CPU for gaming

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, ripper101 said:

You say for gaming the Ryzen CPUs are better?

Yes, for the user. Run a Ryzen equiped PC with the resolution matched to the graphics card and you'll see. Same fps as an Intel system with smoother frametimes. 

[ripper101]

4 minutes ago, App4that said:

 with the resolution matched to the graphics card

What does that mean?

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, ripper101 said:

What does that mean?

You don't game at 1080p using a 1080ti. Well, you shouldn't. If you're at 1080p and use a RX 580, guess what, you get the same fps as an Intel build with better frametimes. Have a 1080ti, at 4k you get the same fps and better frametimes withn a Ryzen CPU. Have a 1070? You get the picture...

 

The excuss that you're "testing the CPU for the future" is bull shit. No one knows what future games will want, and in 2 years you'll still be playing your games at resolutions meant for your graphics card. Intel only wins in situations no one plays at. That's not winning. 

[ripper101]

4 minutes ago, App4that said:

You don't game at 1080p using a 1080ti. Well, you shouldn't. If you're at 1080p and use a RX 580, guess what, you get the same fps as an Intel build with better frametimes. Have a 1080ti, at 4k you get the same fps and better frametimes withn a Ryzen CPU. Have a 1070? You get the picture...

 

The excuss that you're "testing the CPU for the future" is bull shit. No one knows what future games will want, and in 2 years you'll still be playing your games at resolutions meant for your graphics card. Intel only wins in situations no one plays at. That's not winning. 

 

So a 1070 is okay at 1080p?

[Kenrou]

Stop confusing OP please. At 1080p/1440p the 6700k/7700k beats Ryzen sometimes by a mile, there's dozens if not hundreds of benchmarks by now that show this. Even if the IPC was the same (which it isn't, Ryzen is closest to a 4*** then 6***/7***) he would still not be able to beat 4.7ghz+ overclock that the Intel's run at. Like i said, purely for gaming the Intel's still win. AMD's edge goes for performance/price ratio, you can get a 1700 8c/16t for the same price as a 7700k 4c/8t. It will run hotter, it will overclock much less but will compete and sometimes beat the 8c/16t from Intel in productivity/multitasking, NOT gaming unless you get yourself a 1080ti/Titan Xp and go 4K where most of the work is done by the GPU.

 

Simply put :

 

1080p/1440p - 6700k/7700k is better but more expensive

4K - Ryzen is roughly the same as a 8c/16t from Intel but cheaper (even a 8350 overclocked will run decently at this resolution)

 

 

 

[App4that]

3 hours ago, Kenrou said:

Stop confusing OP please.

 

Why not take your own advice? Those benchmarks show an artificial bottleneck, no one games at those resolutions using those cards...

 

18 hours ago, ripper101 said:

So a 1070 is okay at 1080p?

Really good, 1070 is a solid 1080p/1440 card.

[Kenrou]

55 minutes ago, App4that said:

Why not take your own advice? Those benchmarks show an artificial bottleneck, no one games at those resolutions using those cards...

You're confusing COULD with SHOULD. Plenty of people bought 1080ti's and still have 1080p screens (it's one of the top 3 most used resolutions), i know 2 myself. Deux Ex: Mankind Divided for example needs at least a 1080 for 1080p 60fps with settings maxed. The videos themselves are a good mix of GPU and CPU bottlenecks, neither just one or the other like fanboys like to post.

 

It's one thing to delude yourself, its quite another to try to fool someone to buy something just because you like it. FOR GAMING 1080p/1440p a 6700k/7700k will beat any Ryzen so far. Only reason i don't recommend buying Intel at this stage its simply because its damned expensive, but it doesn't change the simple fact that they are still better/faster at lower then 4K.

[App4that]

Just now, Kenrou said:

You're confusing COULD with SHOULD. Plenty of people bought 1080ti's and still have 1080p screens (it's one of the top 3 most used resolutions), i know 2 myself. Deux Ex: Mankind Divided for example needs at least a 1080 for 1080p 60fps with settings maxed. The videos themselves are a good mix of GPU and CPU bottlenecks, neither just one or the other like fanboys like to post.

 

It's one thing to delude yourself, its quite another to try to fool someone to buy something just because you like it. FOR GAMING 1080p/1440p a 6700k/7700k will beat any Ryzen so far. Only reason i don't recommend buying Intel at this stage its simply because its damned expensive, but it doesn't change the simple fact that they are still better/faster at lower then 4K.

Um, wrong. 

 

The differences at 1080p using a card like a 1080ti are nothing the user can see. The benefit to 1% lows using Ryzen and the smoother gameplay because of the better frametimes, is. 

