Frequency Responses

[DutchTexan]

14 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

I don't think you can go wrong with the Modi MB. I don't believe Schiit released anything at CES, but Jason Stoddard has come out and said they have a bunch of products slated for this year. I really doubt that these will include revisions to their current gen 2 amp lineup, so if you are interested in the Jotunheim or Vali 2, it's probably safe to go for them as well. I expect a number of the new items will be 2-channel gear (for speakers) and won't affect the personal audio lineup.

Well I know you know better than I. I'll just get over it and buy the vali 2 and modi multibit tomorrow.

 

I was thinking about buying a $46 tube, haha do you think that is a bad idea? Even if it has outstanding reviews? I imagine the tube in a hybrid tube doesn't do all that much, but still... I like it

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, DutchTexan said:

Well I know you know better than I. I'll just get over it and buy the vali 2 and modi multibit tomorrow.

 

I was thinking about buying a $46 tube, haha do you think that is a bad idea? Even if it has outstanding reviews? I imagine the tube in a hybrid tube doesn't do all that much, but still... I like it

 

Seems a bit pricey, but it's supposedly a decent tube.

[Dackzy]

@SSL I don't really understand the massive hype behind the HD650, yes they are well balanced and good, but I also find them a bit too dark for my taste. I think a lot of people are very baised when it comes to the HD650 and to talk about them as being "the be all end all". I do plan on adding them permanaly to my collection at some point, just to have something different.

Also I do think that planar headphones have plenty of punch in the bass, but that is again me, I am not a huge fan of a lot of bass.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

@SSL I don't really understand the massive hype behind the HD650, yes they are well balanced and good, but I also find them a bit too dark for my taste. I think a lot of people are very baised when it comes to the HD650 and to talk about them as being "the be all end all". I do plan on adding them permanaly to my collection at some point, just to have something different.

Also I do think that planar headphones have plenty of punch in the bass, but that is again me, I am not a huge fan of a lot of bass.

 

The HD 600 may be more neutral in terms of bass quantity, but the HD 650 being dark or veiled is a lie that continues to be believed. When the volume is set to the upper-mids (as it should be), the 650 is warm/mid-bassy, not dark. Remember, most headphones are WAY brighter than a good set of speakers. The HE-560 is forward and aggressive in comparison, and if such headphones are your point of reference, it's no wonder you don't like the 650 signature. Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course. However, the 600/650 upper midrange and treble are simply more tonally correct.

 

On bass, you're confusing impact with quantity. Not the same thing. Note that I said impact, not punch. The HD 650 happens to be punchy, as well as having impact.

[vanished]

Obviously any significant upset anywhere along the spectrum would sound bad but things I've personally noticed more than anything with poor gear is 1) an excess of mids (right around 1 kHz give or take) accompanied by completely absent bass and lacklustre highs, and 2) an excess of bass right around 120 Hz give or take, and then a serious lack of lower bass (50 Hz and below)

[Dackzy]

4 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

The HD 600 may be more neutral in terms of bass quantity, but the HD 650 being dark or veiled is a lie that continues to be believed. When the volume is set to the upper-mids (as it should be), the 650 is warm/mid-bassy, not dark. Remember, most headphones are WAY brighter than a good set of speakers. The HE-560 is forward and aggressive in comparison, and if such headphones are your point of reference, it's no wonder you don't like the 650 signature. Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course. However, the 600/650 upper midrange and treble are simply more tonally correct.

 

On bass, you're confusing impact with quantity. Not the same thing. Note that I said impact, not punch. The HD 650 happens to be punchy, as well as having impact.

Well I do not use the HE-560 as my reference point, I generally use all the headphones I have tried and liked, yes dark was a wrong term, but the warmth that the HD650 IMO is a bit too much, I do enjoy it from time to time. I do find the HD600 to be better, but that is personal prefererence. Yes a lot of headphones are much brighter than any good pair of speakers, which I am fully aware of, that was one of the first observations I made 4-5 years ago. All of my headphones are to some degree brighter than my Bronze 2's or my Argon A7460's, but then again I think it is wrong to compare speakers to headphones, since the listning experience is very different.

 

I generally prefer a tight bass, but not a lot of it, which IMO the HD650 walks a very very fine line for me atleast, which is again why I plan to add them to my collection at some point, just to get something different, that takes a very different stands on the audio, than what I am used to and generally prefer.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

but then again I think it is wrong to compare speakers to headphones, since the listning experience is very different.

 

Well that's convenient.  In fact, I would say the difference in listening experience is different is the point - with the drivers firing right into the ears, I do not want any peaks or brightness or aggression. Headphones have far greater potential for fatigue than speakers.

[Dackzy]

12 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

Well that's convenient.  In fact, I would say the difference in listening experience is different is the point - with the drivers firing right into the ears, I do not want any peaks or brightness or aggression. Headphones have far greater potential for fatigue than speakers.

