Windows 10s?

[Programkira]

Okay maybe I am late to the show here but I just saw this article on Arstechnica regarding windows 10S and had to share it here. "Windows 10 S blocks the execution of any program that wasn't downloaded from the windows store. Arbitrary downloaded apps, even with physical install media, are forbidden." For those of you like me who are security buffs this is a great thing as it positions Microsoft as a gatekeeper, and if you trust Microsoft to not allow malicious apps from getting on the store, then that's great, if you're still skeptical and don't 100% trust MSFT, then it's still not a bad thing as long as any other program you use for security is on the windows store. But this also means that programs that are mainstays of the Windows PC, like photoshop or Steam got a big fat banhammer from Microsoft. What are people's thoughts on this? Do you want it to succeed like the author of the arstechnica article wants you to? If it hasn't been brought up already, maybe whoever is on the next Wan show can weigh in. 

[randomhkkid]

Microsoft has started a program where developers can submit apps to be in the store. IIRC the adobe sweet is already on board with this. 

 

In terms of Windows 10S itself I'm annoyed that it isn't just a software switch rather than a seperate OS and that they are charging $50 extra to essentially turn off the enhanced security mode.

[KenjiUmino]

7 minutes ago, Programkira said:

Arbitrary downloaded apps, even with physical install media, are forbidden.

 

But this also means that programs that are mainstays of the Windows PC, like photoshop or Steam got a big fat banhammer from Microsoft. 

i am getting a bit confused about this. 

 

steam, photoshop and the likes is what i used to call "programs" - they are usually installed via some setup.exe and started via an .exe file as well 

 

"apps" on the other hand always meant the kind of stuff you download from the store - usually not meant to be installed manually.

 

skype for example has an "app" version you get from the store and a "program" version. both versions looked and behaved different. (dunno if they still do, haven't used any apps for months)

 

does windows even differentiate between the two internally ? like, do they have differend file extensions ? (.exe and .app or something like that) ?

[GoodBytes]

39 minutes ago, Programkira said:

Okay maybe I am late to the show here but I just saw this article on Arstechnica regarding windows 10S and had to share it here. "Windows 10 S blocks the execution of any program that wasn't downloaded from the windows store. Arbitrary downloaded apps, even with physical install media, are forbidden." For those of you like me who are security buffs this is a great thing as it positions Microsoft as a gatekeeper, and if you trust Microsoft to not allow malicious apps from getting on the store, then that's great, if you're still skeptical and don't 100% trust MSFT, then it's still not a bad thing as long as any other program you use for security is on the windows store. But this also means that programs that are mainstays of the Windows PC, like photoshop or Steam got a big fat banhammer from Microsoft. What are people's thoughts on this? Do you want it to succeed like the author of the arstechnica article wants you to? If it hasn't been brought up already, maybe whoever is on the next Wan show can weigh in. 

So then you might be interested that in Windows 10 Home/Pro/Enterprise you can lock to Store only. The option is found under Start > Settings > Apps > App & Features. (You need Creators Update). When you enable it, it will block FUTURE non-Store apps from running. In other words, you can install say, Firefox or Chrome and iTunes, and other classic Win32 programs not found today in the Store, and then you can lock from that point on. So a user can still run Chrome, Firefox, iTunes, etc. But if they go and download, say, VLC (assuming it is not installed before the locked was enabled), it will be blocked with the same pop-up as Window 10 S.

 

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, KenjiUmino said:

i am getting a bit confused about this. 

 

steam, photoshop and the likes is what i used to call "programs" - they are usually installed via some setup.exe and started via an .exe file as well 

 

"apps" on the other hand always meant the kind of stuff you download from the store - usually not meant to be installed manually.

 

skype for example has an "app" version you get from the store and a "program" version. both versions looked and behaved different. (dunno if they still do, haven't used any apps for months)

 

does windows even differentiate between the two internally ? like, do they have differend file extensions ? (.exe and .app or something like that) ?

Hmm... no.