 

 

[Kenrou]

27 minutes ago, App4that said:

Um, wrong. 

 

The differences at 1080p using a card like a 1080ti are nothing the user can see. The benefit to 1% lows using Ryzen and the smoother gameplay because of the better frametimes, is. 

 

 

Um, right.

 

The 1st part of my post is fact not opinion.

 

For the 2nd part - "FOR GAMING 1080p/1440p a 6700k/7700k will beat any Ryzen so far." - How many videos, how many testimonies, how many people do you need that say "Intel is faster" at X resolution until it sinks in ? As much as i want AMD to be top dog, it simply isn't. Especially with the 1080p bug (http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/amd-explains-why-ryzen-doesnt-seem-to-keep-up-in-1080p-gaming/). It's simple math as i said in a previous post, less IPC and less overclock but more cores, it only comes close with games that use more then 4 cores as it should. If you play a game that is CPU bound Intel will win, if it's GPU bound at most you will get a tie. Plus you're only counting the games that are on the market now, you don't know if tomorrow something will be released that will drive a top CPU/GPU to it's knees even at 1080p, have seen it happen often in the past, in which case the Intel will likely have a little more value over the long run.

 

Out of curiosity (might have missed it), what resolution does OP play at, what's he's monitor, if needed will he upgrade anytime soon or will he stick with it for the next 2y-3y ?

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, Kenrou said:

snip

You're concentrating on a test that has no real world application, why most of the testers still say buy the Ryzen CPU. Then, you have the changes already happening like the AotS update where the Ryzen CPU beats the Intel offering in the test, with no real world application...

 

People don't buy a CPU to run tests, they work and game. Ryzen beats Intel at both. 

[Kenrou]

I'm concentrating on GAMING, 1st video is GAME benchmarks and the 2nd is 4K GAMING after 8m. You could at least bother to click before commenting no ? As an extreme example in Far Cry: Primal the 7700k had over 50fps over a Ryzen 1800x at certain points. The other games had anything between draw and 30fps. You are stating that Ryzen 1600x/1700x are faster for gaming 1080p then a 7700k and i have shown you proof that they are not.

 

This is why you never buy anything as soon as it comes out, wait a few months to make sure the devs have ironed out all the kinks. Ryzen will become better as times passes and more things become optimized for it, and it will become even more bang for buck. For the moment at least for me it's a wait and see, this rig doesn't need any updating for the foreseeable future but i will likely get a budget 1700 to replace my 8370 ~4.5ghz streaming/multitasking setup.

 

[ripper101]

On 5/1/2017 at 1:26 PM, Kenrou said:

 Out of curiosity (might have missed it), what resolution does OP play at, what's he's monitor, if needed will he upgrade anytime soon or will he stick with it for the next 2y-3y ?

3

Right now I'm using an i5 4440 at 1080p. After getting my new CPU I would upgrade it in the next 2 to 3 years like I am now.

[Kenrou]

IMHO depending on the motherboard you have now, if you are on a budget get a used 4790k and overclock it to at least 4.5ghz, it will give you roughly the same performance as a 6700k and it will be enough for your 1070. If you have money to splurge you can go 2 ways : if you only game get a 7700k, if you game+stream or do any sort of video encoding get a Ryzen 1600x. Be advised that either way (if you splurge) you will have to get a new motherboard, CPU, RAM and possibly cooler (don't know what you are using now)  

[ripper101]

7 hours ago, Kenrou said:

IMHO depending on the motherboard you have now, if you are on a budget get a used 4790k and overclock it to at least 4.5ghz, it will give you roughly the same performance as a 6700k and it will be enough for your 1070. If you have money to splurge you can go 2 ways : if you only game get a 7700k, if you game+stream or do any sort of video encoding get a Ryzen 1600x. Be advised that either way (if you splurge) you will have to get a new motherboard, CPU, RAM and possibly cooler (don't know what you are using now)  

 

My motherboard I have is an MSI B85M-G43 and I don't believe it fully supports an i7 because of Haswell Refresh (Also I don't really like to muck around with OC). I still don't have all the money I need but when I upgrade I want a notable jump in performance either path I take since I will be paying big bucks in almost every direction. I think I have settled my sights on a 1700 or 1700x (really only just because I wouldn't mind) unless Coffee Lake comes out by then with a 6c/12t CPU. I'm choosing this because I'd like the 8 cores for using applications whilst in-game and so on. 