I have just found that a lot of people tend enjoy different signatures when it comes to headphones vs speakers or be okay with different things. 

 

Yes headphones have far greater potential of fatigue, because the drivers are right up against your ear. With headphones you often notice the little flaws in them way easier than you do with speakers. 

[Guest Kloaked]

4 hours ago, Dackzy said:

@SSL I don't really understand the massive hype behind the HD650, yes they are well balanced and good, but I also find them a bit too dark for my taste. I think a lot of people are very baised when it comes to the HD650 and to talk about them as being "the be all end all". I do plan on adding them permanaly to my collection at some point, just to have something different.

Also I do think that planar headphones have plenty of punch in the bass, but that is again me, I am not a huge fan of a lot of bass.

I've had my HD650 since mid December or something like that. I haven't tried anything more expensive, or any planars to compare them against, but I used to own the ATH-M50, Superlux 681 Evo, currently own the HD280, SHP9500, Fidelio X2 and now the HD650. I can say with confidence that the best all around headphone for listening is the HD650. I can also say with confidence that the HD650 does really well for warmer/low-mid heavy music like metal (or properly mixed modern metal anyways) which is why I personally love them so much.

 

I don't think they'd be the end-all-be-all though. I would firstly like the exact same headphone just with better materials, and if there's a planar headphone that won't break within 6 months or so without any abuse at all that would have remotely the same frequency response with just a bit better low end response then I'm sold on whatever that is.

 

From what I've been researching, it's either one of the LCD models or the EL-8 open back from Audeze that would be that headphone for me, but if I'm going to invest that amount of money in a headphone I don't wanna have to worry about not getting any support for issues, or receiving bad units when I need a replacement.

 

I may try modding one of the TRP50 headphones.

[Dackzy]

38 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

I've had my HD650 since mid December or something like that. I haven't tried anything more expensive, or any planars to compare them against, but I used to own the ATH-M50, Superlux 681 Evo, currently own the HD280, SHP9500, Fidelio X2 and now the HD650. I can say with confidence that the best all around headphone for listening is the HD650. I can also say with confidence that the HD650 does really well for warmer/low-mid heavy music like metal (or properly mixed modern metal anyways) which is why I personally love them so much.

 

I don't think they'd be the end-all-be-all though. I would firstly like the exact same headphone just with better materials, and if there's a planar headphone that won't break within 6 months or so without any abuse at all that would have remotely the same frequency response with just a bit better low end response then I'm sold on whatever that is.

 

From what I've been researching, it's either one of the LCD models or the EL-8 open back from Audeze that would be that headphone for me, but if I'm going to invest that amount of money in a headphone I don't wanna have to worry about not getting any support for issues, or receiving bad units when I need a replacement.

 

I may try modding one of the TRP50 headphones.

okay? I don't think they are the best all around headphone, mostly because I don't enjoy a warm sound that much. This is all about personal preference, some people like the warmer sound, while other like me don't. I had them for a week a year back or something like that and yes they were good, but not my taste. I am far from trying to harmer them down, but I do think that a lot of people overhype them. I am buying them when I find a good deal, just because I find it very interresting to have headphones with so different takes on how the music should sound. That is also why I own so many different headphones and try as many headphones that I can.

 

Well I have had my HE 560 for a year now, nothing broken. I have so far been lucky from what I hear, but the thing with planar is that they are prone to have a upper mid spike, which for some people is a huge deal, not so much for me. I have the Focus A Pads (which helps a lot with the spike) and a lot of my music doesn't really have vocals in that range or a loud instrument.

[Guest Kloaked]

8 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

okay? I don't think they are the best all around headphone, mostly because I don't enjoy a warm sound that much. This is all about personal preference, some people like the warmer sound, while other like me don't. I had them for a week a year back or something like that and yes they were good, but not my taste. I am far from trying to harmer them down, but I do think that a lot of people overhype them. I am buying them when I find a good deal, just because I find it very interresting to have headphones with so different takes on how the music should sound. That is also why I own so many different headphones and try as many headphones that I can.

 

Well I have had my HE 560 for a year now, nothing broken. I have so far been lucky from what I hear, but the thing with planar is that they are prone to have a upper mid spike, which for some people is a huge deal, not so much for me. I have the Focus A Pads (which helps a lot with the spike) and a lot of my music doesn't really have vocals in that range or a loud instrument.

Well I felt the same way about the Fidelio X2 hype, even after I gave in and bought them. They're really good headphones in how they sound and as far as build quality goes (fuckin amazing build quality), but they don't do certain music justice, such as heavy music as I discovered whenever I got the HD650.