Programs are compiled code that is not currently running on the system. A game is a program. Chrome is a program as well.

Process is a actively running program.

 

App is shorten word for Applications. An Application is a a category of Software. A Software can be a Game or an Application. A software is a program or process

 

If you check the Store, you'll see: Apps and Games listed.

Under Apps or Games, you can have Universal Windows Platform (UWP) made software and Win32 packaged as UWP software. UWP is a sandboxed and managed platformed for software. Meaning, every UWP software are sandboxed, and auto-updated via the Store system as updates are delivered by the devs to it. For programs that were not packaged as UWP (native UWP apps), they can operate on any system running Windows 10, including HoloLens, Windows 10 Mobile, and Windows 10 IoT, and anything else that may come.

[KenjiUmino]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Programs are compiled code that is not currently running on the system. A game is a program. Chrome is a program as well.

Process is a actively running program.

i did know this - an "app" is nothing else than a "program" in how it works technically. 

 

i was more about how i use the two terms to differentiate one from the other and wondered if windows differentiates between the two as well.

 

7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Under Apps, you can have Universal Windows Platform (UWP) made software and Win32 packaged as UWP software. UWP is a sandboxed and managed platformed for software. Meaning, every UWP software are sandboxed, and auto-updated via the Store system

i did not know this. thanks 

 

so the difference is UWP - even if the app is nothing more than a regular win32 program inside an UWP package, right?

 

 

 

[GoodBytes]

13 minutes ago, KenjiUmino said:

so the difference is UWP - even if the app is nothing more than a regular win32 program inside an UWP package, right?

Yup!

 

So the only work that needs to be done by a dev to port their WIn32 app in a nutshell:

• Package their app as UWP
• As there is no setup, the program itself needs to do the first run work, or do the setup config of the package for the Store to execute when installing
• Remove the app update system (if any), as the Store will take over.
• Test and publish

Addition work will be required if the app is using DRM system as the program in question will be fully sandboxed so it doesn't have the same abilities as Win32 which is restriction free (beside account limitation).

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

App is shorten word for Applications. An Application is a a category of Software. A Software can be a Game or an Application. A software is a program or process

Slight nitpicking here.

 

Software in general falls into two categories, broadly speaking: system and application. Generically speaking, system software provides services to other software and is usually lower level. So software like the OS and drivers are system software. Application software provides a service to the user and usually has to run on top of system software in order to work.

[GoodBytes]

21 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Slight nitpicking here.

 

Software in general falls into two categories, broadly speaking: system and application. Generically speaking, system software provides services to other software and is usually lower level. So software like the OS and drivers are system software. Application software provides a service to the user and usually has to run on top of system software in order to work.

Yes, very true, apologies. Applications is the one that split in sub-sections which are broad set , and includes: games, web browser, word processing, etc.

[KenjiUmino]

ok ... then windows 10s looks like another attempt to keep users inside a walled garden by locking out anything that does not have a "microsoft approved" sticker on it (aka: installed from the windows store)

 

this could be a positive thing since it prevents stupid users from installing and running random crap on their system that is potentially infected. 

 

the downside is that it prevents the use of free alternatives to commercial software - libreoffice, gimp, etc. 

 

if no one bothers to put it on the store, it's not happening.

 

IMO, the best use for windows 10s would be to put it on pre-built off-the-shelf computers sold at best buy and the likes wich are bought primarily by clueless ignorant people that don't know what the f*ck they are doing and don't care about free alternatives anyway. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

I think the whole walled garden scare is just that, a scare. Apple doesn't block Chrome, Firefox, and other web browsers from iOS while happily pushing Safari. Google doesn't block Outlook and other email programs in favor of Inbox/Gmail. Any attempt at a first party blocking third party applications or strongly suggesting their own apps will just be met with backlash and anger.

 

Of course, that really hasn't stopped Microsoft so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ssinc]

I successfully got win32 apps working on 10s. RTM release on the surface laptop. Just putting it out there. It does require a very specific process though.