[Kenrou]

Remember to get a good cooler, 8c/16t really heat up in the summer    

[ripper101]

1 hour ago, Kenrou said:

Remember to get a good cooler, 8c/16t really heat up in the summer    

what if It's not at 100 percent usage?  

[Kenrou]

It won't be most of the time, usually you only see that in benchmarks/stress tests/video encoding/fold  

[Spenser1337]

On 5/1/2017 at 8:01 AM, Kenrou said:

Stop confusing OP please. At 1080p/1440p the 6700k/7700k beats Ryzen sometimes by a mile, there's dozens if not hundreds of benchmarks by now that show this. Even if the IPC was the same (which it isn't, Ryzen is closest to a 4*** then 6***/7***) he would still not be able to beat 4.7ghz+ overclock that the Intel's run at. Like i said, purely for gaming the Intel's still win. AMD's edge goes for performance/price ratio, you can get a 1700 8c/16t for the same price as a 7700k 4c/8t. It will run hotter, it will overclock much less but will compete and sometimes beat the 8c/16t from Intel in productivity/multitasking, NOT gaming unless you get yourself a 1080ti/Titan Xp and go 4K where most of the work is done by the GPU.

 

Simply put :

 

1080p/1440p - 6700k/7700k is better but more expensive

4K - Ryzen is roughly the same as a 8c/16t from Intel but cheaper (even a 8350 overclocked will run decently at this resolution)

 

 

 

For the record it doesn't run hotter. That's factually incorrect, fake news.

[RAM555789]

I would go with the i7 7700k if you have a large budget otherwise go with a Ryzen 1600 and invest into the GPU and RAM some. I recommened getting at least 16gb of RAM for Arma 3 as it like to have memory leaks from time to time.

[30op]

The 7600k has good price to performance and has overclocking, if you can wait a year you may as well.

[Kenrou]

2 hours ago, Spenser1337 said:

For the record it doesn't run hotter. That's factually incorrect, fake news.

Only reason the 7700k runs hot is the crappy TIM and glue, replace it and it will drop 15c-30c, so what i said is factually correct. "fake news" ? trump supporter much ?

 

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/01/19/intel_kaby_lake_i77700k_cpu_delid_relid_results/

[Spenser1337]

8 minutes ago, Kenrou said:

Only reason the 7700k runs hot is the crappy TIM and glue, replace it and it will drop 15c-20c, so what i said is factually correct. "fake news" ? trump supporter much ?

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-1700x-review,4987-8.html

That article was written when ryzen had a 20c temperature offset, and even then it still ran cooler than the 7700k. 

 

I don't care why the 7700k runs hot, it just runs hot.

 

i should as a consumer, never ever ever have to delid my 350$ CPU to get better temps.

what you said is not factually correct, it's false. Don't make this political, I'm sure you're even more uneducated in that topic than you are in this one.

[jjohnthedon1]

On 27/04/2017 at 10:41 PM, RadiatingLight said:

7700K is the best gaming chip right now, but you really don't need such a powerful chip unless you want 144+ FPS. if you only want/need 60 max, you could be fine with a Ryzen 1600.

My 1600 is as good as my 4790k for high fps there's really not a lot in it at all and it's a much better price 

[ripper101]

4 hours ago, 30op said:

The 7600k has good price to performance and has overclocking, if you can wait a year you may as well.

Wait a year for what?

4 hours ago, RAM555789 said:

I would go with the i7 7700k if you have a large budget otherwise go with a Ryzen 1600 and invest into the GPU and RAM some. I recommened getting at least 16gb of RAM for Arma 3 as it like to have memory leaks from time to time.

 

It's an upgrade. Not building a new PC

[Kenrou]

18 minutes ago, Spenser1337 said:

That article was written when ryzen had a 20c temperature offset, and even then it still ran cooler than the 7700k. 

 

I don't care why the 7700k runs hot, it just runs hot.

 

i should as a consumer, never ever ever have to delid my 350$ CPU to get better temps.

what you said is not factually correct, it's false. Don't make this political, I'm sure you're even more uneducated in that topic than you are in this one.

Only the X versions of Ryzen have the 20c offset. You're right, you shouldn't, but unfortunately Intel doesn't care about you as much as your money so they cheap out on the TIM and glue and force many of us to delid. Also i HAVE delided every i5/i7 i ever had in the last 20 or so years that i devoted to this hobby and they all ran much cooler, so it's a case of proven profit.

 

As to politics, being in governmental position myself for more then a decade i would ask you politely to learn to take a joke and roll with it.

 

  Apologies to OP for the arguments, but these do tend to happen more often then not, all we can do is google a bit and check the facts for yourself