DX 12 games are on the works.

[othertomperson]

12 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Except AMD's DX 12 performance is better than Nvidia's DX 11 performance in the games I mentioned with the exceptions being the ones I stated above. Also, "this side of Christmas" is a strange parameter and not actually indicative of anything, but since you asked, sniper elite 4 and Halo wars 2 were released "this side of Christmas".

I dunno if you want to measure the number of games released in 2017, measuring from the start of 2017 makes perfect sense to me... if you have a better way of deciding when 2017 began by all means chime in.