 

I do think there's merit to the whole subjective argument, but I think it has more to do with other things than just personal preference. For example, I know for a fact that my HD280 objectively sounds better than Monster headphones, yet the people I played in a band with some years ago tried them and said they sounded like garbage. Now, I told them beforehand that my headphones would probably sound better for mixing our music since it would be more closer to what everything actually sounded like rather than the ultra colored sound in a Monster headphone. I firmly believe that both being used to that god awful v-curve and hearing me say "these sound better than what you have" made them form the opinion that my HD280 sounds like garbage.

 

My dad is the same way about his truck radio. I'll have to drive it sometimes and I notice the radio treble is peaking and creates annoying sibilance. I'll turn it down to something close to flat with just a hair of treble gain and everything sounds fine again.

 

I don't know the "science" behind it, but I cannot understand how people get to where they think ultra treble and bass sounds good when it absolutely drowns out everything else, creates sibilance, etc.

 

But I said all of that to say this: maybe you had a preconception about the headphone already due to the hype you read/heard about and I think more and more people are just rolling their eyes at hype now - then couple that with your tastes. Of course you won't like the HD650 all that much.

 

Also, not saying your opinion is absolutely wrong since that's dumb to say. I am with you on the HD650 not being the "best" all around headphone ever or the end-all-be-all "end game" for anyone. I do think they deserve a lot of credit though even though there's hype around it - the hype shouldn't nullify anything about the headphone.

[spwath]

5 hours ago, Dackzy said:

Well I do not use the HE-560 as my reference point, I generally use all the headphones I have tried and liked, yes dark was a wrong term, but the warmth that the HD650 IMO is a bit too much, I do enjoy it from time to time. I do find the HD600 to be better, but that is personal prefererence. Yes a lot of headphones are much brighter than any good pair of speakers, which I am fully aware of, that was one of the first observations I made 4-5 years ago. All of my headphones are to some degree brighter than my Bronze 2's or my Argon A7460's, but then again I think it is wrong to compare speakers to headphones, since the listning experience is very different.

 

I generally prefer a tight bass, but not a lot of it, which IMO the HD650 walks a very very fine line for me atleast, which is again why I plan to add them to my collection at some point, just to get something different, that takes a very different stands on the audio, than what I am used to and generally prefer.

I would also like to point oout the mod I linked earlier in this thread that makes them much more neutral, like an HD600 but better.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dackzy said:

okay? I don't think they are the best all around headphone, mostly because I don't enjoy a warm sound that much. This is all about personal preference, some people like the warmer sound, while other like me don't. I had them for a week a year back or something like that and yes they were good, but not my taste. I am far from trying to harmer them down, but I do think that a lot of people overhype them. I am buying them when I find a good deal, just because I find it very interresting to have headphones with so different takes on how the music should sound. That is also why I own so many different headphones and try as many headphones that I can.

 

Well I have had my HE 560 for a year now, nothing broken. I have so far been lucky from what I hear, but the thing with planar is that they are prone to have a upper mid spike, which for some people is a huge deal, not so much for me. I have the Focus A Pads (which helps a lot with the spike) and a lot of my music doesn't really have vocals in that range or a loud instrument.

 

42 minutes ago, spwath said:

I would also like to point oout the mod I linked earlier in this thread that makes them much more neutral, like an HD600 but better.

 

Exactly. HD 600 or HD 650 modded. Done, no warmth.

 

The "hype", such as it is, is warranted when you recall how much the HD 6x0 cost and how much it does well.

[Dackzy]

1 hour ago, spwath said:

I would also like to point oout the mod I linked earlier in this thread that makes them much more neutral, like an HD600 but better.

I may or may not want to do that mod. Depends on how different experience I want...

[DutchTexan]

It's my birthday guys! I'm going to order a Vali 2 and Modi Multibit when I get home. ((Now would be the time to construct a convincing argument for/against the Vali 2, Valhalla 2 and/or Lyr 2)for a first-timing audio noob)

 

I have a bunch of questions about cables in the mean time. I want to make my own hd600 to 1/4" cable. I also want to make my own RCA cables similar to the Schiit PYST cables.

 

I know I will need HD600 connectors, (are there better hd600/650 connectors for less?) so that's a relatively easy decision. Other than that, I am pretty much lost... which cable should I buy for my 600's to 1/4" and for 2 very short RCA cables? Which specific RCA connectors should I buy? What is the absolute best solder for this application?

 

It would be nice if I could buy everything from the same website.

 

RCA connectors: I was thinking 4 of these or these (they don't need to be colored L or R because the 2 cables are going to be 6 inches long, or shorter)

 

RCA cables: I was thinking about 15" of this cable?

 

Headphone cable: I was thinking 12' of this for my 600's to 1/4" cable? But it seems like a bad idea because I don't know how I am going to do the split for the left and right channel and put in a cable strain. There has to some forum guide to this somewhere?

 

Headphone connector: Amazon?

 

It would be really cool if someone could go to some America website and link me everything I should buy. Or post a simple forum or YouTube guide. OR just tell me it's all a waste of time and effort, just buy the PYST cables for $20 with my amp and dac and pay $35 for the official HD650 cable on Amazon.

 

I'm probably going to order this $13 tube, this $46 tube and this $24 tube in the future, after I have gotten used to my new set up.

 

12 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

noticed more than anything with poor gear is 1) an excess of mids (right around 1 kHz give or take) accompanied by completely absent bass and lacklustre highs, and 2) an excess of bass right around 120 Hz give or take, and then a serious lack of lower bass (50 Hz and below)

I would say, even with my lack of experience, I can agree with what I think you are talking about as the tattle tale signs of a crumby audio. I've noticed that cheap headsets, earbuds and headphones sound like they don't care about the opposite ends of the frequency spectrum. All the attention is in the mid range, which is still awful. Muffled and muddy on a slightly exponential curve, almost, is that a good way to describe it?

 

 

11 hours ago, Dackzy said:

the warmth that the HD650 IMO is a bit too much, I do enjoy it from time to time. I do find the HD600 to be better, but that is personal prefererence.

 

I generally prefer a tight bass, but not a lot of it, which IMO the HD650 walks a very very fine line for me atleast, which is again why I plan to add them to my collection at some point, just to get something different

So, then you actually prefer the 600's but you'd rather own the 650's for verity? From what I have read, my 600's are supposed to sound a tiny bit more neutral, which I dont understand based off the frequency response. While the 650's have a little more bass and wider sound stage. Haha but this is pretty much just an opionon from someone from somewhere on the internet that I am just repeating. I'm very much a beginner to the whole audio world.

 

There are other headphones I like, but I figure if I buy another pair soon they need to be 1) a lot different than my 600's or 2) just flat out better in every single way.

 

 

8 hours ago, Kloaked said:

I've had my HD650 since mid December or something like that. I haven't tried anything more expensive, or any planars to compare them against, but I used to own the ATH-M50, Superlux 681 Evo, currently own the HD280, SHP9500, Fidelio X2 and now the HD650. I can say with confidence that the best all around headphone for listening is the HD650. I can also say with confidence that the HD650 does really well for warmer/low-mid heavy music like metal (or properly mixed modern metal anyways) which is why I personally love them so much.

I've owned my 600's since October 9th. I still have next to 0 experience with anything really worth a comparison. I've heard my friends 650's for a little under 20 minutes, that's about as close as it gets.

 

I'm still using onboard sound, and things havent been all that different. I didnt notice a differnece between my 600s and then ~20mins with the 650's. Then again, the 650's were being powered by a weak sauce portable amp/dac. So, I imagine that's about equivalent to my on board sound.

 

I've looked into that other forum that I cant remember who linked. I think I am going to do one of the extra dampening mods, sometime in the future.

 

BTW those green 650's seriously look badass. There's something about neon green and black... timeless hah

 

 

6 hours ago, spwath said:

I would also like to point oout the mod I linked earlier in this thread that makes them much more neutral, like an HD600 but better.

Haha you're the guy that I cant remember. Thanks for that link! There's a bunch of good information there. I tried looking around for a cable mod/building portion, but I must not have been looking hard enough. I'm going to do the dampening one you just mentioned. I wonder how much I will be able to tell the difference.

 

 

5 hours ago, SSL said:

Exactly. HD 600 or HD 650 modded. 

 

The "hype", such as it is, is warranted when you recall how much the HD 6x0 cost and how much it does well.

What about a HD600 modded?  They might really turn into something.

 

I think people just like to go against the grain. Not that it is a bad thing. I'd rather not be surrounded by yes-men. I got my 600's for 280ish dollars in October. Every now and then I see them on Amazon for more than the 650's? That's gotta mean something!

[Dackzy]

8 hours ago, DutchTexan said:

So, then you actually prefer the 600's but you'd rather own the 650's for verity? From what I have read, my 600's are supposed to sound a tiny bit more neutral, which I dont understand based off the frequency response. While the 650's have a little more bass and wider sound stage. Haha but this is pretty much just an opionon from someone from somewhere on the internet that I am just repeating. I'm very much a beginner to the whole audio world.

yep, because I like to hear different takes on audio, I already own a couple of "neutral" headphones, so I don't see the point in buying more. I think that I am done buying headphones when I get the HD650 and the SHR1540, since then I would own a pretty good range of headphones with very different signatures. The only other headphone I really want is the AKG K1000, but I am not getting those any time soon.

 

The best advice I can give you is to try a lot of different headphones and SSL has links to a lot of good videos, that really explain a lot of the BS that goes around in the audio community.

 

I think it is very interesting to hear different views on how the music should sound, but I can also get a bit nerdy when it comes to audio.